KOKBILLS Posted January 12, 2014 Posted January 12, 2014 well, hughes contract is up after next season and lawson is about 40 and, you can never have too many passrushers Well... The Bills were 2nd in the NFL in sacks...Manny Lawson is 29 actually, and in the 2nd year of a 4 year contract... Yes Hughes will be a UFA in 2015 but he's a situational guy, and he's certainly resign-able... Furthermore this team has bigger needs...There not in the position to be Drafting to fill a potential UFA loss...They need to build a complete roster first than worry about that stuff down-the-road...
uncle flap Posted January 12, 2014 Posted January 12, 2014 i think they should try to grab murray later in the draft but to draft a qb within the first 3 rounds you are either not giving ej the year or you are not using the new qb you draft and basically not playing him and wasting the pick for this season. i like mack a lot but has he played inside backer at all? I'm looking at the versatility of mosley and he's above mack in that category. IIRC whaley was saying something about the value of LBs going down a bit and people taking them later in the drafts than the past. i think he was talking about it at the draft after party. There's a few scenarios that can unfold during the year wrt to EJ: 1. He plays well, and we are reasonably confident barring some regression that the Bills have found their QB of the future. 2. He has another up and down year, and we can't say one way or the other whether or not he's the QB of the future. 3. He gets injured again, and we can't say one way or the other whether or not he's the QB of the future. 4. He sucks, and we are reasonably confident he isn't going to become the QB of the future. Of course things might not be so cut and dry, but I think we can agree we should be able to more or less categorize whatever happens as one of those scenarios. So, imagine if they do draft a QB that they like in the first round this year. If scenario #1 happens, well, they "wasted" a 1st round pick, but at least they have their franchise QB and some decent trade bait. If #2 happens, they can either give EJ another year, or have an open competition at QB with a guy they like. At least they have a Plan B in the wings if EJ doesn't progress. If #3 happens, they can start the other QB and see what he's got while EJ gets healthy. If the other QB looks better than EJ, he can keep the job. If #4 happens, they can start the other QB from the jump. This other QB will have had a year in the system and the Bills won't be forced to pick a QB high next year that they might not like as much as the guy that people are asking them to pass on this year. Again, I'm not saying that they need to draft a QB this year, but I think it's a good idea, if there is a guy they like, since the jury is out on EJ. I think it's short sighted to say they'd be wasting the pick for the season. If EJ winds up sucking (and I'm not saying he will, I'm optimistic about his development), then what good is having another player at another position? QBs win championships and when a team doesn't have one they shouldn't be dismissing opportunities to find one. I'm not advocating drafting a QB every year until one has a phenomenal rookie season. I'm advocating not passing up drafting a QB that they would otherwise like just because "we think EJ can develop." Mack lined up primarily on the outside but there's no reason to think he couldn't handle ILB responsibilities. He's more than solid in every aspect in his game. If Whaley said that, I would agree. I'd target someone like Skov in the 3rd, depending on whom they draft in the first two.
