Kelly the Dog Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 Maybe Pettine didn't fight for him at all on the Bills, and Dreisbach isn't all that great a LB, he was just a guy that knew Pettine's defense and Pettine figured that if he couldn't get an obviously better guy because he doesn't know any and 30 positions were already taken, and O'Neil was taking the DC job not Lbs, that Dreisbach just made sense, not that he was a guy Pettine loved and Marrone didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 the first team i build are guys i trust and understand me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 (edited) Maybe Pettine didn't fight for him at all on the Bills, and Dreisbach isn't all that great a LB, he was just a guy that knew Pettine's defense and Pettine figured that if he couldn't get an obviously better guy because he doesn't know any and 30 positions were already taken, and O'Neil was taking the DC job not Lbs, that Dreisbach just made sense, not that he was a guy Pettine loved and Marrone didn't. Pretty much.. thank you. Dreisbach was out of football last year, had only college experience before that and was a.. what is that term some of ya'll out there like so much... "crony" of Pettine. So the run D was bad, here was a guy Pettine had brought in with no previous NFL experience, and Marrone basically called it like he saw it. Pettine was more than happy to give the guy a job because he knows what he is going to get, he;s OK with that for now, and he had much more important openings to worry about in a short period of time. A known commodity is sometimes better than the alternative, even if you think you could do better (if you had the time). Edited January 29, 2014 by YoloinOhio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 Maybe Pettine didn't fight for him at all on the Bills, and Dreisbach isn't all that great a LB, he was just a guy that knew Pettine's defense and Pettine figured that if he couldn't get an obviously better guy because he doesn't know any and 30 positions were already taken, and O'Neil was taking the DC job not Lbs, that Dreisbach just made sense, not that he was a guy Pettine loved and Marrone didn't. Pettine doesn't know any other guy who can coach at LB? Yeah, maybe... Pretty much.. thank you. Dreisbach was out of football last year, had only college experience before that and was a.. what is that term some of ya'll out there like so much... "crony" of Pettine. So the run D was bad, here was a guy Pettine had brought in with no previous NFL experience, and Marrone basically called it like he saw it. Pettine was more than happy to give the guy a job because he knows what he is going to get, he;s OK with that for now, and he had much more important openings to worry about in a short period of time. A known commodity is sometimes better than the alternative, even if you think you could do better (if you had the time). The Bills run D was so bad that Pettine hired not one, but both of the Bills former LB coaches (one filling the "important opening" of DC) on his staff in Cleveland? Pretzel logic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 (edited) Pettine doesn't know any other guy who can coach at LB? Yeah, maybe... The Bills run D was so bad that Pettine hired not one, but both of the Bills former LB coaches (one filling the "important opening" of DC) on his staff in Cleveland? Pretzel logic. It was just as bad with the Jet in 2012 and he brought O'Neil and Weaver with him. The Jets improved significantly in that area, after they left. Edited January 29, 2014 by YoloinOhio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 It was just as bad with the Jet in 2012 and he brought O'Neil and Weaver with him. The Jets improved significantly in that area, after they left. Be that as it may, he brought them anyway. He must think they are worth having, unless you (to be consistent) think Marrone would have fired O'Neil and Weaver also, had Pettine stayed in Buffalo. If Marrone was "calling it as he sees it", why would he have kept those coaches if they are as bad as you are implying (for the Jets and Buffalo)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 Well, there were available and he knows them. At this point, what difference does it make? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Doug Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 He alluded to the opposite, actually. How? By him saying he saying he "felt bad" for the Bills? Well, actions speak louder than words because he turned around and still left them high and dry. Sort of like when a girl breaks up with you and says "it's not you, it's me" Meaning: you're exactly why I'm breaking up with you. What he said in the media means nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 Be that as it may, he brought them anyway. He must think they are worth having, unless you (to be consistent) think Marrone would have fired O'Neil and Weaver also, had Pettine stayed in Buffalo. If Marrone was "calling it as he sees it", why would he have kept those coaches if they are as bad as you are implying (for the Jets and Buffalo)? I don't think he would have fired them. Why do I need to think that to be "consistent"? That doesn't mean they are the best out there, it means they weren't bad enough to be fired. I think he actually wanted to keep Weaver. Just because a coach isn't the best inthe league at their position doesn't mean they