FireChan Posted January 28, 2014 Posted January 28, 2014 No, you don't normally bash your previous employer. Do you gush glowingly about that same employer after a period of unbearable tension like that being imagined here? Your characterization of "jumping ship" is out of line with the reality of the situation. It is anything but uncommon for promoted coordinators to take along coaches they've worked with previously. Happens all the time. It's just as much a function of Schwartz preferring his own guys, too. Otherwise O'Neil would have been the only coach allowed out of his contract. And it's not like O'Neil, Weaver, Hafley (like he even counts), had deep roots in WNY, either. GO BILLS!!! GO BILLS!!! Of course he wouldn't. Would he go out of his way to wax poetic about a guy he can't stand, too? Happy trolling. GO BILLS!!! Coaches gush glowingly about organizations that just fired them. I've never seen a coach not say nice things about any organization. And you say it's not uncommon for assistants to leave with a coach they feel more comfortable with? So none of them were comfortable with Marrone or at least not as much as with Pettine. Now, none of them believed they had room here to expand their careers either, right? Because they would've stayed if they did. Schwartz wants his own guys? Like that guy from Pittsburgh? What does he know about that guy? They run similar systems? That's it probably, right? Obviously Pettine wanted Dreisbach instead of that Steeler's assistant. Who are you gonna trust? Schwartz with middling defensive career or Pettine with a top 10 career? Disclaimer: I believe our defense will be worse. I hope not awful, but if we are #18 or #19, I wouldn't be surprised.
Doc Posted January 28, 2014 Posted January 28, 2014 Unimpressively, we went out of house to fill our coordinator spot. As these other assistants flock elsewhere. LOL! And had the Bills promoted from within, some would have said "same old Bills!" I think the fact that Driesbach was the man who gave Pettine his first collegiate job might be factored into this somewhat. Yep. That friendship thingy.
Andrew Son Posted January 28, 2014 Posted January 28, 2014 In the tiny, incestuous world of NFL coaching--of course you do! It goes without saying. When has that ever not been the case? I don't think Pettine hired Driesbach as an act of mercy. My guess is that he didn;t appreciate Marrone telling him who he needed to get rid (of his hand picked staff) of after a single season---and he thinks Driesbach is a good coach. Maybe he needs to put together his staff quickly and this is the best he could do. Maybe he thinks he is an absolutely amazing coach, I don't know. I do know that it is ridiculous to think that it is some sort of message to Marrone.
Doc Posted January 28, 2014 Posted January 28, 2014 The only message it is is that Pettine liked him as a LB coach while Marrone didn't. You can have differences of opinion without there being controversy or someone saying "F U" to someone else.
Dibs Posted January 28, 2014 Posted January 28, 2014 But not enough to hold off the firing? It seems clear that marrone and pettine diverged on this one, whatever the reason (we just don't know). The more loyal you paint pettine in the rehire, the more uncomfortable Weo can paint the situation for the firing - the two pieces of the story are at odds, until further explanation. Lets get Mary Kay Cabot to ask! I wasn't meaning to add/detract from the potential Marrone/Pettine acrimonious thing. My comment was really in relation to WEO's comment of "...thought he was good enough to rehire--immediately". (Implying that Marrone sacked a good coach & that he shouldn't have done so). There is good reason to suspect that Pettine's personal relationship with Driesbach has clouded his judgement on assessing his abilities. Even if there was friction created between Pettine & Marrone over this......there is no logical reason to think that Marrone has done anything wrong/bad/unusual/rash by sacking him.
Mr. WEO Posted January 28, 2014 Posted January 28, 2014 The only message it is is that Pettine liked him as a LB coach while Marrone didn't. You can have differences of opinion without there being controversy or someone saying "F U" to someone else. Well what does it say when a rookie HC fires a coach his DC doesn't want to fire? Just a little difference of opinion?
NoSaint Posted January 28, 2014 Posted January 28, 2014 Well what does it say when a rookie HC fires a coach his DC doesn't want to fire? Just a little difference of opinion? Possibly. Any more than possibly (for good or bad narratives) is making a jump.
Doc Posted January 28, 2014 Posted January 28, 2014 Well what does it say when a rookie HC fires a coach his DC doesn't want to fire? Just a little difference of opinion? It's Marrone's team, not Pettine's. Had the Browns not been desperate after their top-10 choices bailed on them, Pettine would still be the DC and coaching sans Dreisbach. Instead he got offered the job by default and took it, which he was right to do.
