Doc Brown Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 The Choice Program ran out of money and Congress has not reauthorized Another problem with the government being incompetent which is why single payer would probably be a disaster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 Another problem with the government being incompetent which is why single payer would probably be a disaster. How could that be? The government knows best. They're efficient. They know how to negotiate lower costs from insurance companies and Pharma too. If the ACA has shown us anything - it's the veracity of those statements. Lower premiums - check. Keep your healthcare plan - check. Keep your Doctor - check. 30 million more people insured - check. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 On health care, the wrong party is being called 'extremist' by Jonah Goldberg Will the real moderate party please stand up? On the same day socialist Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) introduced his “Medicare for All” health-care plan, Sens. Lindsey Graham (R-SC) and Bill Cassidy (R-La.) introduced a last-ditch effort to sorta-kinda repeal and replace ObamaCare. Despite having zero chance of being passed any time soon, Sanders’ bill grabbed the limelight for two reasons. First, it’s a beacon of hope for the demoralized Democratic base. As a Rolling Stone headline put it, “Single-Payer Movement Shows: Life After Trump May Not Suck.” Second, Sanders got 15 co-sponsors — including some Democratic senators with presidential ambitions. The fact that so many contenders signed on to a bill that, if enacted, would throw 100 million Americans off their employer-provided health care and cost taxpayers an estimated $32 trillion over a decade revealed just how far to the left the Democratic Party has moved. And yet, to listen to Democrats and many of the journalists who love them, you’d think it was the Republican proposal that’s extreme. “In reality, Graham-Cassidy is the opposite of moderate,” The New York Times’ Paul Krugman pronounced. “It contains, in exaggerated and almost caricature form, all the elements that made previous Republican proposals so cruel and destructive.” {snip} That’s what’s so silly about the claim that Graham-Cassidy is as “extreme” as Sanders’ radical and shoddily written proposal (the bill is totally silent on how to pay for any of it). Graham-Cassidy is very close to the kind of legislation we would have ended up with if Republicans had an idea of what they wanted from the get-go and the Democrats were interested in compromise. But we live in a time when extremism is defined as not getting everything you want. MORE AT THE LINK: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 it's a full-time job following the nuances of law-making who has time for that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 There have to be Democrats out praying each night that the Republicans actually get their act together and just crush the health care system. Some Republicans are just figuring their big money donors will return those tax cuts from health care into campaign donations to try and blame Democrats and get through elections Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keepthefaith Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 (edited) There have to be Democrats out praying each night that the Republicans actually get their act together and just crush the health care system. Some Republicans are just figuring their big money donors will return those tax cuts from health care into campaign donations to try and blame Democrats and get through elections More than 70% of counties in the U.S. now have only 1 Obamacare insurance provider. That's not so good for choice and competition. We just got our 2018 company health insurance renewal rates. Same Blue Cross coverage as 2017 will increase next year by 18%. That's on top of every other annual increase of similar or greater amounts that we've had for nearly all of the last 7 years or so. We are looking at rates nearly triple what they were before the ACA. My personal plan next year, family of 5 healthy people will have an annual premium of $27,000 plus a $5,500 family annual deductible for all services. So we pay $32,500 next year before we see any benefit. None of the other major carriers are materially less expensive for the same coverage. It's the Fedex/UPS model. All charge the same, but you can pick your favorite carrier logo. These are real number folks. Yup, Obamacare is working quite well. Edited September 20, 2017 by keepthefaith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Brown Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 More than 70% of counties in the U.S. now have only 1 Obamacare insurance provider. That's not so good for choice and competition. We just got our 2018 company health insurance renewal rates. Same Blue Cross coverage as 2017 will increase next year by 18%. That's on top of every other annual increase of similar or greater amounts that we've had for nearly all of the last 7 years or so. We are looking at rates nearly triple what they were before the ACA. My personal plan next year, family of 5 healthy people will have an annual premium of $27,000 plus a $5,500 family annual deductible for all services. So we pay $32,500 next year before we see any benefit. None of the other major carriers are materially less expensive for the same coverage. It's the Fedex/UPS model. All charge the same, but you can pick your favorite carrier logo. These are real number folks. Yup, Obamacare is working quite well. I don't know what state you live in, but can you explain to me how the passage of the new GOP bill will decrease the amount you have to pay? I'm still having trouble wrapping my head around how