shibuya Posted January 15, 2014 Posted January 15, 2014 I would say Kelly gets unfairly downgraded here because of fears that we are "homers," and elsewhere because he never won a Super Bowl. But because he started the "hurry up" offense that is used by everyone now, I think he belongs in the conversation. Also, any other QB get to 4 straight Super Bowls. NOPE. Winning a conference is very hard to do, I think that gets overlooked when discussing Kelly. actually the no huddle became a base offense with the Cincinnati Bengals just before Kelly and the Bills implemented it. and Kelly is not a top 5 all time QB.. probably not even top 10...... some wheres in the top 25 arguably
KOKBILLS Posted January 15, 2014 Posted January 15, 2014 actually the no huddle became a base offense with the Cincinnati Bengals just before Kelly and the Bills implemented it. and Kelly is not a top 5 all time QB.. probably not even top 10...... some wheres in the top 25 arguably Arguably? What? Did he forget to leave you a tip once or something? I'd say considering the fact that there's only something like 23 modern era QB's in the NFL HOF Kelly safely fits somewhere in that 25... And yes, Cincy did run a version of the no huddle before the Bills implemented their version...But it was not the same animal...It's like saying a Zebra is a Horse because they kinda look the same...Kelly took the no huddle to a place no one has seen before...And after Marchibroda left Kelly also was basically the OC...called his own plays, etc...So...
EasternOHBillsFan Posted January 15, 2014 Posted January 15, 2014 How about Joe Willie Namath. He dominated his era and so far I haven't even seen a mention. He could flat out sling it. And his win in the SB gave the AFC the credibility that led to the merger. His career stats are terrible... he had one shining moment, like Doug Williams or Mark Rypien.
YoloinOhio Posted January 15, 2014 Posted January 15, 2014 Dan Marino Joe Montana Peyton Manning Tom Brady Troy Aikman In whatever order, I have no idea who is the best. I would go with Montana, I guess.
RuntheDamnBall Posted January 15, 2014 Posted January 15, 2014 Dan Marino Joe Montana Peyton Manning Tom Brady Troy Aikman In whatever order, I have no idea who is the best. I would go with Montana, I guess. Aikman, really? Johnny Unitas wants to come slap you from the grave.
YoloinOhio Posted January 15, 2014 Posted January 15, 2014 Aikman, really? Johnny Unitas wants to come slap you from the grave. JMO And I never saw Unitas play, so can only use my perspective.
C.Biscuit97 Posted January 15, 2014 Posted January 15, 2014 Arguably? What? Did he forget to leave you a tip once or something? I'd say considering the fact that there's only something like 23 modern era QB's in the NFL HOF Kelly safely fits somewhere in that 25... And yes, Cincy did run a version of the no huddle before the Bills implemented their version...But it was not the same animal...It's like saying a Zebra is a Horse because they kinda look the same...Kelly took the no huddle to a place no one has seen before...And after Marchibroda left Kelly also was basically the OC...called his own plays, etc...So... Jim Kelly rightfully is a legend in Buffalo. but let's be honest. He's a bit overrated here. 9-8 playoff record (a team stat but that's how you judge the great ones) http://6thring.com/nfl-qb-playoff-record-roethlisberger-brady-manning.html I also do think it's worth noting that Reich came in and there wasn't that much of a falloff.
RuntheDamnBall Posted January 15, 2014 Posted January 15, 2014 JMO And I never saw Unitas play, so can only use my perspective. Fair 'nuff, I also don't presume to know more than those who have seen them, I just have seen enough NFL Films - and enough of Aikman - to not call Troy one of the top 5. Not even in my lifetime, I think. Excellent QB for a great team, but not top 5.
jumbalaya Posted January 15, 2014 Posted January 15, 2014 My top 5: 1. Montana - Most amazing QB I have ever seen, he made plays happen i never thought were possible back then. 2. Brady/Mannin -- not doing the debate so tied for 2, def 2 the best ever. 4. Marino --- Guy had the fastest release I have ever seen. 5. Kelly --- He was snake bit by facinf some of the best D the league ever seen, and he started the hurry up that almost every team uses The hurry up was started in Cincinnati. The great ones get over snake bites.
YoloinOhio Posted January 15, 2014 Posted January 15, 2014 Fair 'nuff, I also don't presume to know more than those who have seen them, I just have seen enough NFL Films - and enough of Aikman - to not call Troy one of the top 5. Not even in my lifetime, I think. Excellent QB for a great team, but not top 5. I haven't watched much NFL Films. As far as Kelly, I would put him in the top 10 for those I have seen play.
Alphadawg7 Posted January 15, 2014 Posted January 15, 2014 Peyton is NOT in the top 5 unless he can win the SB this year. He has been one and done waaaaaaay too much in the playoffs, and on teams that lost only a couple games in the reg season. I would take Kurt Warner and Brady over him in the payoffs all day long.
garbag3man Posted January 15, 2014 Posted January 15, 2014 DYlan, DYlan, DYlan, DYlan, & DYlan. Because he spits hot fire!
C.Biscuit97 Posted January 15, 2014 Posted January 15, 2014 DYlan, DYlan, DYlan, DYlan, & DYlan. Because he spits hot fire! Peyton is NOT in the top 5 unless he can win the SB this year. He has been one and done waaaaaaay too much in the playoffs, and on teams that lost only a couple games in the reg season. I would take Kurt Warner and Brady over him in the payoffs all day long. Agreed about the playoffs part but he is so good in the regular season, he has to be top 5. Greatest regular season QB ever. Now, he needs to work on the playoffs.
