Just when teams were focused on Brady...

[mrags]

To add to this. Since Tom Brady, the Pats have won 3 SBs and been to 5. The 3 they won, were against teams that were more offensively driven than defensively. At the same time, the Pats were more defensively driven than offensively.

 

Since the 3 SuperBowls that NE has won, they have lost twice to superior defenses in the Giants. Now based on statistics, the first SB against the Giants, the Pats had a better defense statistically in paper. But IMO that's only because Tom Brady was lighting up defenses so much that the defense only had to play pass defense as they were winning by such a large margin of points. We can all agree that the defense of the Giants with their pass rush is what made the difference in both SuperBowls. Out Tom Brady on his butt and the game plan changes.

[SageAgainstTheMachine]

Talib really is a misnomer to me. He was average to slightly above mediocre almost all of his career and gets to NE and lights it up turning in top performances week in and week out and doing it without much fanfare or love. Very under appreciated. His skillset is matched by his fundamental play, keeping himself in good position and playing a very physical game. I did not expect anything at all of his skillset to match the Patriots defense but looking back on it I forgot how easy it is for Pats DB's to get away with very physical play. Talib played very tough against top WR's and was very effective at shutting them down at the LOS before the WR would release.

 

Conversely, A. Cromartie went a different route. When I figured he would continue to be above average they had him drop off the line and play piss poor defense getting beat like rug. He couldn't keep up with his speed dropping off, he didn't make the right turns with his hips, and he played entire games catching up to his man. Cromartie needed to be at the LOS to jam his targets.

 

I wonder if Cro could get released. We have Robey, but Cro could make a tremendous nickel back in the right system (ours).

 

Maybe it is like I have said a few times, the RB is going to make a comeback soon. The big bruiser back is going to tear up defenses because they've gotten so small and so quick. Our DL is a prime example. We don't have fat men just sitting there like we once did - Ted Washington, Sam Adams and Pat Williams. Instead we have rushing DL that get blown up on run blocks and driven apart by the dive blockers.

 

I think you may be right, I think it may be here already - the turning of the game back in to the running game. Even thinking of current LB's in the league, few are good against the run. I heard Poz called one of the best LB's against the run this year by a broadcaster. That's scary. Ray Lewis needs to come back and slap some of these guys in the head, because if it does break open like I think then I am all for going RB before round 3. Lets see how the rest of the post season plays out.

 

Not to be a grammar/syntax nazi, but I really don't know what you mean by that.

[littlelouie]

Mrags - surely you jest when you ask about Belichick being mediocre in New England. He was mediocre his first year in New England, going 5 and 11. He had just inherited a lousy team and had not yet put his stamp on it. He had evaluate what he had and build accordingly. It takes that first year for a coach to completely analyze the team and figure what he has to do to make them successful. His second year with them he WON a SUPER BOWL. You can't do any better than winning the big game. I mean you know how hard it is and what an accomplishment it is to be the best team in the league and world champion?? It's not easy. For example, look at the Bills e, they have been in the league 53 years and have NEVER won a super bowl. That's over a half century without a world champ title. Old Billy has THREE world titles just as a head coach, that's not even counting his super bowl victories as a def. coordinator.

 

As far as being mediocre with the Browns? You have to look no further than the owner. When have the Browns ever let a coach run the show? The Browns organization is a joke. The are perennial losers. If a coach has to fight the owner he can't succeed. Ralph is a perfect example of that. Polian was building dynasty until Ralph interfered by brnging in Littman and Overdork. He stripped Polian of his complete control and Polian walked. We all know how successful Polian was when he left here. Polian knew no team can be good if they don't let he football people control the football operations. When bean counters step in it always leads to disaster. That's why when Polian left he said, "Bills fans cherish this team, you will NEVER see another one like it." Man that was over 20 years ago and boy was he telling the truth.

[mrags]

I'm not disagreeing with anything you say here. I don't understand your argument. That Billy B is awesome??? Great. Time will tell how good he is when Tommy boy retires. Without Brady, he is not so good regardless of what team he was coaching. It's a fact and a stat that we can look at again in another 10 years to see how great he is without Tom Brady. Until then, enjoy the Pats. You sound like a true fan.

