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Posted

 

 

Fair enough, but you might as well round it out with Otto Graham then. He took the Browns to 10 straight championship games and won 7 of them. That's crazy.

 

Graham's QB Rating is also absolutely sick for his time. You are talking about when tackles could not extend arms and night train lane was free to behead your receiver before the ball got there.

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Posted

Brady

 

after Him it does not matter, he is in a class all on his own. He has done it with different playes, over many years with cast aways from other teams. Makes everyone around him accountable and he still hass 5 years left to play.

 

for the record I hate the Patrioits, I am a Bills fan, I am happy I got to watch him playeven if it meant beating the Bills all those years. Greatness does not come around that often, just enjoy it.

Posted

Brady

 

after Him it does not matter, he is in a class all on his own. He has done it with different playes, over many years with cast aways from other teams. Makes everyone around him accountable and he still hass 5 years left to play.

 

for the record I hate the Patrioits, I am a Bills fan, I am happy I got to watch him playeven if it meant beating the Bills all those years. Greatness does not come around that often, just enjoy it.

 

I give Brady his due credit...there's one thing that bothers me: why hasn't the team won a Superbowl since he's been the focal point of the offense?

 

Think about that: when they were a running team with a great defense, a Brady was a game manager, throwing to David Givens, David Patten, and Troy Brown, they won 3 Superbowls. When they were an offensive juggernaut with Brady slinging the ball all over and throwing to Moss, Welker, Gronkowski, Hernandez, etc...no Superbowls.

 

Odd.

Posted (edited)

I give Brady his due credit...there's one thing that bothers me: why hasn't the team won a Superbowl since he's been the focal point of the offense?

 

Think about that: when they were a running team with a great defense, a Brady was a game manager, throwing to David Givens, David Patten, and Troy Brown, they won 3 Superbowls. When they were an offensive juggernaut with Brady slinging the ball all over and throwing to Moss, Welker, Gronkowski, Hernandez, etc...no Superbowls.

 

Odd.

 

I would argue that he was always more than a game manager with maybe the exception of his rookie year. He made plays in the passing game, and made them when they counted. Led lots of game winning drives.

 

The simple answer is that he has had literally no defensive help since he last won a SB. And the year they went undefeated, it took a miracle play by Manning followed by a bigger miracle catch on the side of a helmet by a guy who wasnt even good enough to make the roster the next year despite his SB heroics. Then he lost again with one of the worst defenses in the league because Welker dropped a key pass and more importantly, Eli made a near impossible throw to Manningham who made a near impossible catch.

 

It not for a couple of fluke plays, he would have 5 rings. I get it, he lost still...but he did MORE than enough for the Pats to win those games, the Pats just had a couple of incredible plays go against them.

 

I will never say Brady is best ever because I watched Montana and he was hands down the best. But Brady is hard not to rank #2 and if he wins it this year, he IMO is hands down #2.

 

Manning isnt even top 5 at this point. He is the greatest REGULAR season QB of all time, but he has a terrible playoff record and I would take Kurt Warner to win a big game over Manning any day of the week and twice on Sundays. If he can win it all this year, then I can accept a top 5 rating...but with all the stacked teams he has had just to be one and one in the playoffs is unacceptable for a guy thats supposed to be as good as he is.

Edited by Alphadawg7
Posted

I give Brady his due credit...there's one thing that bothers me: why hasn't the team won a Superbowl since he's been the focal point of the offense?

 

Think about that: when they were a running team with a great defense, a Brady was a game manager, throwing to David Givens, David Patten, and Troy Brown, they won 3 Superbowls. When they were an offensive juggernaut with Brady slinging the ball all over and throwing to Moss, Welker, Gronkowski, Hernandez, etc...no Superbowls.

 

Odd.

TOP. During those the first 3 Super Bowls the Pats put together long plodding drives and moved the chains. Somehow they always had the last possession. During the 2 they lost they had an offense that could score as fast as they pleased. Not unlike a Bills team from the early 90s that didn't eat much clock and ran into a tough Giants defense.

 

Its also hard to ignore that Brady not only lost 2 Super Bowls where the Pats were heavy favorites, but lost 2 to the same QB. Would we hold Montana in such high regard if he lost 2 Super Bowls to John Elway's little brother?

Posted

I always wonder whether the greats of the 80s and 90s like Montana would be nearly as good in today's game, with free agency and less stacked teams.

 

Imagine Montana without Jerry Rice, John Taylor, Roger Craig, Brent Jones, and a ridiculous defense.

 

I just doubt that he would have the same success if you put him on the Patriots, throwing to Julian Edelman and Aaron Dobson....

Dont forget though..He won his first Super Bowl with Dwight Clark Freddie Soloman and old and beaten up Russ Francis and Paul cofer...What is the defintion of a "Great QB'

 

Championships? Stats? Leadership? I think they play the game for Championships...SO ill throw a lil of each in my top 5

 

 

 

Montana

Elway

Brady

Bradshaw

Staubach

Posted

+3

 

You all are agreeing with 27 on this. My question why not Elway?:

 

I can't get past the top 4...I'm going with:

 

Johnny U

Joe Montana

Peyton Manning

Tom Brady

 

Then I believe there's a huge drop off before you get to anyone else.