premiums will go down when the individual mandate is eliminated and most of the ACA provisions and taxes are left in place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keepthefaith Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 (edited) I don't know what state you live in, but can you explain to me how the passage of the new GOP bill will decrease the amount you have to pay? I'm still having trouble wrapping my head around how premiums will go down when the individual mandate is eliminated and most of the ACA provisions and taxes are left in place. I don't know the details of the latest Republican plan but I doubt it will have a significant impact on insurance cost. The ACA was not designed to help people who already had private insurance. The intent was to deliver a benefit to more lower income people, to subsidize insurance to another group of people, to grind the crap out of those providers that must accept Medicaid and Medicare and to spend less on the end of life for old people. Private insurance rates have been burdened by a lot of this as reimbursements to medical providers have to be higher for the privately insured so that the government and insurers can pay less for medicaid/medicate/Obamacare policies. Case in point, a local hospital which might collect 40% of "list price" for a service from a high quality insurance company often only collects 5% from Medicaid for the same service delivered. Doctor groups in this area are sending people with Medicaid, Medicare or other crappy insurance to hospitals for tests and procedures that they otherwise perform in their office for patients with "good insurance". It's a totally !@#$ed up system that pays significantly discriminatory rates based upon who is paying. Some (private insurance) have to pay more so some (government or Obamacare insurance) can pay less. It's a hidden tax on private insurance. Obamacare has so many other dumb aspects that restrict competition and choice. For example: 1. Only "qualified plan recipients" can have a Health Savings Account. That should be available to everyone. 2. Mandating coverage for things like mental health, maternity care and other what should be "optional" coverages raises cost of basic plans. 3. Not being able to change carriers at any time unless you have a "qualifying event" means you only have brief windows in which to change coverage. 4. Small businesses in this state (IL) with under 20 employees are rated on their individual demographics while over 20 employees are rated on the larger pool of people meaning lower rates for those often. Larger companies get better rates as carriers compete more for their business. 5. Since insurance is restricted to within the state, carriers have a protected market and set rates in lockstep with each other. (Fedex/UPS model). 6. Employers pick the plans and carriers to be offered to employees meaning there aren't many choices of coverage for many people and companies have to choose from "government approved" plans. Obamacare mandate made this worse. If you want to pay less in premium and choose a higher deductible as your HSA account grows you can't do it. 7. Obamacare coverage level mandates eliminated many choices that were available before. We have fewer choices of products and carriers than we had 10 years ago. 8. Obamacare does not allow for people to be rated on their own health. No incentive to take better care of yourself. 9. Obamacare provided subsidies to states for those buying through exchanges but only for a few years. Now rates through the state exchange are astronomical and fewer people are buying it. In this state nobody pays more for insurance than small businesses or the few individuals using the exchange who don't get a subsidy. Edited September 20, 2017 by keepthefaith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALF Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 (edited) More than 70% of counties in the U.S. now have only 1 Obamacare insurance provider. That's not so good for choice and competition. We just got our 2018 company health insurance renewal rates. Same Blue Cross coverage as 2017 will increase next year by 18%. That's on top of every other annual increase of similar or greater amounts that we've had for nearly all of the last 7 years or so. We are looking at rates nearly triple what they were before the ACA. My personal plan next year, family of 5 healthy people will have an annual premium of $27,000 plus a $5,500 family annual deductible for all services. So we pay $32,500 next year before we see any benefit. None of the other major carriers are materially less expensive for the same coverage. It's the Fedex/UPS model. All charge the same, but you can pick your favorite carrier logo. These are real number folks. Yup, Obamacare is working quite well. $27,000 +$5,500 deductible makes manufacturing jobs in this country unable to compete with other countries. Minimum wage jobs only have medicaid that pays very little for medical services. In the past millions of manufacturing jobs had medical coverage to keep overall costs down. To say the healthcare system needs major reform is a extreme understatement . 