mannc Posted January 11, 2014 Posted January 11, 2014 Personally, I don't like Byrd/Parker's tactics (faked injury etc), but find it funny that Russ has painted himself in this corner (plus the giveaway home field Please tell us about the faked injury. I must have missed that. Do you have a link?
bananathumb Posted January 11, 2014 Posted January 11, 2014 Please tell us about the faked injury. I must have missed that. Do you have a link? You weren't watching the first few games?
timtebow15 Posted January 11, 2014 Posted January 11, 2014 I know, I know, I know...but, the flip side from the player perspective is that you (the owner) can cut them whenever you want so teams aren't "honoring" those contracts either. Good point, however, it all depends what portion is guarenteed and the smart players exchange a bit of the total contract for more guarenteed money. The owners are honoring the contract in the sense that they have to follow through on what the player agrees to do. I think that's where good agents come in that actually care about the player. I know Byrd is very good and gets to the right place at the right time but he has also been part of a team with a horrible D against the run. How is Byrd in run support? Someone like Troy P (Pitts) in his prime made a difference in all parts of the game and really messed with an offense's game plan. That's a difference maker. I don't see that out of Byrd. That's why I think top 5 money is fair for him. The reason NE wins is they never overvalue their players but move on. The difference is they know how to fill and adapt to the holes they create. They develop people to fill the gaps or find a different strategy. The true genious is in their adaptation not that everything always goes perfect for them. This year is a perfect example. They would never chase after a player like Byrd. In my perfect world we become an organization like New England as much as I hate to say it.
KOKBILLS Posted January 11, 2014 Posted January 11, 2014 Market price. End of story. He's earned it. The estimated Franchise Tag number in 2014 for Safeties is $8.1...So I'm guessing Parker will be looking in excess of $9 mil annually...
papazoid Posted January 11, 2014 Posted January 11, 2014 Please tell us about the faked injury. I must have missed that. Do you have a link? you mean the one he played through in 2012, then after 8 months rest, decided he needed more time until he was 100% healthy before playing in 2013.....that injury.
mannc Posted January 11, 2014 Posted January 11, 2014 (edited) you mean the one he played through in 2012, then after 8 months rest, decided he needed more time until he was 100% healthy before playing in 2013.....that injury. Are you privy to his medical records? What incentive would a free-agent-to-be have to fake or exaggerate an injury? Does Coach Marrone share your opinion about Byrd's injury? Edited January 11, 2014 by mannc
BilLions Posted January 11, 2014 Posted January 11, 2014 With that kind of interest, Byrd's trade value just may be better than his tallent, even as good as he is.
papazoid Posted January 11, 2014 Posted January 11, 2014 Are you privy to his medical records? What incentive would a free-agent-to-be have to fake or exaggerate an injury? Does Coach Marrone share your opinion about Byrd's injury? #1- HIPAA does not allow me to share his medical records. lets be clear, i'm NOT saying he was faking or exaggerating his injury. I believe his foot was injured. i'm questioning why he waited until it was 100% healthy to play in 2013 when he played on it at less than 100% in 2012. #2- his agent is well known for advising his players to HOLDOUT. his incentives in 2012 were no guaranteed money. he needed to play through injury to get a big contract the next season. in 2013 all the franchise tag money is guaranteed wether he plays or not. the less he plays the more likely he will see more guaranteed money in 2014. #3- If Coach Marrone did have any doubts. he would NEVER say so publicly. that would be the kiss of death and Tyrd would never play for him.
mannc Posted January 11, 2014 Posted January 11, 2014 #1- HIPAA does not allow me to share his medical records. lets be clear, i'm NOT saying he was faking or exaggerating his injury. I believe his foot was injured. i'm questioning why he waited until it was 100% healthy to play in 2013 when he played on it at less than 100% in 2012. #2- his agent is well known for advising his players to HOLDOUT. his incentives in 2012 were no guaranteed money. he needed to play through injury to get a big contract the next season. in 2013 all the franchise tag money is guaranteed wether he plays or not. the less he plays the more likely he will see more guaranteed money in 2014. #3- If Coach Marrone did have any doubts. he would NEVER say so publicly. that would be the kiss of death and Tyrd would never play for him. 1) Sure seems to me you are accusing Byrd of faking an injury or malingering. Why else would you keep calling him "Tyrd"? I don't think you're a doctor and you haven't examined Byrd so you know zero about whether he could have or should have played in the first five games of the season. Therefore, it's about time to stop disparaging him. 2) You do know that Byrd didn't hold out, right? 3) Not only did Marrone not accuse Byrd of malingering, he went out of his way to praise him and told the media he had zero problem with Byrd's approach to the injury.
