LB coach Chuck Driesbach relieved of duties

[RyanC883]

This is another odd decision by Marrone. Yeah, fire the coach who had the likely Defensive Player of the Year, along with what some publications ranked as the BEST Linebacker in the NFL last year. Isn't the run D the D-line coach. D-like coach must be best buds with Marrone. This cronyism is driving me nuts. Another dud coach.

 

Lets see who they get to replace him. Larry Johnson, the long time D-line coach at PSU is available. They have always had stout defensive units. (no Sandusky jokes).

Edited January 14, 2014 by RyanC883

[GG]

Yes, this was the point I was getting at. If the team doesn't win, then that's what will drive the fans to outrage...things like position coaches and 1st down play calls will be window dressing.

 

Chicken or the egg?

 

There is an element of validity in running your analytics through a crowdsourcing model, if you are smart enough to weed out the tar & feather noise in the data. Hiring choices and in-game decision making are among the many causalities of potential success. I agree that it's insane to think that a few bad play calls should doom a coach. But, a pattern of bad calls will.

 

That's why there are polar views on the Hilliard/Dreisbach vs Crossman decisions. It's plain that Marrone's honeymoon is over, so let's review his rhetoric compared to results. His public commentary is important in his review, because he's the one who made a big deal about it when he was hired and throughout the offseason. Now, it's time to see the baby. One year may not be enough to see the full grown child, but you can guess the prospects by studying the trends.

 

Perhaps I'm biased against blowhards, but to me Marrone's first winter and spring included a lot of boisterous talk by a guy who to me seems very thin skinned. Couple that with a full court press of PR spin by OBD, made me a bit wary. I'm ok with him preaching accountability and managing the roster to back his actions, but the coaching moves are puzzling. He said that he's assembling a staff of teachers and experts, but didn't hire a separate QB coach for a raw rookie. His background is OL, but that unit regressed. I don't know what happened between him and Ike/Dreisbach, but those guys aren't getting the same benefit of the doubt that he's affording to Hackett & Crossman. That's the oddity that I'm finding puzzling in his actions. On the surface, he's favoring some guys over others, and that is not a good message to send when you have such a public stance on accountability.

[GA BILLS FAN]

The Moorman resigning is as benign as they come --- veteran minimum to a guy at least 2 years past his prime --- they'll bring in competition and more than likely cut him before season, as I believe he is currently in the bottom 1/4th of the leagues punters ---- if you are looking for signs of improvement or a change in philosophy toward winning --- pay attention to (1) Toronto series (let's see if Brandon puts winning first) -- (2) waivers (there was talk late in year about "significant changes" to roster) --- (3) who gets hired for WR and LB and what are their histories --- as well as if DM does fire Crossman ---- ----- in the end, the judgment is ultimately on the field --- but that won't be known until at least September --- so, for January --- those are all we got

[hondo in seattle]

I am sure most of the people looking at this thread already read the story about it in the Bucks Country paper, but if not, here is the link:

http://www.buckscoun...two-bills-drive

 

The guy seemed a little broken hearted and I feel bad for him. He obviously loved what he was dong. I have no idea whether he deserved to be fired or not, but clearly something was wrong with this defense.

 

Still, the article was a reminder that these are people too, and whatever your walk in life, it sucks to lose a job you love. I hope the guy lands somewhere else he likes as much as Buffalo.

 

Yeah, this article made me feel sad.

 

If Driesbach didn't see this coming, Pettine and Marrone did something wrong. This is Management 101. If someone is under-performing, they should be told what their mistakes and weakness are - so they have a chance to correct them - before termination. Driesbach seemed genuinely shocked, and clueless as to the reason why.

 

But we only have his side of the story and that may be all we ever get (unless JW digs up the other side).

[thebandit27]

Chicken or the egg?