6 promises Trump has made about health care http://www.politico.com/story/2017/03/trump-obamacare-promises-236021 Edited September 21, 2017 by ALF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 I don't know the details of the latest Republican plan but I doubt it will have a significant impact on insurance cost. The ACA was not designed to help people who already had private insurance. The intent was to deliver a benefit to more lower income people, to subsidize insurance to another group of people, to grind the crap out of those providers that must accept Medicaid and Medicare and to spend less on the end of life for old people. Private insurance rates have been burdened by a lot of this as reimbursements to medical providers have to be higher for the privately insured so that the government and insurers can pay less for medicaid/medicate/Obamacare policies. Case in point, a local hospital which might collect 40% of "list price" for a service from a high quality insurance company often only collects 5% from Medicaid for the same service delivered. Doctor groups in this area are sending people with Medicaid, Medicare or other crappy insurance to hospitals for tests and procedures that they otherwise perform in their office for patients with "good insurance". It's a totally !@#$ed up system that pays significantly discriminatory rates based upon who is paying. Some (private insurance) have to pay more so some (government or Obamacare insurance) can pay less. It's a hidden tax on private insurance. Obamacare has so many other dumb aspects that restrict competition and choice. For example: 1. Only "qualified plan recipients" can have a Health Savings Account. That should be available to everyone. 2. Mandating coverage for things like mental health, maternity care and other what should be "optional" coverages raises cost of basic plans. 3. Not being able to change carriers at any time unless you have a "qualifying event" means you only have brief windows in which to change coverage. 4. Small businesses in this state (IL) with under 20 employees are rated on their individual demographics while over 20 employees are rated on the larger pool of people meaning lower rates for those often. Larger companies get better rates as carriers compete more for their business. 5. Since insurance is restricted to within the state, carriers have a protected market and set rates in lockstep with each other. (Fedex/UPS model). 6. Employers pick the plans and carriers to be offered to employees meaning there aren't many choices of coverage for many people and companies have to choose from "government approved" plans. Obamacare mandate made this worse. If you want to pay less in premium and choose a higher deductible as your HSA account grows you can't do it. 7. Obamacare coverage level mandates eliminated many choices that were available before. We have fewer choices of products and carriers than we had 10 years ago. 8. Obamacare does not allow for people to be rated on their own health. No incentive to take better care of yourself. 9. Obamacare provided subsidies to states for those buying through exchanges but only for a few years. Now rates through the state exchange are astronomical and fewer people are buying it. In this state nobody pays more for insurance than small businesses or the few individuals using the exchange who don't get a subsidy. Which is why its such a better option to tinker and fix this system than simply blow up the law. There will always being complaining and whining about health care for people to make lists about. So if the GOP makes a new law, it will draw all sorts of criticism and hurt the Republicans and not just regular people. Have at it, I say Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary M Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 To say the healthcare system needs major reform is a extreme understatement . It's not HEALTH CARE it's insurance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 It's not HEALTH CARE it's insurance Yes...however, both the health care and health insurance systems need reform. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALF Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 It's not HEALTH CARE it's insurance OK insurance , healthcare is good for those who are covered , how do you cover everyone ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 OK insurance , healthcare is good for those who are covered , how do you cover everyone ? when 85% are happy with their coverage, you try to help out the 15% with as little pain as possible to that 85%? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALF Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 when 85% are happy with their coverage, you try to help out the 15% with as little pain as possible to that 85%? The number of Americans without health insurance rose in first quarter 2017 11.3 percent of U.S. adults were without health insurance coverage in the first quarter https://www.cnbc.com/2017/04/11/the-number-of-americans-without-health-insurance-rose-in-first-quarter-2017.html 323 million 11.3% = 36.5 million That's more then the population of Canada Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 Canada chose to go with single payer (and private option) 60 or so years ago. But we are a different people and climate, so good luck there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALF Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 I like the Canada system , but that's just me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 Our insurance companies are so indelibly linked to health care I don't think they can be removed with a major shock to the economy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 The number of Americans without health insurance rose in first quarter 2017 11.3 percent of U.S. adults were without health insurance coverage in the first quarter https://www.cnbc.com/2017/04/11/the-number-of-americans-without-health-insurance-rose-in-first-quarter-2017.html 323 million 11.3% = 36.5 million That's more then the population of Canada If only the Democrats read the bill before they passed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 If only the Democrats read the bill before they passed it. Oh look, a horse's ass can vomit out a talking point....again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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