Rob's House Posted January 15, 2014 Posted January 15, 2014 I find it hard to compare guys from the 60s to guys from today because so much about the game has changed. Not only are the skills required to succeed at QB vastly different today from what they were at that time, but the level of competition has increased exponentially. Johnny Unitis may have been the greatest QB ever relative to the competition in his day and time, but can you really say definitively that he'd dominate in today's game? And by contrast, would the top QBs today thrive under the old rules? That's why I think Marino and Favre are vastly underrated. Their stats from the the previous century would still be respectable by todays standards and they were the only ones putting up those numbers back then. And in the case of Favre, by putting up his best statistical season ever at the age of 39 he proved that his game translates. I don't think any top 5 list is complete without these guys. Jim Kelly rightfully is a legend in Buffalo. but let's be honest. He's a bit overrated here. 9-8 playoff record (a team stat but that's how you judge the great ones) http://6thring.com/n...dy-manning.html I also do think it's worth noting that Reich came in and there wasn't that much of a falloff. I agree with your point about Kelly, but no, that is not how I judge the great ones. I try to base that on a totality of the circumstances analysis as best I can.
YoloinOhio Posted January 15, 2014 Posted January 15, 2014 Agreed about the playoffs part but he is so good in the regular season, he has to be top 5. Greatest regular season QB ever. Now, he needs to work on the playoffs. He made the playoffs every year except one that he played. The year he didn't play, his team all of a sudden fell from playoff caliber to 2-14. Brady missed one year and his team went to 11-5. I think Peyton's teams were not as strong in other areas and he made them better. I think Brady's teams were built for the playoffs and he elevated them, but not so much that they fell apart without him. I don't take away anything Brady did, but I think Peyton is so good because he carried teams.
C.Biscuit97 Posted January 15, 2014 Posted January 15, 2014 I find it hard to compare guys from the 60s to guys from today because so much about the game has changed. Not only are the skills required to succeed at QB vastly different today from what they were at that time, but the level of competition has increased exponentially. Johnny Unitis may have been the greatest QB ever relative to the competition in his day and time, but can you really say definitively that he'd dominate in today's game? And by contrast, would the top QBs today thrive under the old rules? That's why I think Marino and Favre are vastly underrated. Their stats from the the previous century would still be respectable by todays standards and they were the only ones putting up those numbers back then. And in the case of Favre, by putting up his best statistical season ever at the age of 39 he proved that his game translates. I don't think any top 5 list is complete without these guys. I agree with your point about Kelly, but no, that is not how I judge the great ones. I try to base that on a totality of the circumstances analysis as best I can. Good points. And you're right about Farve. People hold the retirement stuff against him. He was a Vikings meltdown from taking 2 different teams to the playoffs. He has gone from overrated to underrated. Love watching him.
Alphadawg7 Posted January 15, 2014 Posted January 15, 2014 (edited) Agreed about the playoffs part but he is so good in the regular season, he has to be top 5. Greatest regular season QB ever. Now, he needs to work on the playoffs. Totally 100% agree about greatest reg season QB ever. But even so, these guys play for championships and his post reason record is not good enough to make him top 5 over guys that did it in reg and post season. He wins it all this year, I will be ok ranking him in top 5...not until then though. His teams were way more talented than other teams that beat him in playoffs way too often. Brady has had no where near the talent around him that Peyton has had and he has 3 rings and 5 trips. So Peyton needs to go out and earn his spot in the post season for me. Edited January 15, 2014 by Alphadawg7
C.Biscuit97 Posted January 15, 2014 Posted January 15, 2014 He made the playoffs every year except one that he played. The year he didn't play, his team all of a sudden fell from playoff caliber to 2-14. Brady missed one year and his team went to 11-5. I think Peyton's teams were not as strong in other areas and he made them better. I think Brady's teams were built for the playoffs and he elevated them, but not so much that they fell apart without him. I don't take away anything Brady did, but I think Peyton is so good because he carried teams. Fair points but Manning had so much more offensive talent on his teams. The Colts always used their 1st round picks on skill players. Before Gronk, Brady really only had a thought to be washed up Moss. His wrs and rbs (minus one good Dillion season) have been hot garbage. And as I mentioned in other thread, the Pats lost 5 games more without Brady. Also, Matt Cassel isn't great, but he did make a pro bowl and lead another team to the playoffs. He was a much better QB than Painter or whoever else the Colts have. The bigger point might be that Polian basically built a one man team.
BuffaloBillsMagic1 Posted January 15, 2014 Posted January 15, 2014 I go back a long ways so here is my top ones: 1. Montana; classic 2. Peyton: could make a case for #1, but played in a dome so he had an advantage for most of career 3. Johnny Unitis: Guys was tops in his time 4. Tom Brady: A lot of big games and years 5. Sonny Jurgensen: Whip like arm and was great on mediocre Redskin teams
KOKBILLS Posted January 15, 2014 Posted January 15, 2014 (edited) Jim Kelly rightfully is a legend in Buffalo. but let's be honest. He's a bit overrated here. 9-8 playoff record (a team stat but that's how you judge the great ones) http://6thring.com/n...dy-manning.html I also do think it's worth noting that Reich came in and there wasn't that much of a falloff. A bit overrated here sure...This is a Buffalo Bills message board...But arguably top 25? Come on... I'm pretty sure Jim Kelly is firmly entrenched in the Top 25 conversation...Likely entrenched in the top 15...Arguably top 10... Edited January 15, 2014 by KOKBILLS
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