 

There is an element of validity in running your analytics through a crowdsourcing model, if you are smart enough to weed out the tar & feather noise in the data. Hiring choices and in-game decision making are among the many causalities of potential success. I agree that it's insane to think that a few bad play calls should doom a coach. But, a pattern of bad calls will.

 

That's why there are polar views on the Hilliard/Dreisbach vs Crossman decisions. It's plain that Marrone's honeymoon is over, so let's review his rhetoric compared to results. His public commentary is important in his review, because he's the one who made a big deal about it when he was hired and throughout the offseason. Now, it's time to see the baby. One year may not be enough to see the full grown child, but you can guess the prospects by studying the trends.

 

Perhaps I'm biased against blowhards, but to me Marrone's first winter and spring included a lot of boisterous talk by a guy who to me seems very thin skinned. Couple that with a full court press of PR spin by OBD, made me a bit wary. I'm ok with him preaching accountability and managing the roster to back his actions, but the coaching moves are puzzling. He said that he's assembling a staff of teachers and experts, but didn't hire a separate QB coach for a raw rookie. His background is OL, but that unit regressed. I don't know what happened between him and Ike/Dreisbach, but those guys aren't getting the same benefit of the doubt that he's affording to Hackett & Crossman. That's the oddity that I'm finding puzzling in his actions. On the surface, he's favoring some guys over others, and that is not a good message to send when you have such a public stance on accountability.

 

I have no problem with the take being that there's an apparent disconnect between what Marrone is saying and doing in certain areas...my personal stance is that I want to see how he makes adjustments from year 1 to year 2 and see if he's right before I take him to task over the changes he makes or doesn't make.

 

Thanks for elaborating.

 

The Moorman resigning is as benign as they come --- veteran minimum to a guy at least 2 years past his prime --- they'll bring in competition and more than likely cut him before season, as I believe he is currently in the bottom 1/4th of the leagues punters ---- if you are looking for signs of improvement or a change in philosophy toward winning --- pay attention to (1) Toronto series (let's see if Brandon puts winning first) -- (2) waivers (there was talk late in year about "significant changes" to roster) --- (3) who gets hired for WR and LB and what are their histories --- as well as if DM does fire Crossman ---- ----- in the end, the judgment is ultimately on the field --- but that won't be known until at least September --- so, for January --- those are all we got

 

Yes...all will be interesting to see.

[Big Turk]

 

 

Yeah, this article made me feel sad.

 

If Driesbach didn't see this coming, Pettine and Marrone did something wrong. This is Management 101. If someone is under-performing, they should be told what their mistakes and weakness are - so they have a chance to correct them - before termination. Driesbach seemed genuinely shocked, and clueless as to the reason why.

 

But we only have his side of the story and that may be all we ever get (unless JW digs up the other side).

 

Wow, said he loved it here and was his favorite place he's ever been...my guess is after reviewing all games comprehensively together they kept seeing the same problems they kept trying to get him to fix with positioning and gap fills that maybe didn't happen a bunch every game, but looking at all games in a short period of time they saw the same thing over and over and didn't get it corrected...just a guess

[4merper4mer]

Yeah, this article made me feel sad.

 

If Driesbach didn't see this coming, Pettine and Marrone did something wrong. This is Management 101. If someone is under-performing, they should be told what their mistakes and weakness are - so they have a chance to correct them - before termination. Driesbach seemed genuinely shocked, and clueless as to the reason why.

 

But we only have his side of the story and that may be all we ever get (unless JW digs up the other side).

 

Agreed and if the guy is being truthful about Greggo Marrone never disagreeing with him all year, always having a good relationship, etc.....it is additional cause for concern about whether Greggo Marrone is up to the task or just the blunderbust he appears to be.

 

This LB corps is thin at best on paper and if you ask me it performed far better than I thought it would. Some of that is Alonso turning out so well compared to the average 2nd round rookie LB but I don't think anyone would look at the roster and say we underperformed. Does Alonso really belong in the middle of a deep rostered LB corps or should he be on the outside? Crossman gets an excuse of not having talented players from a pool of 53 and this guy gets no such pass with such a shallow pool? Maybe Greggo Marrone will prove me wrong but it sure seems weird.

