The Affordable Care Act II - Because Mr. Obama Loves You All

[Dorkington]

 

PM sent.

 

Why answer it via PM? It's a good point of discussion for this thread. Is there any medical innovation in countries with single payer/universal healthcare systems?

[B-Large]

 

 

Spending one's own money first may be a premise behind the ACA, but that plus increasing premiums plus higher deductibles do not add up to holding the line on health care costs.

 

But higher deductibles does if you subscribe to the consumer driven competition model. If people need to cover the first 5k, do you think they are willy billy about going in unless the have to? It funny, some of the rubbing nickel together Americans see premiums and deductibles as outrageous, for your health, but don't think twice alloting 2500 a year for TV service. I wonder about people's priorities sometimes.

[Tiberius]

 

 

Why answer it via PM? It's a good point of discussion for this thread. Is there any medical innovation in countries with single payer/universal healthcare systems?

Yes,

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_pharmaceutical_companies

[TakeYouToTasker]

 

 

Why answer it via PM? It's a good point of discussion for this thread. Is there any medical innovation in countries with single payer/universal healthcare systems?

Because I decided to send it via PM.

[PearlHowardman]

Explain please.

 

Sure. Obamacare is a total rip off. There's a lot of Americans who purchase ACA plans with high monthly premiums, high deductibles, high copays, and no out of network benefits. If Republicans start to point to the American middle class how they're getting screwed by these lousy ACA plans they can get support.

 

Isn't individuals spending a lot of their own money first the premise behind high deductible plans and HSA's? Isn't that the premise for driving prices down as consumers choose where to spend their money? So are you advocating that once you pay your monthly, every penny is covered?

 

ACA health insurance plans SUCK!! What's the point of buying a health insurance plan if you're likely to never get any financial benefit from it? For most people, Obamacare is a complete rip off!!

[JuanGuzman]

Despite Healthcare.gov's botched rollout, federal budget forecasters now expect Obamacare's insurance exchanges to cover slightly more people with less money.

 

The Congressional Budget Office now estimates that 25 million people will gain insurance through the new marketplaces over the next decade. That's an increase from 24 million, the agency's last projection.

 

But here's what's most surprising: CBO thinks that, even as the exchanges insure slightly more people, the overall price tag for everyone goes down. It now expects the federal government to spend $104 billion less on the coverage expansion.

 

CBO's new forecasts reflect the fact that premiums on the exchange have come in slightly lower than initially expected. The ones being sold this year tend to pay doctors less and have "narrower networks of providers." When health plans contract with fewer doctors, they typically can negotiate cheaper prices with the few physicians they do include in their networks.

 

When premiums are lower, that means the federal government pays less to subsidize people buying insurance. CBO says the federal government is, on average, spending $300 less per person on insurance subsidies than it had expected.

 

ttp://www.vox.com/2014/4/14/5613346/obamacares-price-tag-just-got-cut-by-104-billion

 

 

[Keukasmallies]

Obamacare, poorly written, ambiguous, cobbled together...who would'a thunk it?

 

It seems the "law" forgot to specifically say that the federal exchanges were qualified to grant subsidies to those who enrolled through them.

 

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2014/04/little-known-legal-challenge-that-could-torpedo-obamacare/?google_editors_picks=true

 

Oh my, whoever would have guessed....? Maybe Nancy and Harry can fix it when they get back to the shop.

[PearlHowardman]

CBO's new forecasts reflect the fact that premiums on the exchange have come in slightly lower than initially expected. The ones being sold this year tend to pay doctors less and have "narrower networks of providers." When health plans contract with fewer doctors, they typically can negotiate cheaper prices with the few physicians they do include in their networks.

 

That's all fine and well for the government and insurance companies but what about the consumer?

 

No out of network benefits is bad. Throw in high premiums (slightly lower?) and high deductibles and high copayments and you have people paying for insurance that they will never use.

 

The middle class is getting hosed big time!!

