The Affordable Care Act II - Because Mr. Obama Loves You All

[IDBillzFan]

I love the smell of Pelosi sweat in the morning.

 

Truth is, I give Stretch credit for doing this. From the moment she opted to elevate herself to some deity-like status, marching with the gavel after getting the black congressmen to lie about being called racist names as they walked through the protesters, it was clear she would ultimately need to stand in the face of overwhelming evidence of failure, incompetence and unintended consequences and pull a Kevin Bacon in Animal House moment.

 

Wouldn't be surprised to see her retired after this term.

Edited March 21, 2014 by LABillzFan

[B-Man]

Lol........hopefully "Uncle Joe" will keep talking during their "final 10 day push"

 

Vice President of these United States, Joe Biden on Obamacare today: "We shouldn't be surprised that it's complicated for people who have never had insurance."

 

"And adding to the difficulty, we didn't help you too much on the front-end here."

 

 

Can’t you just picture Obama facepalming when he hears that?

[B-Large]

So here a question. Its always been maintained that people can just pay the tax and not buy ACA plans, but the enrollment period ends 3/31. So if you pass on buyign and do not have a qualifying event, and you get sick, you can't just sign up... I like the way this was written more and more.

[OCinBuffalo]

As a liberal, I continue to find this "solution" disappointing. It still baffles me that we don't have some sort of universal solution.

As a liberal, given the default liberal understanding of business and economics in general, and creating and selling health insurance products specifically, you being baffled is hardly a shocker.

 

You know what else isn't shocking? That you are blissfully ignorant of how universal health care actually works in places where it exists(meaning: it's not universal, and largely relies on Soviet-style bribery and "side-payments" to actually get to see the doctor now, and not in 6 months). You guys love to show graphs and charts of per capita spending....that don't even come close to showing the actually $ spent per capita, because they only show government spending, and not the "side payments", which in almost every country, EXCEED the government payments.

 

You never understand, therefore cannot explain, what "universal" actually means. It means: the government is a deadbeat, who legislates their way into not paying full price for any health care service, and calls that "cost cutting". Real health care cost cutters, like myself, laugh at this assertion, because not only do these governments not cut cost, they aren't even aware of what the costs actually are. They just set arbitrary reimbursement rates based on fudged data, that is based on nothing other than some tool's machinations on a whimsical spreadsheet. It's never based on real data, because they can't be bothered to collect the real data. To be fair: almost every provider sucks at this too, and then they lie about it. So none of these groups, not the insurance companies, not the government, not the providers, and certainly not the surveyors, are operating on the truth.

 

I know this: because I have objectively observed it now in over 100 health care facilities.

 

If universal health care works as designed and promised, why does private insurance exist in every single country where it has been deployed? What is "universal" about doling out health care on a 100% class-based system? With the 4 classes, in order of who gets the best health care, being:

1. Government employees, or those associated with them

2. The wealthy, and those associated with them

3. People who work for big corporations/professionals who can afford to pay for private insurance

4. Everybody else(EDIT: otherwise known as the F'ed class, who get the "universal" insurance)

 

You say you want universal health care, but, you are completely uninformed as to its practical applications in the real world. Where did you get idea that universal health care actually accomplished its stated purpose? Where exactly? What experience does that source have in the systems and processes involved in health care delivery? Have they spent any time in a health care facility, objectively observing anything?

 

No. They talk out their ass, about something they have 0 experience with, and their "reasoning" is actually: emoting.

Can’t you just picture Obama facepalming when he hears that?

Yeah actually, I can't. That would require self-examination, and not believing in one's own BS.

 

But enough about this, here's something really important:

 

Approval of obamacare nosedives among hispanics

 

Oh, but I thought the Rs were "demographically" screwed, and were never going to win another national election, because of Hispanics?

 

Yeah, that was never, ever, ever reality. As a theory, it has already been debunked, theoretically, and now? Here's the empirical evidence that follows the debunking.

 

They can keep telling themselves latinos = they win. But only a fool believes it. Hispanics, just like the Irish back in the day, aren't about to live on the government plantation. In fact, that's largely counter to their entire culture...if...anybody had ever bothered to learn/study anything about their culture. I have. I spent a whole year immersed in it. The closest white culture to HIspanic? Polish. Yeah, hard work, very religious, very disciplined when working, very fun when playing, these are their values. They have practically nothing in common with liberal values.

 

But you go ahead and keep lying to yourselves, and pretending that Hispanics want to be liberals/take liberal handouts, and not be libertarians who keep a close eye on their Catholic religious freedom.

Edited March 21, 2014 by OCinBuffalo

[Deranged Rhino]

http://twed.com/some-guy-posted-his-hospital-bill-online-youll-see-why-everyones-talking-about-it/

[DC Tom]

http://twed.com/some...lking-about-it/

 

I don't think anyone ever argued that health care costs weren't absurd.