[Kelly the Dog]

If he never saw it coming and had no inkling whatsoever, why did the hair go up on his next (sic) when he heard the coach wanted to talk to him?

 

I'm not sure I trust that article. It was mistake filled, poorly written, from his hometown paper. I also find it very, very hard to believe that Marrone or Pettine would not tell him anything whatsoever about what he did wrong.

[BigBuff423]

Given it's been 15 years and counting since the Bills made the playoffs, fans are entitled to be skeptical of this franchise, in fact, it's shocking to every NFL fan outside Buffalo that Bills fans aren't more skeptical --- with Marrone/Whaley both being new (Whaley not so much, but let's give him that benefit of the doubt), fans are looking for signs and clues that this tandem will produce a winning team --- the team went 6-10, so it's even more important to try and peel back the onion to understand whether Marrone is or will be a top notch HC, able to compete with the likes of Belicheat and others of his ilk --- we are trying to evaluate EVERY move Whaley makes to see if he has an eye for talent, takes calculated risks and can match the skills of guys like Ozzie Newsome ---- SO, to make a long post a bit longer, when the Bills fire an assistant coach (LB & WR) and don't fire another assistant (ST), it matters --- EVERY move matters these first 12-18 months until we know based on what happens on-the-field whether this tandem will be successful --- it's not only RIGHT to criticize and critique these moves, it's the LEAST we can do as fans to try and understand what we have --- after all, this franchise is on HC #6 since the last playoffs --- unfortunately, we've earned the right

 

Agree. Well stated.

[Buftex]

Agreed and if the guy is being truthful about Greggo Marrone never disagreeing with him all year, always having a good relationship, etc.....it is additional cause for concern about whether Greggo Marrone is up to the task or just the blunderbust he appears to be.

 

This LB corps is thin at best on paper and if you ask me it performed far better than I thought it would. Some of that is Alonso turning out so well compared to the average 2nd round rookie LB but I don't think anyone would look at the roster and say we underperformed. Does Alonso really belong in the middle of a deep rostered LB corps or should he be on the outside? Crossman gets an excuse of not having talented players from a pool of 53 and this guy gets no such pass with such a shallow pool? Maybe Greggo Marrone will prove me wrong but it sure seems weird.

 

Quite honeslty, nobody really knows anything here...translating stats and statistical results don't tell the story when you are talking about human interaction. Dreisbach says that Marrone told him he wanted to "change the dynamic" of the coaching staff. It really could be that simple. Marrone put together his coaching staff last year, and is, possibly, working out the kinks. Some people work better together than others... not sure why everyone here is assuming that this move exposes some weakness, or character flaw, in Marrone. He obviously sees somethig he doesn't like, and is addressing it. Isn't that what everyone wants?

[NoSaint]

 

Yes, this was the point I was getting at. If the team doesn't win, then that's what will drive the fans to outrage...things like position coaches and 1st down play calls will be window dressing.

 

unless that winning includes a ring, the honey moon period is real short on that free pass with the fans as the small mistakes get magnified hugely on a talented team in big games. while the coaches job security is there, dont expect everything to be roses and sunshine once we start winning.

[Buftex]

If he never saw it coming and had no inkling whatsoever, why did the hair go up on his next (sic) when he heard the coach wanted to talk to him?

 

I'm not sure I trust that article. It was mistake filled, poorly written, from his hometown paper. I also find it very, very hard to believe that Marrone or Pettine would not tell him anything whatsoever about what he did wrong.

 

Well, just in case you said that...ESPN wrote almost the exact same article!

http://espn.go.com/blog/buffalo-bills/post/_/id/6503/chuck-driesbach-stunned-by-bills-firing

 

I have no problem with the take being that there's an apparent disconnect between what Marrone is saying and doing in certain areas...my personal stance is that I want to see how he makes adjustments from year 1 to year 2 and see if he's right before I take him to task over the changes he makes or doesn't make.