 

Fewer doctors in the networks mean cheaper prices? Wouldn't it be the other way around????

Edited April 15, 2014 by PearlHowardman

[OCinBuffalo]

From Ezra Klein: Sebelius is resigning because Obamacare has won. :lol:

 

Try not to piss your pants when you read this.

 

That, ladies and gentlemen, is going full gatorman.

"What exactly is your your problem Mr. Billz-Fan? Mr. Ezra Klien started vox dot com so he could explain things to you, and he is one of the finest teachers we have. It's not Ezra's fault if you can't understand his lessons. He's doing a find job of teaching you the proper way to look at this. Therefore, the fault must lie with you, the student. You seem to require additional instruction, since you have a history of trouble-making with your damned common sense and real business experience. So, I am putting you on detention, indefinitely.

 

If I had my way, you'd be sent to a intensive explanation facility, conducted by Ezra and other fine teachers, 24/7. That would be the best way to meet your special needs. Then, you'd realize that there was never any point in being a Republican, or libertarian, or anything else that is offensive to properly educated people. Unfortunately, we do not have the budget for that, thanks to the Republicans. See? Now who feels foolish? That's just one example of things you don't know, because you refuse to take Ezra's instruction. I'm trying to help you here, we all are.

 

I understand that you have some trouble wiht Ezra telling you:

We don't yet know how many young people signed up in March, but it's clear that there are enough of them to keep premiums stable in 2015

and that you are having a problem understanding this, Mr. Billz-Fan. Please understand: We can very easily know something, and not know it, at the same time. Because. It's clear. You still don't understand? Fine. I shall give you an example: there is absolutely nothing wrong with this:

It's clear that insurers are going to stick with the program in 2015, and compete hard to sign up next year's wave of young, healthy applicants.

It is clear. Now you are just being obstinate, Mr. Billz-Fan. Mr. Klein has said it is clear, therefore, it is. Once we say something is clear, that's it. It's settled. Because we said it is clear. Insurers aren't going to quit the program or raise their rates in 2015. Because there is a massive wave of healthy, young applicants coming in 2015, and obviously insurers will want to compete for their business, thus they will stick with the program and offer stable rates, which will attract the wave of kids. That has been made clear.

 

No, that is not circular reasoning, Mr. Billz-Fan. It is clear reasoning, that you seem unable to grasp, which is why you will spend most of your time in detention learning about clear reasoning.

 

You have a lot of learning yet to do, Mr. Billz-Fan. I suggest you get to it, and start paying better attention in Mr. Klien's class. You don't want to spend the rest of the semester in my office, do you?"

 

 

It doesn't change the basic premise though. It is fatally flawed, so I don't need to take a wait and see position. As constituted today, it is and will be a complete failure.

Massive design flaws rarely need to be put into production to be seen and corrected ahead of time...by those with the traning/experience to see them. The design flaws that you see? You see them because you have said training/experience. Others, like Ezra Klien have no experience, therefore the above idiocy makes it past their BS filter, and into their posts.

Edited April 15, 2014 by OCinBuffalo

[Keukasmallies]

White House lies just don't seem to attract the attention they used to get. Investigative reporting found that the WH knew two - three years ago that millions would lose their health insurance, BUT the liberal media stifled any mention of it; and now the reporter, Lisa Myers, has magically left the network to pursue other interests. Smell, what smell....?

 

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2013/10/29/lisa-myers-ignores-her-own-obamacare-bombshell-nbc-nightly-news

[JuanGuzman]

WASHINGTON — The Census Bureau, the authoritative source of health insurance data for more than three decades, is changing its annual survey so thoroughly that it will be difficult to measure the effects of President Obama’s health care law in the next report, due this fall, census officials said.