 

Too bad the ACA does nothing to address those.

[OCinBuffalo]

So here a question. Its always been maintained that people can just pay the tax and not buy ACA plans, but the enrollment period ends 3/31. So if you pass on buyign and do not have a qualifying event, and you get sick, you can't just sign up... I like the way this was written more and more.

Look like somebody forgot about the recent "hardship" delay? extension? whatever.

 

All I have to do is claim hardship now, and sign up for it later, and only if I have to, because I get sick later. Meawhile, temporary insurance has been left completely alone, is cheaper than Obamacare by in many cases 50%, and you can cancel at any time.

 

Therefore, the smart play: do temporary, pay the fine, and only sign up for Obamacare if something catastrophic happens, which would probably be a qualifying event anyway.

 

That's how this was written, and you like it? You don't like it if you want Obamacare to survive. Which, even given the overestimated #s this WH puts out, say: it ain't.

[Deranged Rhino]

I don't think anyone ever argued that health care costs weren't absurd.

 

Too bad the ACA does nothing to address those.

No argument, just wasn't worth starting a new thread for it so I crammed it in here.

[OCinBuffalo]

http://twed.com/some...lking-about-it/

I don't think anyone ever argued that health care costs weren't absurd.

 

Too bad the ACA does nothing to address those.

No argument, just wasn't worth starting a new thread for it so I crammed it in here.

I'm working on it. Give me time please.

 

Dealing with this is like dealing with North Korean level arrogance+incompetence.

 

They all claim to know everything about everything in their facilities, including cost, but, it doesn't take long to punch Mack truck sized holes in that, like I've done in this very thread. See: "I know how much an MRI costs" No way. No chance. Not ever.

 

The trouble is: getting them to stop being so damn insecure and putting up a huge front of nonsense as a result. It takes time for them to realize we can help them. It just takes time. Sales cycles in health care are the longest we've ever seen. However, I don't blame the average joe health care administrator.

 

This is largely the fault of 2 things: incompetent/lazy IT firms, who work in health care, because nobody else would hire them, and, constant government/lawyer attacks on their business. They are afraid of getting burned, again, and for most of them, it's been 20+ years of the same thing.

 

Example: I just opened the data model of a health care software system, that has been sold as a "new product" to a potential client of ours. It's been in place for 2 years: you know what I found? The entire thing was unchanged from the AS400 days, all they did was rewrite the old data model in SQL Server. 360+ tables....2 foreign keys relationships. Complete and total fraud has been perpetrated here, because this client was sold an "SQL database" There's nothing in this model that is relational at all, well, except the 2 foreign keys.

 

You might as well be looking at COBOL or Mumps. And you laugh: Mumps is all over the place in health care, and they wonder why historical data takes so long? It's a hierarchical DB, and mapping all those nodes for a query? In 2014?

 

Like I said: we need time. This is so F'ed up on so many levels, time is the only way to fix it.

Edited March 21, 2014 by OCinBuffalo

[IDBillzFan]

All I have to do is claim hardship now, and sign up for it later

 

It takes the mind of a pure progressive to create and pass a law designed to save people from hardship while simultaneously telling people the law creates a hardship that permits them to avoid the hardship so they can stick with their regularly scheduled hardship.

 

Maybe next time we vote for a president, America will work harder to remember what Martin Luther King urged us to do.

[B-Large]

Oh yes, and the guy redoing our roof told me he is thinking of leaving the country, with healthcare reform among other items, this country is becoming Socialist.. he plans to go to Australia.

 

I wonder what he will think of their Nationalized Healthcare System?

 

Americans- so outraged, so poorly informed, so much fun to listen too.

 

Look like somebody forgot about the recent "hardship" delay? extension? whatever.

 

All I have to do is claim hardship now, and sign up for it later, and only if I have to, because I get sick later. Meawhile, temporary insurance has been left completely alone, is cheaper than Obamacare by in many cases 50%, and you can cancel at any time.

 

Therefore, the smart play: do temporary, pay the fine, and only sign up for Obamacare if something catastrophic happens, which would probably be a qualifying event anyway.

 

That's how this was written, and you like it? You don't like it if you want Obamacare to survive. Which, even given the overestimated #s this WH puts out, say: it ain't.

 

Hardship would almost surely mean completely subsidized policies. Why would would not having insurance be better than having insurance. That makes no sense.

 

As a liberal, I continue to find this "solution" disappointing. It still baffles me that we don't have some sort of universal solution.

 

A double down on a convoluted, adminstratvely inneffient mess that costs way more and delivers the same or less than comparative systems in advanced nations.

 

Whats not too like?

 

What will be great is when the GOP unveils its replacement, and it is essentially the exact same after special interests gets their cuts again, but it will be completely different and free market because the legislation will have the word Freedom or Choice in it...