 

 

 

Why on earth would you do that?

[NoSaint]

 

 

Quite honeslty, nobody really knows anything here...translating stats and statistical results don't tell the story when you are talking about human interaction. Dreisbach says that Marrone told him he wanted to "change the dynamic" of the coaching staff. It really could be that simple. Marrone put together his coaching staff last year, and is, possibly, working out the kinks. Some people work better together than others... not sure why everyone here is assuming that this move exposes some weakness, or character flaw, in Marrone. He obviously sees somethig he doesn't like, and is addressing it. Isn't that what everyone wants?

 

really, outside pointing at the big wrinkle remaining (ie crossman), i dont think theres much anyone can be upset about or question in this ironing. much like Ike, its a unit that at times struggled and hurt the team. if marrone found it to be a coaching issue, so be it. even with kikos spectacular highlight reel plays there were obviously some issues that existed.

[4merper4mer]

If he never saw it coming and had no inkling whatsoever, why did the hair go up on his next (sic) when he heard the coach wanted to talk to him?

 

I'm not sure I trust that article. It was mistake filled, poorly written, from his hometown paper. I also find it very, very hard to believe that Marrone or Pettine would not tell him anything whatsoever about what he did wrong.

 

I agree about the hair on his neck thing and that's why I added the caveat in my post. I thought it was strange about Greggo Marrone not telling him what he did wrong too, but it sounded believable given Greggo Marrone's generalities when it came to Hilliard and his perceived shortcomings or "difference in philosophy" veiled shot. Greggo Marrone definitely does not owe the fans some sort of intimate details on firings, but this coach said he got none, I've seen nothing from Hilliard and speculation/hearsay from Moran that Hilliard was liked and respected. Meanwhile a coach with no discernible positive results in a decade is defended publicly by Greggo Marrone throwing players under the bus. If this firing were isolated it is one thing, but it isn't. I hope this isn't some sort of slap at Pettine who clearly has a relationship that goes back with this guy. Could all of this stuff happen and still have Greggo Marrone turn out to be a competent coach? Yes IMO, but the odds get lower and lower every time something strange like this happens and the obvious stuff doesn't.

 

Although I think the Bills showed something on the field this year and played hard in most games I have to consider Greggo Marrone a near certain failure. I hope I am wrong but he simply seems far more focused on himself than he does on anything else.

[Kelly the Dog]

Well, just in case you said that...ESPN wrote almost the exact same article!

http://espn.go.com/b...by-bills-firing

 

Rodak is reduced to that? Basically reprinting a horrendous article with no other reporting on it? God, that's horrible.

[hondo in seattle]

We gave up more long runs than any team in the NFL... Driesbach had no NFL experience... He had never been a LB coach before... I guess Marrone considered Driesbach a swing and a miss.

 

Maybe Marrone or Pettine have a better replacement already lined up. I'm giving Marrone a pass on this one.

[4merper4mer]

Quite honeslty, nobody really knows anything here...translating stats and statistical results don't tell the story when you are talking about human interaction. Dreisbach says that Marrone told him he wanted to "change the dynamic" of the coaching staff. It really could be that simple. Marrone put together his coaching staff last year, and is, possibly, working out the kinks. Some people work better together than others... not sure why everyone here is assuming that this move exposes some weakness, or character flaw, in Marrone. He obviously sees somethig he doesn't like, and is addressing it. Isn't that what everyone wants?

 

I don't disagree but when an LB corps performs reasonably well with an undersized rookie in the middle, and a mid tier FA as the anchor and the special teams drops precipitously under a guy who has consistently failed but is a friend of the HC and an exiting WR coach is due to "difference in philosophy", which is code speak to throw him under the bus, it worries me. I do think we have to allow the HC to call the shots. It is just as time goes by Greggo Marrone looks more like he is calling the shots so everyone will acknowledge his authority rather than to improve the team.