purple haze Posted January 12, 2014 Posted January 12, 2014 (edited) Sure. Him and Jernigan. Don't wanna go Defense but Jernigan could shore things up 85 bears style ! My personal vote would go to Watkins(by a ton), followed by Mosley or BAMA OL starts with a k at 9. Jernigan would be interesting, but redundant, I think. I’d take Mosley. Best thing Whaley can do for EJ and that offense is get a dominant defense and they are only a couple pieces away from having one. Moseley would be a great pick in terms of talent/position need and value of pick. (and I’m not a “value” guy at all. Just saying what the experts would say.) I figure Bills will take a LB in first. Has anyone seen all three of Mack, Barr and Mosely play? If so, which would be your choice? I haven't watched any of them play a down. Moseley or Mack. They are more versatile. Barr is excellent, but more a straight up pass rush threat and we already have a player like him in Hughes. Edited January 12, 2014 by purple haze
Astrobot Posted January 12, 2014 Author Posted January 12, 2014 (edited) My top 9: Manziel Bridgewater Clowney Watkins Matthews Barr Mack Mosley Ebron Save this list; it could totally go in that order in May! Moseley or Mack. They are more versatile. Barr is excellent, but more a straight up pass rush threat and we already have a player like him in Hughes. Agreed. I think Barr is amazing but you're right. We do have a difference-maker in Hughes. Hughes is sometimes into the neutral zone before the Center snaps the ball, and that's an attribute of Barr as well. Barr is already great, but still green. This was his first full season on the defensive side of the ball after making the transition from the running back position! His leverage and hand placement is All-Pro. That said, teams ran on us up the gut, exceeding 5.5 yards a carry. Teams were unable to run on us wide (<3 ypc). That doesn't scream DE to me. Mack lined up primarily on the outside but there's no reason to think he couldn't handle ILB responsibilities. He's more than solid in every aspect in his game. If Whaley said that, I would agree. I'd target someone like Skov in the 3rd, depending on whom they draft in the first two. Agreed. I won't throw a brick at the TV if Mack is selected before we pick. Picking the ILB who falls to us in RD1-3, and sliding Alonso out would be fine with me. Pick weapons and protection for EJ in RD1-2 if the ILB you want isn't value there. Edited January 12, 2014 by Astrobot
Astrobot Posted January 12, 2014 Author Posted January 12, 2014 the last drafttek mock looked good and id be happy with the first 2 picks 1.mike evans-we need a big WR and he looks to be the part 2eric ebron-he falls to the second and that would be a steal be a pretty crazy draft for us. i would be happy with sammy watkins too i really like him so him or mike evans I'm adding Evans back in but put him below Watkins for sure. We'll take a tall WR and a TE before the draft is done.
Astrobot Posted January 12, 2014 Author Posted January 12, 2014 >>>>>13 Buffalo Grab Darqueze Dennard Michigan State CB<<<<< Please get him off the list ASAP!!! The Bills would be better off with a guard projected to go in round 3. LOL! Will do.
Sumin Posted January 12, 2014 Posted January 12, 2014 It's good you took the CB off the list.. I'd posit that the Bills will not draft a CB this year at all, although a late round flier wouldn't surprise me While the Byrd situation is tenuous, we drafted two safeties last year and besides the injury spree in the beginning of the season, our CBs played just fine. I'd put LB as a far more pressing need on defense, as would many others. As usual, great post Astro. Appreciated.
yungmack Posted January 12, 2014 Posted January 12, 2014 Well... The Bills were 2nd in the NFL in sacks...Manny Lawson is 29 actually, and in the 2nd year of a 4 year contract... Yes Hughes will be a UFA in 2015 but he's a situational guy, and he's certainly resign-able... Furthermore this team has bigger needs...There not in the position to be Drafting to fill a potential UFA loss...They need to build a complete roster first than worry about that stuff down-the-road... I fully agree with you. And I would add that all the talk about "a stud WR or a stud TE" is misguided. While both would be nice to have, neither are a "need" this year. LB seems to be the most crucial area for a #9 pick upgrade. And without a doubt the Oline needs serious shoring up which can be addressed in later rounds. As to the LB the Bills should draft, Barr has only played the position for two years (he was an offensive player) & has done an excellent job so far. I like Mack, but the level of competition he faced versus Barr is vastly different so on that basis alone, I'd lean towards Barr. Another UCLA guy to keep in mind is Cassius Marsh. He came in as a 300 pound DE, dropped his weight to 260 and continued to play outstanding at the position. The thing about him is he is very fast, with high end sideline to sideline ability. And supposedly he's very "football smart." In many ways, he reminds me of Kiko so if he is still there in, say, the third round, he might make a great pick.