 

My argument is that defenses and running games win more often than heavy passing games. Not sure what your argument is. The Pats haven't win a SB since they got away from heavy run games and short (run like) dump off passes and stout defenses. Since they became an offensive powerhouse, they haven't won a single SB.

[littlelouie]

I'm not arguing with you. You have valid points, many I agree with. My intention is NOT to argue but just to state my opinion that the Pats deserve credit. Besides that, I'm NOT a die hard Pats fan. I just love good football no matter what team it is. In fact I may have my heart broken today as my favorite team is Carolina. San Fran and Kapernick are super tough but I'll be rooting for Carolina none the less.

[RuntheDamnBall]

I hate the Pats, but damn if they aren't good at just plugging in role players and supporting their star power with them. I think one really overlooked aspect of FA is that the Pats attract these guys and can usually sign them at market or below -- because they are a winning franchise with consistency and stability at QB. That coupled with shrewd trades yields players who may not be stars, but who star in games because of the Pats' ability to adapt.

 

Blount is one such example, but there are others.

 

It seems like every frigging replacement receiver they get is GREAT at hauling in those passes to the turf from Brady that literally no one else can catch. Good for 7-11 yards a pop. None of them is afraid to get dirty and they all have pretty good hands. And they will most likely play for somebody else the next season and do next to nothing, unless they are catching passes from Peyton or perhaps Luck. It's infuriating.

[mrags]

I'm not arguing with you. You have valid points, many I agree with. My intention is NOT to argue but just to state my opinion that the Pats deserve credit. Besides that, I'm NOT a die hard Pats fan. I just love good football no matter what team it is. In fact I may have my heart broken today as my favorite team is Carolina. San Fran and Kapernick are super tough but I'll be rooting for Carolina none the less.

Ok. I'm not arguing with that fact. The Pats deserve credit. Billy B does as well. I'm just a bigger believer that when Tom retires we will see a huge difference. Which is odd because the Pats haven't won the big one since they were more defensively orientated with short throws and run game. I believe Billy B is a great defensive coordinator but I think his ego has gotten to him and that's why they haven't won since 03'. T Brady is just that good to make up the difference in the season but when it comes to the big game, it's not enough.

 

I too, am a huge fan of "good football" but I absolutely hate the Pats no matter what. Just like I hate the Jets, and the Phins. I want the AFC east teams to suffer. I get joyous just thinking about how the Giants ripped their perfect season away from them.

 

And I disagree with your assessment of today. I think the panthers win this one against the 49ers

Edited January 12, 2014 by mrags

[boyst]

Not to be a grammar/syntax nazi, but I really don't know what you mean by that.

I had no idea how to say it elsewise. There was no reason to believe Talib would put together the season he did.

[mrags]

I hate the Pats, but damn if they aren't good at just plugging in role players and supporting their star power with them. I think one really overlooked aspect of FA is that the Pats attract these guys and can usually sign them at market or below -- because they are a winning franchise with consistency and stability at QB. That coupled with shrewd trades yields players who may not be stars, but who star in games because of the Pats' ability to adapt.

 

Blount is one such example, but there are others.

 

It seems like every frigging replacement receiver they get is GREAT at hauling in those passes to the turf from Brady that literally no one else can catch. Good for 7-11 yards a pop. None of them is afraid to get dirty and they all have pretty good hands. And they will most likely play for somebody else the next season and do next to nothing, unless they are catching passes from Peyton or perhaps Luck. It's infuriating.

youve got some great points. And this scares me. The last time the Pats were winning SuperBowls, they had Antoine Smith, Kevin Faulk and Corey Dillon running the ball. Some mix of a very good running attack. With the RBs they have now, they could be very dangerous for years to come. Tom Brady getting up there in age, but all he needs to do is game manage (no one better IMO) and let the ground and pound tear up the AFC. I just hope Billy B doesn't realize this. It could add 5 more years onto Brady's career. Edited January 12, 2014 by mrags

[RuntheDamnBall]

Ok. I'm not arguing with that fact. The Pats deserve credit. Billy B does as well. I'm just a bigger believer that when Tom retires we will see a huge difference.