Dibs Posted January 28, 2014 Posted January 28, 2014 (edited) Well what does it say when a rookie HC fires a coach his DC doesn't want to fire? Just a little difference of opinion? You are right. Pettine could have been upset/annoyed/angry/disappointed/irate/frustrated(any or all of these) with the sacking of Driesbach. I think however that it is a large stretch to think that it would have in any way effected Pettine's decision on taking the Brown's HC position.....or effected his professional relationship with Marrone. I assume that Pettine is very professional in his attitudes relating to the management issues of the game.....if for no reasons other than his experience in the league, and my respect for his achievements. Edited January 28, 2014 by Dibs
K-9 Posted January 28, 2014 Posted January 28, 2014 It's Marrone's team, not Pettine's. Had the Browns not been desperate after their top-10 choices bailed on them, Pettine would still be the DC and coaching sans Dreisbach. Instead he got offered the job by default and took it, which he was right to do. That's plain wrong. Pettine was gonna quit because the mere sight of Marrone made him nauseous and the thought of having to work with him was more than he could bear after Marrone had the temerity to fire his good friend and first year NFL coach. Seriously, with all the legit stuff to question Marrone about, why resort to making stuff up? All coaches report to the HC, not the respective coordinators on their side of the ball. Next thing you know, people here will start a rumor that Marrone demanded that Pettine fire Dreisbach and refused. GO BILLS!!!
YoloinOhio Posted January 28, 2014 Posted January 28, 2014 (edited) Unimpressively, we went out of house to fill our coordinator spot. As these other assistants flock elsewhere. Please detail which of the assistants who are leaving with Pettine you would like to have as a DC. Go. And don't forget that we have an Offensive HC, so this guy will need to completely run the defense and call plays, so should have some experience doing so. McDaniels and Gase did exactly that. I have no idea if Dreisbach is a good coach at all. I do know that Marrone fired him and Pettine, his most recent boss (and the the guy who ran the D) in Buffalo, thought he was good enough to rehire--immediately. The only conclusion I can come to is that Pettine didn't want him fired and Marrone fired him anyway. Now Pettine has bolted for a job, completely reasonably, that others didn't want. Not sure who is "demanding answers". I'm just speculating, because....well, it's what fans do. And to claim the "coaching culture" is completely inscrutable is really a stretch. Some, such as the poster above, will always be predisposed to say all of this is no big deal---rookie HC has nearly his entire defensive staff bolt after one year with him is nothing to be concerned with, nor does it signify anything in particular. That's some tough spinning, I'd say. McDaniels and Gase decided not to take the Browns job because they loved their HC too much to consider taking a promotion?! Um, no. They didn't take the Browns job because they knew they would have a better opportunity next year. Pettine wasn't quite that confident. Edited January 28, 2014 by YoloinOhio
K-9 Posted January 28, 2014 Posted January 28, 2014 Coaches gush glowingly about organizations that just fired them. I've never seen a coach not say nice things about any organization. So, because it fits your narrative, Pettine was just bullschitting. Must be because it's so common for a HC to actually help prepare one of his assistants for another HC opportunity. And you say it's not uncommon for assistants to leave with a coach they feel more comfortable with? So none of them were comfortable with Marrone or at least not as much as with Pettine. Now, none of them believed they had room here to expand their careers either, right? Because they would've stayed if they did. Especially those coaches who have a long history together. O'Neil got his promotion, Weaver has been with Pettine previously, and Pettine lobbied for Hafley while here. This is representative of not liking Marrone? Or a perceived lack of opportunity in Buffalo? I don't understand that. The Bills were simply being magnanimous in granting them the freedom to go elsewhere. Why that is viewed as a negative is beyond me. But then I don't have a narrative to support, either. Schwartz wants his own guys? Like that guy from Pittsburgh? What does he know about that guy? They run similar systems? That's it probably, right? I can only assume Schwartz wants good people, too. That may preclude "his own guys" if another, more qualified candidate becomes available. Doesn't matter one bit what kind of system a coach comes from previously. He won't be asked to coordinate a system. He'll be asked to coach the LBs for whatever front and sub package the situation calls for. I can't make sense out of your comment here. Obviously Pettine wanted Dreisbach instead of that Steeler's assistant. Who are you gonna trust? Schwartz with middling defensive career or Pettine with a top 10 career? Pettine has a long history with Dreisbach who gave him his first job at Pitt. This just supports the idea that coaches may have preferences towards long-time friends and associates. It's safe to say Dreisbach wasn't hired because of his long history of success at the NFL level. You can't be surprised by that. I "trust" that Schwartz will do his best. He's had some success. He's also never had the top to bottom talent he's getting with this squad, either. I "trust" that neither Dreisbach OR the guy from the Steelers would impact Schwartz's schematic principles one way of the other. Disclaimer: I believe our defense will be worse. I hope not awful, but if we are #18 or #19, I wouldn't be surprised. OK.