benderbender Posted January 12, 2014 Posted January 12, 2014 1) Sure seems to me you are accusing Byrd of faking an injury or malingering. Why else would you keep calling him "Tyrd"? I don't think you're a doctor and you haven't examined Byrd so you know zero about whether he could have or should have played in the first five games of the season. Therefore, it's about time to stop disparaging him. 2) You do know that Byrd didn't hold out, right? 3) Not only did Marrone not accuse Byrd of malingering, he went out of his way to praise him and told the media he had zero problem with Byrd's approach to the injury. Marrone had no choice but to say he was fine with Byrd. Publicly criticizing Byrd doesn't help the team's future negotiating stance in any way. This doesn't mean Marrone condones Byrd's actions. And also This article says he held out so I don't fault anyone for thinking he did.
purple haze Posted January 12, 2014 Posted January 12, 2014 (edited) Jimmy Leonard had, what-- 5 picks this year? If you are getting that type of production from a scrub off the street, it makes me wonder whether Byrd would be worth it over other cheaper options. By the way, regardless of my view, I think they are going to tag and trade Byrd. they drafted the young guys to replace him. Byrd has almost twice as many INT’s in his five year career as Leonhard does in his 9 year career. Byrd has more than quadruple the the Forced Fumbles. Byrd has more defensed passes. Byrd has just 30 less tackles than Leonhard. Again, Leonhard has played four more seasons. So please, STOP. Leonhard is a good player. Byrd is an elite player at his position, on par with Weddle and Berry who are making top dollar. Byrd should be making top dollar. And if the Bills didn’t tag him a different organization would pay him top dollar. Players who create turnovers consistently are rare. Paying the man should not even be an issue at this point. Of course the Bills want to keep Byrd. But you don't break the bank on any safety in today's game. He is not Ronnie Lott. They will make him a very good settlement offer. But it will not set new standards for safety's, nor should it. He will decide whether to take it. if he doesn't the Bills will tag him. Or trade him if some teams wants to over pay. Bottom line, we have never won many games w Jairus Byrd. Nor have we won many games with anyone on this roster. We need much better QB play. When we get that, we will win a lot more games whoever is playing safety for us. Seriously, do you think the best teams in the NFL overpay for safety's? No, it is not a gamechanging position. There hasn't been one since Ed Reed in his prime 5-7 years ago. So lets get over the Byrd is our savior talk. Because he is not. He is a good player. You forget Troy Polamalu. Eric Berry and Eric Weddle are getting paid top dollar. How much do you think another team would pay to get Byrd in FA? You think he would get as much or more than Weddle or Berry? #1- HIPAA does not allow me to share his medical records. lets be clear, i'm NOT saying he was faking or exaggerating his injury. I believe his foot was injured. i'm questioning why he waited until it was 100% healthy to play in 2013 when he played on it at less than 100% in 2012. Because he was going to be a FA again in 2014 since the Bills didn’t sign him long term. Business decision. A good one too. He doesn’t risk aggravating the plantar fascitis and he plays well as usual once healthy. Edited January 12, 2014 by purple haze
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted January 12, 2014 Posted January 12, 2014 Byrd has almost twice as many INT’s in his five year career as Leonhard does in his 9 year career. Byrd has more than quadruple the the Forced Fumbles over that same span. STOP. Leonhard is a good player. Byrd is an elite player at his position, on par with Weddle and Berry who are making top dollar. Byrd should be making top dollar. And if the Bills didn’t tag him a different organization would pay him top dollar. Players who create turnovers are rare. Paying the man should not even be an issue. But the issue is allocation of resources, isn't it? You can't have a pro bowler at every position. So the question is whether it is worth having a great but high priced safety in Byrd (and presumably not put money in other positions) or a pair of fairly competent but low priced guys in Leonard/searcy. In my mind, if not paying Byrd meant re-signing Aaron Williams, Dareus, and Hughes, that would be tough to swallow.
papazoid Posted January 12, 2014 Posted January 12, 2014 Byrd has almost twice as many INT’s in his five year career as Leonhard does in his 9 year career. Byrd has more than quadruple the the Forced Fumbles. Byrd has more defensed passes. Byrd has just 30 less tackles than Leonhard. Again, Leonhard has played four more seasons. So please, STOP. Leonhard is a good player. Byrd is an elite player at his position, on par with Weddle and Berry who are making top dollar. Byrd should be making top dollar. And if the Bills didn’t tag him a different organization would pay him top dollar. Players who create turnovers consistently are rare. Paying the man should not even be an issue at this point. You forget Troy Polamalu. Eric Berry and Eric Weddle are getting paid top dollar. How much do you think another team would pay to get Byrd in FA? You think he would get as much or more than Weddle or Berry? Because he was going to be a FA again in 2014 since the Bills didn’t sign him long term. Business decision. A good one too. He doesn’t risk aggravating the plantar fascitis and he plays well as usual once healthy. and he left the last game injured.......so just in case the bills tag him again......he can wait until he is 100% healthy before playing in 2014.