should be fired after a year. Why would he get rid of all of his defensive staff after one year? He felt it necessary to move on from, Dresibach... and not you, I or anyone else probably knows all of the details as to why or what happened. So it doesn't make him a "scapegoat." They were each evaluated separately. We can look at Kiko, for Dreisbach, and as a fan say - good! Or the other two ILBs and say - bad! But that it way too simplistic and the overall evaluation of a coach is more than we would ever know. I was simply pointing out that you say "they were good enough for Pettine to take with him/rehire." That doesn't mean they were the best for the Bills. They were his guys. And there really aren't any other cases to compare it to because this is such a unique situation (because of the Browns). Again, it seems to me (just as an observer), he really tried to keep Weaver, O'Neil would have been fine, and the rest he helped pack. How? By him saying he saying he "felt bad" for the Bills? Well, actions speak louder than words because he turned around and still left them high and dry. Sort of like when a girl breaks up with you and says "it's not you, it's me" Meaning: you're exactly why I'm breaking up with you. What he said in the media means nothing. OK... so you assume he was lying? He didn't leave them high and dry, it was a combination of him wanting the guys he brought with him/hired and those guys wanting to leave, so Marrone let them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Doug Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 So the theory is that Pettine took the Browns job...because he felt unwelcomed and unappreciated after Dreisbach was fired by Marrone? Um, no. He took the job because they (had almost no choice but to) offered it to him and you strike while the iron is hot. He had no choice? Of course he did. He could have continue to shape a very talented defense on an up and coming team (we are lead to believe) or he could have took the HC job of a team who just fired their last HC after just one year (there is almost no precedence for this happening in the NFL). As for striking when the iron's hot; I know, you know, and every on this board knows that if Pettine continued to improve this defense, he would have been the leading HC candidate going into next offseason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodeMonkey Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 (edited) He had no choice? Of course he did. He could have continue to shape a very talented defense on an up and coming team (we are lead to believe) or he could have took the HC job of a team who just fired their last HC after just one year (there is almost no precedence for this happening in the NFL). As for striking when the iron's hot; I know, you know, and every on this board knows that if Pettine continued to improve this defense, he would have been the leading HC candidate going into next offseason. Maybe Pettine liked the situation there. Good defensive talent already in place. Got to bring "his guys" with him. Lots of early round draft picks so if there is a QB they love they almost certainly can work a trade to get him and still have picks left to start assembling a supporting cast. He might like the situation in Cleveland and figured he probably wouldn't do any better than that next year so why wait. Plus I think when he said "no choice" Doc was referring to the Browns. Edited January 29, 2014 by CodeMonkey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 Pettine doesn't know any other guy who can coach at LB? Yeah, maybe... I meant, obviously, that he doesn't know a guy well enough, like has coached with him before, who doesn't already have a job, combined with the fact the new guy would have to learn the defensive scheme, to make him a clearly better choice and coach than the mediocre Dreisbach who already knows the scheme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 I don't think he would have fired them. Why do I need to think that to be "consistent"? That doesn't mean they are the best out there, it means they weren't bad enough to be fired. I think he actually wanted to keep Weaver. Just because a coach isn't the best inthe league at their position doesn't mean they should be fired after a year. Why would he get rid of all of his defensive staff after one year? He felt it necessary to move on from, Dresibach... and not you, I or anyone else probably knows all of the details as to why or what happened. So it doesn't make him a "scapegoat." They were each evaluated separately. We can look at Kiko, for Dreisbach, and as a fan say - good! Or the other two ILBs and say - bad! But that it way too simplistic and the overall evaluation of a coach is more than we would ever know. I was simply pointing out that you say "they were good enough for Pettine to take with him/rehire." That doesn't mean they were the best for the Bills. They were his guys. And there really aren't any other cases to compare it to because this is such a unique situation (because of the Browns). Again, it seems to me (just as an observer), he really tried to keep Weaver, O'Neil would have been fine, and the rest he helped pack. OK... so you assume he was lying? He didn't leave them high and dry, it was a combination of him wanting the guys he brought with him/hired and those guys wanting to leave, so Marrone let them. Maybe Pettine also doesn't view them as the best LB