FireChan Posted January 28, 2014 Posted January 28, 2014 arro Coaches gush glowingly about organizations that just fired them. I've never seen a coach not say nice things about any organization. So, because it fits your narrative, Pettine was just bullschitting. Must be because it's so common for a HC to actually help prepare one of his assistants for another HC opportunity. No. Never said that Pettine had to be lying. He can love Marrone for everything Marrone did for him and still think he's a bum coach. Just like Arthur Moats is a great, heart of gold dude, but he still kinda sucks. The original point was that Pettine obviously loves Maroon because he said nice things about us. Which is basically a standard procedure in this industry and means nothing either way. Chud had nice things to say about the Browns, doesn't mean he was happy there. And you say it's not uncommon for assistants to leave with a coach they feel more comfortable with? So none of them were comfortable with Marrone or at least not as much as with Pettine. Now, none of them believed they had room here to expand their careers either, right? Because they would've stayed if they did. Especially those coaches who have a long history together. O'Neil got his promotion, Weaver has been with Pettine previously, and Pettine lobbied for Hafley while here. This is representative of not liking Marrone? Or a perceived lack of opportunity in Buffalo? I don't understand that. The Bills were simply being magnanimous in granting them the freedom to go elsewhere. Why that is viewed as a negative is beyond me. But then I don't have a narrative to support, either. You're telling me that their comfort level with Pettine overrode any benefits they could have here? That's kinda the point. They'd rather go with a comfort then a possible better job here. I just find it curious we got ransacked and are now interviewing rando's from other teams. You still haven't provided an example of an entire side of the ball staff bailing. Schwartz wants his own guys? Like that guy from Pittsburgh? What does he know about that guy? They run similar systems? That's it probably, right? I can only assume Schwartz wants good people, too. That may preclude "his own guys" if another, more qualified candidate becomes available. Doesn't matter one bit what kind of system a coach comes from previously. He won't be asked to coordinate a system. He'll be asked to coach the LBs for whatever front and sub package the situation calls for. I can't make sense out of your comment here. I'm saying that Schwarts sucked at finding DC's as an HC. Why should I believe he's any good at finding position coaches as a DC? Obviously Pettine wanted Dreisbach instead of that Steeler's assistant. Who are you gonna trust? Schwartz with middling defensive career or Pettine with a top 10 career? Pettine has a long history with Dreisbach who gave him his first job at Pitt. This just supports the idea that coaches may have preferences towards long-time friends and associates. It's safe to say Dreisbach wasn't hired because of his long history of success at the NFL level. You can't be surprised by that. I "trust" that Schwartz will do his best. He's had some success. He's also never had the top to bottom talent he's getting with this squad, either. I "trust" that neither Dreisbach OR the guy from the Steelers would impact Schwartz's schematic principles one way of the other. Dreisbach was obviously fired for his "perceived" impact on the team. I get what you're saying about positional coaches and schemes, but a bad LB coach will still have a negative overall effect. I believe Pettine was against the Dreisbach fire and has rectified Marrone's "mistake." That remains to be seen. Disclaimer: I believe our defense will be worse. I hope not awful, but if we are #18 or #19, I wouldn't be surprised. OK. Yeah.