papazoid Posted January 13, 2014 Posted January 13, 2014 1) Sure seems to me you are accusing Byrd of faking an injury or malingering. Why else would you keep calling him "Tyrd"? I don't think you're a doctor and you haven't examined Byrd so you know zero about whether he could have or should have played in the first five games of the season. Therefore, it's about time to stop disparaging him. 2) You do know that Byrd didn't hold out, right? 3) Not only did Marrone not accuse Byrd of malingering, he went out of his way to praise him and told the media he had zero problem with Byrd's approach to the injury. if you don't like the word holdout, what do you call the time when Tyrd is refusing to sign his Franchise tag tender until after every offseason workout and training-camp practice was over. then signed it right before the regular season started so he wouldn't miss a paycheck ? his agent calls it "leverage"....
mannc Posted January 13, 2014 Posted January 13, 2014 if you don't like the word holdout, what do you call the time when Tyrd is refusing to sign his Franchise tag tender until after every offseason workout and training-camp practice was over. then signed it right before the regular season started so he wouldn't miss a paycheck ? his agent calls it "leverage".... I don't call it anything. Byrd was not under contract. A holdout is when a player is under contract but refuses to report unless and until he gets a new deal. Byrd was not under contract. He had no obligation to report until he signed the franchise tender offer. As soon as he signed it, he reported.
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted January 13, 2014 Posted January 13, 2014 Can AW replace Byrd?No. AW is a SS, Byrd is a FS, and they are best in those spots Of course AW can play FS. If you play corner, FS is a much more natural transition than SS. Conventional SS's are frequently small linebackers where are conventional FS's are slower cornerbacks. Depending on coverages the lines are further blurred, but make no mistake: AW could absolutely play free safety at a high level I the NFL based on this seasons performance.
Cash Posted January 13, 2014 Posted January 13, 2014 Of course AW can play FS. If you play corner, FS is a much more natural transition than SS. Conventional SS's are frequently small linebackers where are conventional FS's are slower cornerbacks. Depending on coverages the lines are further blurred, but make no mistake: AW could absolutely play free safety at a high level I the NFL based on this seasons performance. I agree, but then we'd still need a new SS to replace Aaron Williams. And I'd argue that there would be a dropoff at FS from Byrd to Williams. Maybe not a massive one as Williams gets more comfortable at safety, but a dropoff nonetheless. There is definitely a price point/contract demand at which it makes sense to let Byrd walk or try a tag & trade, but in my estimation, that price point is somewhere around Troy Polamalu's contract. I really have no idea what Byrd's asking for, but if it's on par with Eric Berry's deal, I think the Bills should pay up.
NoSaint Posted January 13, 2014 Posted January 13, 2014 Will Byrd even play if he is tagged? Look what he pulled this year. I don't want a repeat of that. He is a solid free saftey but not spectacular. Okay, he is excellent. But $10M a year? We have other more important needs at linebacker and guard. Interceptions are overrated as an indicator of play. Sometimes they are caused by pressure, sometimes by tips. As it was pointed out Leonard had five! With Gilmore, McKelvin and Williams we looked pretty good. I'd let Bryd go as a necessary evil and find more depth in the secondary. Just my opinion and I hated the attitude he displayed this year. His agent is what's wrong with the game. You play by the league rules and when you sign a contract you honor it. I can't stand when these guys complain about getting the tag and making a ton of money. If you don't want the tag sign a long term deal but stop whining about it! The Bills offer was fair and they are just using the strategy that exists under league rules when you choose not to accept it. we dont know that he pulled anything. he mightve been injured, right? the guy has been productive for 5 years, so lets not act like it was a fluke lucky couple of picks here we dont know what the bills offered. otherwise....... But the issue is allocation of resources, isn't it? You can't have a pro bowler at every position. So the question is whether it is worth having a great but high priced safety in Byrd (and presumably not put money in other positions) or a pair of fairly competent but low priced guys in Leonard/searcy. In my mind, if not paying Byrd meant re-signing Aaron Williams, Dareus, and Hughes, that would be tough to swallow. that might be a stretch with an "or" and you used an "and" now we cant resign 3 players because we are paying byrd?
papazoid Posted January 13, 2014 Posted January 13, 2014 we dont know that he pulled anything. he mightve been injured, right? the guy has been productive for 5 years, so lets not act like it was a fluke lucky couple of picks here we dont know what the bills offered. otherwise....... that might be a stretch with an "or" and you used an "and" now we cant resign 3 players because we are paying byrd? he was injured.....he was NOT "faking" an injury. the Plantar Faciitis is real and it is painful. he was just exercising his right to wait until it was 100% healthy (you know, like all the other players do) to play in 2013 after resting for 8 months after playing through the same injury in 2012 when it was less than 100%. cue the apologists who will claim we don't know which year hurt more. absent the written sworn testimony some need before they believe what the press was told, we do know what the bills offered (Top 5 money). we also know that his agent wants Top 1 money.
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