The changes are intended to improve the accuracy of the survey, being conducted this month in interviews with tens of thousands of households around the country. But the new questions are so different that the findings will not be comparable, the officials said.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/16/us/politics/census-survey-revisions-mask-health-law-effects.html'>http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/16/us/politics/census-survey-revisions-mask-health-law-effects.html

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/16/us/politics/census-survey-revisions-mask-health-law-effects.html

 

I normally post positive Obamacare stories since i believe the policy is much better than the status quo, but I thought I would post a negative story. This is disappointing, i hope its purely a coincidence, but the fact the new data won't be comparable to the old and that will overstate obamacares impact is concerning.

 

There are ways out there to measure the data but I still dislike this change,

[3rdnlng]

http://www.nytimes.c...aw-effects.html

 

http://www.nytimes.c...aw-effects.html

 

I normally post positive Obamacare stories since i believe the policy is much better than the status quo, but I thought I would post a negative story. This is disappointing, i hope its purely a coincidence, but the fact the new data won't be comparable to the old and that will overstate obamacares impact is concerning.

 

There are ways out there to measure the data but I still dislike this change,

 

Rest assured that this smoke and mirrors administration is doing this to make it difficult for ObamaCare to be judged on its merits.

[DC Tom]

http://www.nytimes.c...aw-effects.html

 

http://www.nytimes.c...aw-effects.html

 

I normally post positive Obamacare stories since i believe the policy is much better than the status quo,

 

And you rarely post.

 

Coincidence?

[JuanGuzman]

And you rarely post.

 

Coincidence?

 

You still don't think Obama Care is going to work?

[B-Large]

Sure. Obamacare is a total rip off. There's a lot of Americans who purchase ACA plans with high monthly premiums, high deductibles, high copays, and no out of network benefits. If Republicans start to point to the American middle class how they're getting screwed by these lousy ACA plans they can get support.

 

 

 

ACA health insurance plans SUCK!! What's the point of buying a health insurance plan if you're likely to never get any financial benefit from it? For most people, Obamacare is a complete rip off!!

 

 

Question: Is you auto policy a rip off when you go 10 years paying and not claiming... I guess it is until you slide on ice into an intersection, total 3 cars including your own, kill someone accidently and end up in the ICU yourself for 2 weeks... all of the sudden, pretty valuable.

 

Question: if you howewoners a rip off when you have paid 30 year worht of premium, no claims? It is until you house gets hit by lighting, burns to the ground and you insurer rebuilds it to current code.

 

Question- If you 20 Year Term Life policy a rip off when you have paid 19 years and haven't died?- I guess until you are in the ICU after the accident, perhaps you passed, and you wife or man lover now have the money to replace your income?

 

Question- is disability insurance a rip off? Perhaps, until that car accident leaves you disbaled for a few years and replaces 60% of your income so you don;t end up on the streets.

 

Health insurance is no different. I paid 15 years of premiums, in that time had 4-5 PCP exams, 3 lipid panels.- that is nothing, nothing as far as usuage, and I never made my deductible. on that 15th year, I had 3 biopsies for 9K, $6,500 for tissue genome testing and a thyroidectomy, 35K- sure it was a rip off, until that $50,500 bill came a rollign along- pretty ddarn happy that risk pool had my name ojn it, and I had claim to a piece of it. I am lucky I didn't need radiation therapy and further treatment, but should I have needed it, by plan kicked in.

 

truth is, everybody need coverage- you haven't been sick yet, you will be at some point, its almost an absolute. Healthcare is expensive in theis country, that is why premiums are high and dedictibkles are high. there is not free lunch, you don;t get to have great care on not pay for it- even though I think many peopel think that they should.

Edited April 15, 2014 by B-Large

[IDBillzFan]

Health insurance is no different.

Except no one is forcing you to drive a car, own a home or buy life insurance.

[B-Large]

That's all fine and well for the government and insurance companies but what about the consumer?

 

No out of network benefits is bad. Throw in high premiums (slightly lower?) and high deductibles and high copayments and you have people paying for insurance that they will never use.

 

The middle class is getting hosed big time!!