thewildrabbit Posted January 12, 2014 Posted January 12, 2014 (edited) I don't think that CB is a big need but I would rather have the top CB in the draft than a 3rd guard. Dennard is a stud even if we don't need him. P.S. If you don't think that the secondary is important please google "Legion of Boom" The Bills already have two #1's at CB....but hey, they need a third for the trifecta. Two #1's at CB, two #2's at safety for the defensive backfield. So, 1-1-2-2 At LBer a #1, a #2, a #6. So, 1-2-6 A #1 overall at DE that you are paying 100 million. a #1 at DT, a #5 all pro DT, a #2 at DE. So, 1-1-5-2 five #1's, four #2's. so nine out of 11 were drafted in the first two rounds on defense. While I wouldn't be upset should the Bills go LBer with this years #9. I'd rather see an OT, or a trade back to get an OG-TE, and extra picks. Edited January 12, 2014 by FeartheLosing
Kirby Jackson Posted January 13, 2014 Posted January 13, 2014 The Bills already have two #1's at CB....but hey, they need a third for the trifecta. Two #1's at CB, two #2's at safety for the defensive backfield. So, 1-1-2-2 At LBer a #1, a #2, a #6. So, 1-2-6 A #1 overall at DE that you are paying 100 million. a #1 at DT, a #5 all pro DT, a #2 at DE. So, 1-1-5-2 five #1's, four #2's. so nine out of 11 were drafted in the first two rounds on defense. While I wouldn't be upset should the Bills go LBer with this years #9. I'd rather see an OT, or a trade back to get an OG-TE, and extra picks. All that I was responding to is that I would rather have the top ranked CB in the draft than an OG with a 3rd round grade at 9.
KOKBILLS Posted January 13, 2014 Posted January 13, 2014 (edited) All that I was responding to is that I would rather have the top ranked CB in the draft than an OG with a 3rd round grade at 9. Well I'm sure you wont have to worry about that... There is at least a chance that a VERY highly rated OT will be available at #9 though...That will be interesting... Edited January 13, 2014 by KOKBILLS
Bills Fan in Beantown Posted January 17, 2014 Posted January 17, 2014 Just watched Greg Robinson in the SEC Championship game (link here: http://www.sbnation.com/nfl-mock-draft/2014/1/13/5302134/2014-nfl-mock-draft-blake-bortles-johnny-manziel). He would be quite a beast to bookend with Cordy.
NewEra Posted January 17, 2014 Posted January 17, 2014 2 things. for the people who want a QB in round 1 . If the qb you want gets picked by the bills and he has a similar year to what ej did minus the injuries do you draft another one? year after year until one has a good rookie year? and what if that player has a RG3 type second year? do we keep drafting qb and scrapping the one prior and knee jerk reactions to year by year qb play?? as for the LBs i think mosley is what would match this team the most he's versatile enough to play ILB and OLB and is a 3 down player he and kiko could just be the all time backers he's really good in coverage and the bills nickel package would be nice. i like mack a lot but he doesn't have the coverage ability that mosley has but has a better pass rushing ability than mosley. i think with these two you have to kinda take the homerism out of it for mack if possible and look what the team might need more. the bills just led the league in sacks and broke the single season record for the franchise. if they grade mack out higher I'm all for it but IMO i think they might need another backer to go with kiko like the 49ers have with bowman/willis but if mack or barr is the next coming of LT or something lets do it. i know i am playing both sides of the ball here. sorry The people who want a QB in round 1 don't overlook the fact that he had 3 knee injuries in less than a season. He played 12 games including the preseason. In 3 of those 12 games, he got injured and missed multiple games due to those injuries. If injuries don't scare you, I don't know what to say. Injuries scare me, especially when it's the franchise QB. I'm not in the boat of drafting a QB just to draft one, but I do think Manziel and Bridgewater are better QBs right now than Ej is. Bortles, not sure. I'd be willing to use a 1st rd pick to upgrade the most important position on the team and give us valuable depth. We need a star QB in a big way. From what I saw last year from Ej, I'd give him a 15-20% chance to develop into a star. Jmo. I'm sure the FO feels Ej is the guy and stays away from drafting a QB early. I'm starting to think mosely is the best fit for us. If we can resign Hughes, we're set at olb with Lawson and Hughes. It would be nice to lineup Kiko and Mosley next to each other inside. Can't go wrong with Greg Robinson either. There's a few scenarios that can unfold during the year wrt to EJ: 1. He plays well, and we are reasonably confident barring some regression that the Bills have found their QB of the future. 2. He has another up and down year, and we can't say one way or the other whether or not he's the QB of the future. 3. He gets injured again, and we can't say one way or the other whether or not he's the QB of the future. 