 

Its a circus- and expensive one that fails to meets Americans needs in many respects, but still fund to watch. Different Circus, Same Clowns.

Edited March 21, 2014 by B-Large

[OCinBuffalo]

It takes the mind of a pure progressive to create and pass a law designed to save people from hardship while simultaneously telling people the law creates a hardship that permits them to avoid the hardship so they can stick with their regularly scheduled hardship.

 

Maybe next time we vote for a president, America will work harder to remember what Martin Luther King urged us to do.

Just to be clear, I'm not saying any of this is wrong/right(largely because I don't think any of it fits into wrong/right.)

 

And, neither can liberals. They stripped all the morality out of this thing, as you said, and also because of the Cornhusker Kickback/Louisiana purchase, and toggling between mandate/tax based purely on convenience.

 

So, all that's left is: self-interest. Only a fool would sign up for Obamacare, given the # of exceptions/waivers/hardship/whatevers.

 

My advice: Just do what I said above, save $, get care, and ignore the people telling you that you are doing something wrong. You aren't doing anything other than refusing to be a mark in this hustle. There's never anything wrong with not being a mark.

[B-Large]

Just to be clear, I'm not saying any of this is wrong/right(largely because I don't think any of it fits into wrong/right.)

 

And, neither can liberals. They stripped all the morality out of this thing, as you said, and also because of the Cornhusker Kickback/Louisiana purchase, and toggling between mandate/tax based purely on convenience.

 

So, all that's left is: self-interest. Only a fool would sign up for Obamacare, given the # of exceptions/waivers/hardship/whatevers.

 

My advice: Just do what I said above, save $, get care, and ignore the people telling you that you are doing something wrong. You aren't doing anything other than refusing to be a mark in this hustle. There's never anything wrong with not being a mark.

 

Or people who are on their own now, and want to have insurance coverage because they do not have an employer including it intheir pay package. I'd rather have coverage than no coverage... but thats just me, too much to protect.

[Nanker]

http://twed.com/some...lking-about-it/

Well, someone's got to cover the people who go to the ER for their primary care and then skip out because they don't have any money to pay for the services rendered to them.

 

Hey - it's the LAW! It even says so in the ER - in twice languages, even... ¡Es la ley!

[OCinBuffalo]

Hardship would almost surely mean completely subsidized policies. Why would would not having insurance be better than having insurance. That makes no sense.

You don't get it.

 

If I am a 27 year old contract programmer, who makes $80k a year, and am self-employed?

 

What I said above makes perfect sense. I declare hardship, so I don't even have to pay the fine, and then get temporary. What stops me? Nothing.

 

I pay 1/2 of what Obamacare wants, and I can change my plan at any time, meaning I keep shopping down my premium every month.

 

This is literally what kids I know are doing....but yeah...they don't make sense. Btw? These kids have a track record of making sense.

[B-Large]

You don't get it.

 

If I am a 27 year old contract programmer, who makes $80k a year, and am self-employed?

 

What I said above makes perfect sense. I declare hardship, so I don't even have to pay the fine, and then get temporary. What stops me? Nothing.

 

I pay 1/2 of what Obamacare wants, and I can change my plan at any time, meaning I keep shopping down my premium every month.

 

This is literally what kids I know are doing....but yeah...they don't make sense. Btw? These kids have a track record of making sense.

 

So you don't report your income for Federal taxes?

 

So you work the system and then when you need a couple of hundred thousand in care, you pass it onto everybody else because you were above contribution to risk pools? Thats come perosnal responsibility for ya. If you think stealing money from others and getting a free ride is ok, then that is your choice, you have to look in your own mirror. I don't live my life that way, I pay my share, I am glad I did when I ran up 50K in Medical Bills last year- you don't have to thank me, I pay my own way, always have always will.

 

and yes, I get it. Its all about YOU, even if it is on the back of others. Oh, I get it.

Edited March 21, 2014 by B-Large

[DC Tom]

So you don't report your income for Federal taxes?

 

That's not the only definition of 'hardship.'

 

And you forget the White House statement some months back that declared the ACA a hardship under the ACA.

[B-Large]

That's not the only definition of 'hardship.'

 

And you forget the White House statement some months back that declared the ACA a hardship under the ACA.

 

I guess it comes down to ethics then- are you truly hard up, or just don't want to pay for anything. Not different than people who collect welfare rather than trying to get a job and get out... just easier to work the system.. one of the same in my view.

[Nanker]

You forgot to read the part of the law that says it will stop people from jobbing the system.

It's one of the benefits enumerated on page 6,2133,382 somewhere. Just ask Stretch. She's the ACA expert.

[IDBillzFan]

Americans- so outraged, so poorly informed, so much fun to listen too.

 

No argument here. Especially after the last two presidential elections. You don't get more poorly informed than those who thought Barry in office for four more years was a good idea.