I think this is entirely possible. If I were the Pats I'd either be looking for a kid to develop, soon, or tank whenever Brady's truly looking in decline, and nab the #1 a la Indy.

 

Please don't share this plan with them.

[Mr. WEO]

 

 

And Talib, their best corner. Their other corner, Dennard, meanwhile, should have been suspended for his legal troubles, but not surprisingly, considering who he plays for, that seems to have been swept under the rug this year.....

 

His DUI was dismissed on Dec 6, so...what is it you're talking about?

[yungmack]

For the record, Blount was a UFA. Watching him and Lynch yesterday playing old-school football (run it down their throats with dominance) made me wonder a couple of things: would the Bills have been better off keeping Lynch? And that game -changing RBs can be found deep into the draft. Or to put it another way, the Spiller pick looks more and more like foolishness.

[mrags]

For the record, Blount was a UFA. Watching him and Lynch yesterday playing old-school football (run it down their throats with dominance) made me wonder a couple of things: would the Bills have been better off keeping Lynch? And that game -changing RBs can be found deep into the draft. Or to put it another way, the Spiller pick looks more and more like foolishness.

the Spiller pick isn't foolish if you utilize him the way he's meant to be utilized. The problem is we don't do that. Chan kind of did but limited his touches. If Chan did what he did last year but have it to him 10 more times a game or more, he would most likely still be our HC. There's no reason why Spiller couldn't be in the same mold of a RB like Tomlinson, Holmes, Faulk.

 

The offense that Marrone runs, it seems like a bigger more physical back is more wanted. Which is why Freddy did so well this year. I'd imagine Freddy and some other RB this year to be the main focus of the running game. CJ might be here, he might not, but I doubt he'll be a big piece based off what we saw this season.

[Rob's House]

the Spiller pick isn't foolish if you utilize him the way he's meant to be utilized. The problem is we don't do that. Chan kind of did but limited his touches. If Chan did what he did last year but have it to him 10 more times a game or more, he would most likely still be our HC. There's no reason why Spiller couldn't be in the same mold of a RB like Tomlinson, Holmes, Faulk.

 

The offense that Marrone runs, it seems like a bigger more physical back is more wanted. Which is why Freddy did so well this year. I'd imagine Freddy and some other RB this year to be the main focus of the running game. CJ might be here, he might not, but I doubt he'll be a big piece based off what we saw this season.

 

I agree with this. It seems fans look at the Spiller pick in the context of picking him for Marrone's/Hackett's system when at the time he was picked it was to play in Chan's system, a system he flourished in.

 

For the record, Blount was a UFA. Watching him and Lynch yesterday playing old-school football (run it down their throats with dominance) made me wonder a couple of things: would the Bills have been better off keeping Lynch? And that game -changing RBs can be found deep into the draft. Or to put it another way, the Spiller pick looks more and more like foolishness.

 

Part of the reason Blount went undrafted is because of character concerns. He missed most of his last season of college ball because he sucker punched an opposing player after a game.

[RuntheDamnBall]

I agree with this. It seems fans look at the Spiller pick in the context of picking him for Marrone's/Hackett's system when at the time he was picked it was to play in Chan's system, a system he flourished in.

Qualifiers:

1) Eventually, and

2) After FJax went down.

 

Spiller did contribute earlier, but I do wish we had already seen more, longer stretches of dominant play from the guy at this point. I do understand that system plays into it a bit, but basics like picking up pass blocking schemes and finding holes have seemed a little harder than they should for the guy. I want to see him destroy fools more often. I know he can.

[MattM]

His DUI was dismissed on Dec 6, so...what is it you're talking about?

 

Assaulting a cop in 2012, getting probation for that and then violating probation for his DUI arrest, which he plead out of by pleading guilty to failing to take a breathalyzer test:

 

http://profootballta...l-after-season/

 

If that had happened to a Bill, he'd be getting slapped with the NFL's version of the cuffs, but, hey, we all know that's not how the NFL rolls when it comes to the Cheats*.