 

Fewer doctors in the networks mean cheaper prices? Wouldn't it be the other way around????

 

your understanding of the healthcare challenges and realities prior to and after HCR is impressively bad.

 

Except no one is forcing you to drive a car, own a home or buy life insurance.

 

I'd be fine with that notion if people who didn't want insurance never sought more care than they were able to pay for. Unfortuantly those big talkers rarely stuck to their principles and stopped showing up if they could not pay. It amazing how threats to mortality skews principle.

 

edit- as far as homeowners, you are forced to pay for howeowners- I take into account when I rent property that the tenant pays the cost of insurance- so not directly, but everybody pays for homeowners when their is a mortgage on the property at least- even then, why woud someone be without. Theorectially, by bus fare pays for the city liability coverage- life insurance, no, and it many cases its pointless.

Edited April 15, 2014 by B-Large

[Chef Jim]

your understanding of the healthcare challenges and realities prior to and after HCR is impressively bad.

 

 

 

I'd be fine with that notion if people who didn't want insurance never sought more care than they were able to pay for. Unfortuantly those big talkers rarely stuck to their principles and stopped showing up if they could not pay. It amazing how threats to mortality skews principle.

 

edit- as far as homeowners, you are forced to pay for howeowners- I take into account when I rent property that the tenant pays the cost of insurance- so not directly, but everybody pays for homeowners when their is a mortgage on the property at least- even then, why woud someone be without. Theorectially, by bus fare pays for the city liability coverage- life insurance, no, and it many cases its pointless.

 

Sorry but homeowners is not required by law. It's required by the lender becaues they own a part and often a very large part of your home.

Edited April 15, 2014 by Chef Jim

[3rdnlng]

You still don't think Obama Care is going to work?

 

ObamaCare was fatally flawed when it was passed and it still is fatally flawed. What has changed over the last few years to improve the risk pool?

[DC Tom]

Question: Is you auto policy a rip off when you go 10 years paying and not claiming... I guess it is until you slide on ice into an intersection, total 3 cars including your own, kill someone accidently and end up in the ICU yourself for 2 weeks... all of the sudden, pretty valuable.

 

Question: if you howewoners a rip off when you have paid 30 year worht of premium, no claims? It is until you house gets hit by lighting, burns to the ground and you insurer rebuilds it to current code.

 

Question- If you 20 Year Term Life policy a rip off when you have paid 19 years and haven't died?- I guess until you are in the ICU after the accident, perhaps you passed, and you wife or man lover now have the money to replace your income?

 

Question- is disability insurance a rip off? Perhaps, until that car accident leaves you disbaled for a few years and replaces 60% of your income so you don;t end up on the streets.

 

Health insurance is no different. I paid 15 years of premiums, in that time had 4-5 PCP exams, 3 lipid panels.- that is nothing, nothing as far as usuage, and I never made my deductible. on that 15th year, I had 3 biopsies for 9K, $6,500 for tissue genome testing and a thyroidectomy, 35K- sure it was a rip off, until that $50,500 bill came a rollign along- pretty ddarn happy that risk pool had my name ojn it, and I had claim to a piece of it. I am lucky I didn't need radiation therapy and further treatment, but should I have needed it, by plan kicked in.

 

truth is, everybody need coverage- you haven't been sick yet, you will be at some point, its almost an absolute. Healthcare is expensive in theis country, that is why premiums are high and dedictibkles are high. there is not free lunch, you don;t get to have great care on not pay for it- even though I think many peopel think that they should.

 

Health insurance is extraordinarily different. Your other examples are examples of insurance as insurance: a financial device intended for risk-mitigation and used as such. Health insurance hasn't worked that way in years, and certainly doesn't work that way at this point. The intended use as embodied under the ACA is for the provision of health care at affordable prices. NOT as a financial risk management tool.

 

Health insurance is analogous to car insurance that covers major damage...and oil changes, new wipe blades, ten gallons of gas a week, and a monthly car wash.