Posted

Before 1980: Johnny Unitas, Bart Starr, Otto Graham

1980-2000: Marino, Kelly, Young, Montana, Elway

2000- :Brady, P. Manning, Brees

I agree that you have to break it up into time frames. We may be on the cusp of a new era with mobile guys like Newton, Wilson, Kaepernick, RG3, etc. Speaking of mobile guys, what about Fran Tarkenton?
Posted (edited)

Brady* everyone, Brady*

 

Take away those spygate superbowls and he's this era's Jim Kelly but yes he is probably in the top 5 all time even so. He's still a gamer.

Edited by The Wiz
Posted

I can't believe we are 3 pages deep and only two people have mentioned Brett Favre. I can't think of a player who ever tarnished their image more than that guy his last few years in the NFL. If he would've just retired and stuck to it the first time he announced it while he was with Green Bay I have a feeling he would be on the majority of people's top 5 lists. I'm certainly not saying he is #1 but he has to at least rank #4 or #5 but his prime years were so long ago now that I just think people go by his later years in the NFL(which there were a lot of since he played for such a long time) but in the mid to late 90s there was nobody better. Tough as nails too

Posted

+2

 

 

And somewhere you have to include Kurt Warner in this mix if you include Young Elway Marino or Kelly

 

Agreed. Kurt Warner, at his best, may have been the best. He was fun to watch. Getting that cardinal team to SB was a masterpiece painted by one of the best.

Posted (edited)

I can't believe we are 3 pages deep and only two people have mentioned Brett Favre. I can't think of a player who ever tarnished their image more than that guy his last few years in the NFL. If he would've just retired and stuck to it the first time he announced it while he was with Green Bay I have a feeling he would be on the majority of people's top 5 lists. I'm certainly not saying he is #1 but he has to at least rank #4 or #5 but his prime years were so long ago now that I just think people go by his later years in the NFL(which there were a lot of since he played for such a long time) but in the mid to late 90s there was nobody better. Tough as nails too

 

The 'gunslinger' cliche is among the worst and yet most hearalded in football; where the qb who is careless with the ball (Farve), or oblivious to his limitations as a thrower (Fitz) are widely praised despite the harm they inflict on their team. No way Farve is top 5.

Edited by Wayne Fontes
Posted

The 'gunslinger' cliche is among the worst and yet most hearalded in football; where the qb who is careless with the ball (Farve), or oblivious to his limitations as a thrower (Fitz) are widely praised despite the harm they inflict on their team. No way Farve is top 5.

Not that I'm saying he could qualify as a top 5 but his career and career stats at least merit the suggestion.

Posted

I always wonder whether the greats of the 80s and 90s like Montana would be nearly as good in today's game, with free agency and less stacked teams.

 

Imagine Montana without Jerry Rice, John Taylor, Roger Craig, Brent Jones, and a ridiculous defense.

 

I just doubt that he would have the same success if you put him on the Patriots, throwing to Julian Edelman and Aaron Dobson....

And to be fair, Tom Brady has not had much success throwing to the likes of Edleman and Dobson.....Brady has had a pretty average season this year. Their running game has simply kicked into a different gear.

Posted (edited)

I was wondering if we've ever had a rivalry like Brady-Manning. I can't see one that is this good - meeting for the fourth time in the postseason, third time in the AFC Championship game. Two of the top five quarterbacks of all time.

 

But, then I was wondering who would be the consensus top 5? I would think the nominees are:

Otto Graham

Johnny Unitas

Joe Montana

John Elway

Dan Marino

Steve Young (may not have had enough years as starting QB, but I believe he is still top rated QB ever)

Peyton Manning

Tom Brady

 

Some may think Staubach, Favre and maybe somebody else should be in there, as well.

 

Favre is junk and has zero business on any such list. All-time TD pass leader - true - and the all-time INTERCEPTION thrower too. He doesn't even remotely compare.

 

Peyton's problem is that he has generally not been good in the playoffs - and specifically he was carried by his team to his one Super Bowl win. Marino had little playoff success, but his teams weren't that good.

 

I think the OP was pretty close - but I'd put Sammy Baugh up there for:

 

Johnny Unitas

Joe Montana

Sammy Baugh

Otto Graham

Tom Brady

 

John Elway/Dan Marino both just miss.

Edited by BobChalmers
Posted

 

You all are agreeing with 27 on this. My question why not Elway?:

 

I can't get past the top 4...I'm going with:

 

Johnny U

Joe Montana

Peyton Manning

Tom Brady

 

 

I put Elway with Marino on that next level down (not a huge gap, to me). I think Elway was great! Just not quite at that magical level (Manning might fall a bit short of the others there too, actually).

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