Mr. WEO Posted January 28, 2014 Posted January 28, 2014 Please detail which of the assistants who are leaving with Pettine you would like to have as a DC. Go. And don't forget that we have an Offensive HC, so this guy will need to completely run the defense and call plays, so should have some experience doing so. McDaniels and Gase decided not to take the Browns job because they loved their HC too much to consider taking a promotion?! Um, no. They didn't take the Browns job because they knew they would have a better opportunity next year. Pettine wasn't quite that confident. They said "no thanks" because they thought it was an unattractive job. They have no idea what HC opportunities, if any, will be available next year. The worst teams just fired their HCs. That's plain wrong. Pettine was gonna quit because the mere sight of Marrone made him nauseous and the thought of having to work with him was more than he could bear after Marrone had the temerity to fire his good friend and first year NFL coach. Seriously, with all the legit stuff to question Marrone about, why resort to making stuff up? All coaches report to the HC, not the respective coordinators on their side of the ball. Next thing you know, people here will start a rumor that Marrone demanded that Pettine fire Dreisbach and refused. GO BILLS!!! It really doens't have to be as silly as you need to make it sound. It is obvious that, by hiring Dreisbach, Pettine would never have fired the guy. Therefore, he disagreed with the firing. There is nothing to make up there--it's a simple conclusion.
NoSaint Posted January 28, 2014 Posted January 28, 2014 It really doens't have to be as silly as you need to make it sound. It is obvious that, by hiring Dreisbach, Pettine would never have fired the guy. Therefore, he disagreed with the firing. There is nothing to make up there--it's a simple conclusion. yea, but it couldve been a "i probably wouldnt make the same choice, but im ok with it" situation too. as i said earlier, the firing and re-hiring are certainly at odds and show a difference in opinion, but it mightve been much less controversial than "i am overruling you and you will accept it"
Mr. WEO Posted January 28, 2014 Posted January 28, 2014 yea, but it couldve been a "i probably wouldnt make the same choice, but im ok with it" situation too. as i said earlier, the firing and re-hiring are certainly at odds and show a difference in opinion, but it mightve been much less controversial than "i am overruling you and you will accept it" But the implication is that the HC decided to fire a position coach his DC would not have fired. Marrone is the HC, but he is no DC. In fact, I would think he had little significant input on defense all season, deferring to the expert he chose in Pettine.
HankBulloughMellencamp Posted January 28, 2014 Posted January 28, 2014 (edited) Some, such as the poster above, will always be predisposed to say all of this is no big deal---rookie HC has nearly his entire defensive staff bolt after one year with him is nothing to be concerned with, nor does it signify anything in particular. That's some tough spinning, I'd say. Pot, meet kettle. What we have here is your textbook example of a TBD troll/spin-master extraordinaire. I simply do not consider Pettine taking his defensive guys with him, while offering his right-hand man a significant promotion, to be any black mark on the Marrone regime. Schwartz will bring in his own guys, which I am sure was the plan they all discussed in bringing him aboard, and our D will again be a strength of the team. WEO himself had already declared that there was a snowball’s chance in hell that Pettine would ever be considered for a head coaching opportunity this soon, so it’s no surprise he is not acknowledging any of the credit MP bestowed upon Marrone or the organization as a whole as he left. But the lengths to which WEO (and others riding his wake) have gone to portray a promoted coordinator who is taking the guys he brought with him as some sort of act of defiance against his former boss is quite comical. Edited January 28, 2014 by HankBulloughMellencamp
TPS Posted January 28, 2014 Posted January 28, 2014 Coaches gush glowingly about organizations that just fired them. I've never seen a coach not say nice things about any organization. And you say it's not uncommon for assistants to leave with a coach they feel more comfortable with? So none of them were comfortable with Marrone or at least not as much as with Pettine. Now, none of them believed they had room here to expand their careers either, right? Because they would've stayed if they did. Schwartz wants his own guys? Like that guy from Pittsburgh? What does he know about that guy? They run similar systems? That's it probably, right? Obviously Pettine wanted Dreisbach instead of that Steeler's assistant. Who are you gonna trust? Schwartz with middling defensive career or Pettine with a top 10 career? Disclaimer: I believe our defense will be worse. I hope not awful, but if we are #18 or #19, I wouldn't be surprised. In the way that defenses (and offenses) are now rated--points, that would be an improvement. I'll take an improvement in points over yards any day as that translates to more wins.
GG Posted January 28, 2014 Posted January 28, 2014 Well, lookie here, looks like TSW aren't the only ones upset about Bills' defensive coach departures.
K-9 Posted January 28, 2014 Posted January 28, 2014 It really doens't have to be as silly as you need to make it sound. It is obvious that, by hiring Dreisbach, Pettine would never have fired the guy. Therefore, he disagreed with the firing. There is nothing to make up there--it's a simple conclusion. Doesn't have to sound as silly indeed. Nobody disputes that Marrone fired a guy Pettine probably wouldn't have. That's not the point. GO BILLS!!!
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