coaches, but he knows them and has worked well with them, and that's why he hired them? He had no choice? Of course he did. He could have continue to shape a very talented defense on an up and coming team (we are lead to believe) or he could have took the HC job of a team who just fired their last HC after just one year (there is almost no precedence for this happening in the NFL). As for striking when the iron's hot; I know, you know, and every on this board knows that if Pettine continued to improve this defense, he would have been the leading HC candidate going into next offseason. Not Pettine; the Browns had no choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 (edited) Maybe Pettine also doesn't view them as the best LB coaches, but he knows them and has worked well with them, and that's why he hired them? Not Pettine; the Browns had no choice. Yes, that is what I was trying to say... and I think Pettine does truly value O'Neil to groom him as a DC but he is calling the plays. O'Neil would not have been able to get the same promotion here because Marrone is an offensive HC and he would need to run the whole defense and call all the def plays, which he has no experience doing. I have no idea why he would not leave, and it made sense for Marrone not to stand in his way. It appears he preferred to keep Weaver as DL, but also wouldn't stand in his way as he came over with those guys and was only here a year. The other ones that left - I don't think he cared. Pettine probably really wanted O'Neil and Weaver and the rest were filling in the staff with guys who knew the system and he could trust so he could focus on the offensive staff. Edited January 29, 2014 by YoloinOhio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Doug Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 I don't think he would have fired them. Why do I need to think that to be "consistent"? That doesn't mean they are the best out there, it means they weren't bad enough to be fired. I think he actually wanted to keep Weaver. Just because a coach isn't the best inthe league at their position doesn't mean they should be fired after a year. Why would he get rid of all of his defensive staff after one year? He felt it necessary to move on from, Dresibach... and not you, I or anyone else probably knows all of the details as to why or what happened. So it doesn't make him a "scapegoat." They were each evaluated separately. We can look at Kiko, for Dreisbach, and as a fan say - good! Or the other two ILBs and say - bad! But that it way too simplistic and the overall evaluation of a coach is more than we would ever know. I was simply pointing out that you say "they were good enough for Pettine to take with him/rehire." That doesn't mean they were the best for the Bills. They were his guys. And there really aren't any other cases to compare it to because this is such a unique situation (because of the Browns). Again, it seems to me (just as an observer), he really tried to keep Weaver, O'Neil would have been fine, and the rest he helped pack. OK... so you assume he was lying? He didn't leave them high and dry, it was a combination of him wanting the guys he brought with him/hired and those guys wanting to leave, so Marrone let them. Of course I think he was lying. What do you expect him to say, "They're firing my coaches, so I have to get the hell out of here". All is well is what ends well. He left on a high note and nobody's going to fault him for being untruthful. We all do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4merper4mer Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 Maybe Pettine didn't fight for him at all on the Bills, and Dreisbach isn't all that great a LB, he was just a guy that knew Pettine's defense and Pettine figured that if he couldn't get an obviously better guy because he doesn't know any and 30 positions were already taken, and O'Neil was taking the DC job not Lbs, that Dreisbach just made sense, not that he was a guy Pettine loved and Marrone didn't. I think you are going to need a septic pencil because you pretty much just slashed your own throat with Occum's Shaver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 Of course I think he was lying. What do you expect him to say, "They're firing my coaches, so I have to get the hell out of here". All is well is what ends well. He left on a high note and nobody's going to fault him for being untruthful. We all do it. So again, your contention is that he left because Marrone fired his coaches? Not because he badly wanted to be a HC and the opportunity was right there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 So again, your contention is that he left because Marrone fired his coaches? Not because he badly wanted to be a HC and the opportunity was right there? He only fired one coach, fwiw. Right? Who had zero NFL experience prior to this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 Pettine doesn't know any other guy who can coach at LB? Yeah, maybe... The Bills run D was so bad that Pettine hired not one, but both of the Bills former LB coaches (one filling the "important opening" of DC) on his staff in Cleveland? Pretzel logic. you like steely dan too ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 He only fired one coach, fwiw. Right? Who had zero NFL experience prior to this? Yeah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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