 

For those keeping score at home, here's my personal favorite example of "Patriette* Justice" from the League--bear in mind that in addition to JP, Vince was also fined I believe 3 other times that season, including for an incredibly late hit on Jason Witten:

 

http://sports.espn.g...tory?id=3678394

 

I personally love the touch of bringing his wife to the Goodell meeting and them writing him a "thank you" note after the meeting. How charming....

Edited January 12, 2014 by MattM

[BADOLBILZ]

IMO, if the Pats want to run the ball and keep my team in the game then so be it.

 

The only absolute in the NFL is that you don't win a Super Bowl without an extraordinary QB.

 

I know he is lacking targets but for the first time I see significant physical decline in Brady.

 

His feet are getting very heavy. If he doesn't hit his marks wrt footwork his arm is not strong.

 

For some teams that would be a call to add more targets or do more to protect your QB.

 

But that's not the way the Patriots work under Belichick.

 

John Madden quit after 10 years as Raiders coach because he said he felt that after a while the message got old and wasn't effective with the players any longer.

 

Belichick has kept his message fresh......intentionally or otherwise........by constantly turning over that roster.

 

His message has never been stronger.

 

If I am Tom Brady the thought has to be crossing my mind if 2014 might be my last year in New England and that I will probably have to finish my career elsewhere.

Edited January 12, 2014 by BADOLBEELZ

[MattM]

IMO, if the Pats want to run the ball and keep my team in the game then so be it.

 

The only absolute in the NFL is that you don't win a Super Bowl without an extraordinary QB.

 

I know he is lacking targets but for the first time I see significant physical decline in Brady.

 

His feet are getting very heavy. If he doesn't hit his marks wrt footwork his arm is not strong.

 

For some teams that would be a call to add more targets or do more to protect your QB.

 

But that's not the way the Patriots work under Belichick.

 

John Madden quit after 10 years as Raiders coach because he said he felt that after a while the message got old and wasn't effective with the players any longer.

 

Belichick has kept his message fresh......intentionally or otherwise........by constantly turning over that roster.

 

His message has never been stronger.

 

If I am Tom Brady the thought has to be crossing my mind if 2014 might be my last year in New England and that I will probably have to finish my career elsewhere.

 

I've noticed his seeming decline as well, but have a tough time distinguishing how much is him versus how much is his lack of weapons and familiarity with his receivers. Interesting point about the possibility of him being cut after 2014. That might make even me almost feel sorry for him, but I wouldn't put it past Belicheat. That said, I'm not sure how Kraft would react to that request by BB.

[Rob's House]

I've noticed his seeming decline as well, but have a tough time distinguishing how much is him versus how much is his lack of weapons and familiarity with his receivers. Interesting point about the possibility of him being cut after 2014. That might make even me almost feel sorry for him, but I wouldn't put it past Belicheat. That said, I'm not sure how Kraft would react to that request by BB.

 

I heard someone (I think Wilfork) said that despite the relatively pedestrian stats that Brady may have done his best work this year. I have to admit, although hating Brady and the Pats* is one of my favorite aspects of football fandom, now that he's reaching the twilight of his career some part of me involuntarily pulls for him out of respect for what he's done. I like watching him take it to Luck - after all our ass whippings at his hands I guess it's kind of like the brother you smack around, but you'll be damned if someone else is going to pick on him.

[Mr. WEO]

Assaulting a cop in 2012, getting probation for that and then violating probation for his DUI arrest, which he plead out of by pleading guilty to failing to take a breathalyzer test:

 

http://profootballta...l-after-season/

 

If that had happened to a Bill, he'd be getting slapped with the NFL's version of the cuffs, but, hey, we all know that's not how the NFL rolls when it comes to the Cheats*.

 

For those keeping score at home, here's my personal favorite example of "Patriette* Justice" from the League--bear in mind that in addition to JP, Vince was also fined I believe 3 other times that season, including for an incredibly late hit on Jason Witten:

 

http://sports.espn.g...tory?id=3678394

 

I personally love the touch of bringing his wife to the Goodell meeting and them writing him a "thank you" note after the meeting. How charming....

 

The DA dismissed the charge. There is no DUI conviction.

 

Has Goodell suspended Lynch for his DUI--it was 18 months ago?

Edited January 12, 2014 by Mr. WEO