[Kelly the Dog]

I agree about the hair on his neck thing and that's why I added the caveat in my post. I thought it was strange about Greggo Marrone not telling him what he did wrong too, but it sounded believable given Greggo Marrone's generalities when it came to Hilliard and his perceived shortcomings or "difference in philosophy" veiled shot. Greggo Marrone definitely does not owe the fans some sort of intimate details on firings, but this coach said he got none, I've seen nothing from Hilliard and speculation/hearsay from Moran that Hilliard was liked and respected. Meanwhile a coach with no discernible positive results in a decade is defended publicly by Greggo Marrone throwing players under the bus. If this firing were isolated it is one thing, but it isn't. I hope this isn't some sort of slap at Pettine who clearly has a relationship that goes back with this guy. Could all of this stuff happen and still have Greggo Marrone turn out to be a competent coach? Yes IMO, but the odds get lower and lower every time something strange like this happens and the obvious stuff doesn't.

 

Although I think the Bills showed something on the field this year and played hard in most games I have to consider Greggo Marrone a near certain failure. I hope I am wrong but he simply seems far more focused on himself than he does on anything else.

I think you are giving way, way, way too much credence to the reports that we fans get from the reasons these coaches are fired. Chances are, Marrone likes Hilliard and Dreisbach as men and as coaches. That's why he hired them in the first place. And chances are if Marrone thinks that these guys made some absolute coaching blunders and bone-headed calls or player evaluations he is NOT ever going to say that publicly, so the guy can get his next job. These guys usually choose their words carefully about firings, for many, many good reasons. And guys like Dreisbach, to his hometown paper in a 10 minute interview, are not going to say "I let the team down", or "I blew it this one game" They are going to protect themselves. I'm sure it came as some surprise to him. It probably didnt to Marrone and Pettine.

[4merper4mer]

We gave up more long runs than any team in the NFL... Driesbach had no NFL experience... He had never been a LB coach before... I guess Marrone considered Driesbach a swing and a miss.

 

Maybe Marrone or Pettine have a better replacement already lined up. I'm giving Marrone a pass on this one.

 

Maybe, but he blamed the horrific ST on players. This LB corps does not have the players clearly, but this time it is the non-buddy coaches fault. These could all be the right calls but as more of them get thrown on the pile it looks more like a pile of garbage than pieces of a puzzle.

 

I think you are giving way, way, way too much credence to the reports that we fans get from the reasons these coaches are fired. Chances are, Marrone likes Hilliard and Dreisbach as men and as coaches. That's why he hired them in the first place. And chances are if Marrone thinks that these guys made some absolute coaching blunders and bone-headed calls or player evaluations he is NOT ever going to say that publicly, so the guy can get his next job. These guys usually choose their words carefully about firings, for many, many good reasons. And guys like Dreisbach, to his hometown paper in a 10 minute interview, are not going to say "I let the team down", or "I blew it this one game" They are going to protect themselves. I'm sure it came as some surprise to him. It probably didnt to Marrone and Pettine.

 

If Greggo Marrone was better at choosing his words he would have said "we are going to go in another direction" with the WRs. This implies a new style and a better idea or something. Instead he comes out with there is a "difference in philosophy" which clearly implies and inflexibility of Hilliard to adapt.

[Gugny]

As pissed as many (including myself) are about the retention of The Danny, I think the fact remains that - as bad as ST were, they didn't really put us in a position to lose many games other than the Blount Show. The defense sucked all year. Kiko Alonso had a fine rookie campaign, but let's not call him "great," quite yet. As a few others have pointed out, the guy was all over the place. The defense gave up a lot of points and were responsible, in my opinion, for most of Buffalo's losses this year. Crappy LB play was a big part of that --- regardless of the level of talent he had to work with. Teams were running at will ... when everyone knew they were running. This firing doesn't surprise me that much.