4. He sucks, and we are reasonably confident he isn't going to become the QB of the future. Of course things might not be so cut and dry, but I think we can agree we should be able to more or less categorize whatever happens as one of those scenarios. So, imagine if they do draft a QB that they like in the first round this year. If scenario #1 happens, well, they "wasted" a 1st round pick, but at least they have their franchise QB and some decent trade bait. If #2 happens, they can either give EJ another year, or have an open competition at QB with a guy they like. At least they have a Plan B in the wings if EJ doesn't progress. If #3 happens, they can start the other QB and see what he's got while EJ gets healthy. If the other QB looks better than EJ, he can keep the job. If #4 happens, they can start the other QB from the jump. This other QB will have had a year in the system and the Bills won't be forced to pick a QB high next year that they might not like as much as the guy that people are asking them to pass on this year. Again, I'm not saying that they need to draft a QB this year, but I think it's a good idea, if there is a guy they like, since the jury is out on EJ. I think it's short sighted to say they'd be wasting the pick for the season. If EJ winds up sucking (and I'm not saying he will, I'm optimistic about his development), then what good is having another player at another position? QBs win championships and when a team doesn't have one they shouldn't be dismissing opportunities to find one. I'm not advocating drafting a QB every year until one has a phenomenal rookie season. I'm advocating not passing up drafting a QB that they would otherwise like just because "we think EJ can develop." Mack lined up primarily on the outside but there's no reason to think he couldn't handle ILB responsibilities. He's more than solid in every aspect in his game. If Whaley said that, I would agree. I'd target someone like Skov in the 3rd, depending on whom they draft in the first two. Well put sir
thewildrabbit Posted January 17, 2014 Posted January 17, 2014 The people who want a QB in round 1 don't overlook the fact that he had 3 knee injuries in less than a season. He played 12 games including the preseason. In 3 of those 12 games, he got injured and missed multiple games due to those injuries. If injuries don't scare you, I don't know what to say. Injuries scare me, especially when it's the franchise QB. I'm not in the boat of drafting a QB just to draft one, but I do think Manziel and Bridgewater are better QBs right now than Ej is. Bortles, not sure. I'd be willing to use a 1st rd pick to upgrade the most important position on the team and give us valuable depth. We need a star QB in a big way. From what I saw last year from Ej, I'd give him a 15-20% chance to develop into a star. Jmo. I'm sure the FO feels Ej is the guy and stays away from drafting a QB early. I'm starting to think mosely is the best fit for us. If we can resign Hughes, we're set at olb with Lawson and Hughes. It would be nice to lineup Kiko and Mosley next to each other inside. Can't go wrong with Greg Robinson either. Well put sir Ever have a knee injury with a bad sprain or worse a slight tear? Neither require surgery but both usually require several weeks of rest, and sometime months of rest. The last injury was a knee "sprain" on the same left knee that he injured in pre season. The other injury was a knee sprain on his right knee where he missed four games. So he was rushed back after only two weeks in pre season, then missed four games mid year, then the last two weeks. Those types of injuries often leave the QB with limited mobility, and very susceptible to a strong pass rush. This has to be particularly problematic for a QB who is used to running. Those injuries kept the Bills from utilizing that read option part of their offense. Which really limited what they could do on offense. EJ was never a pro style pocket passer in college, and teams had him rated as a Cam Newton light type. So saying this years injuries hampered his development is an understatement. EJ only missed one game in his final two years in College so he hasn't had a past history of injury issues. I'm hoping the Bills grade EJ as having a much greater then 15-20% chance of becoming a star QB. In fact I hope they grade him at 60% or higher or they better think of drafting a QB at #9 or trading up to get one of the top 3. Personally I'm hoping this season was just a fluke and EJ gets some help in his surrounding cast to help him become a better pocket QB in terms of several upgrades on the line, a top TE like Jimmy Graham, and perhaps a star WR like Eric Decker.
Kirby Jackson Posted January 17, 2014 Posted January 17, 2014 Not to spin this into another EJ thread but I think that his issues are tough to overcome. I think that he has poor vision, footwork and makes bad presnap reads. That does not even get into his accuracy or injury issues. I think that he will be here another year but that I am not confident that he will improve.
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