The Affordable Care Act II - Because Mr. Obama Loves You All

[Magox]

 

 

Your own article contradicts your post.

 

 

 

As it stands now, these entitlements are ponzi schemes, taking from workers and giving to retirees.

 

You didn't read the entire article, did you?

 

Or at the very least you didn't understand what you were reading.

 

If you went on to read the very following sentences you would have read this:

 

The situation is more complicated than that.

It’s true that workers fork over Social Security and Medicare taxes every payday. But under current law, over their lifetimes most Americans will get back substantially more from these programs then they’ve paid in, even after accounting for inflation and adjusting for interest you might have earned if you’d kept the money.

That’s primarily due to the rising value of projected Medicare health benefits. Social Security is a different story. In recent years the raising of the Social Security retirement age, plus other tweaks, have made the big retirement income entitlement less generous. New retirees won’t get back quite as much income support as they’ve contributed in Social Security taxes.

However, individual tax/benefit ratios for both programs are highly variable, depending on lifetime earnings, longevity, marital status, and health conditions.

Got all that? We weren’t kidding when we said it was “complicated.”

 

 

 

You complained that you were paying five times more than what ALF or some other Medicare recipients were paying, you're not. Because presumably he paid into Medicare throughout much of his adult life.

 

What you copied and pasted referred to people getting more back in benefits than what they paid into the program. That's a whole another argument.

Edited July 19, 2017 by Magox

[ALF]

 

No, too many geriatrics would come at them.

It'd be like night of the living dead in DC.

 

Today there are 46 million over 65 not all vote 15% of total population

 

Total number voters 2016 129 million

 

Which age group has clout ?

 

The number of Americans ages 65 and older is projected to more than double from 46 million today to over 98 million by 2060, and the 65-and-older age group’s share of the total population will rise to nearly 24 percent from 15 percent.

http://www.prb.org/Publications/Media-Guides/2016/aging-unitedstates-fact-sheet.aspx

Edited July 19, 2017 by ALF

[Joe Miner]

 

You didn't read the entire article, did you?

 

Or at the very least you didn't understand what you were reading.

 

If you went on to read the very following sentences you would have read this:

 

 

 

You complained that you were paying five times more than what ALF or some other Medicare recipients were paying, you're not. Because presumably he paid into Medicare throughout much of his adult life.

 

What you copied and pasted referred to people getting more back in benefits than what they paid into the program. That's a whole another argument.

I disagree with the statement that you get back more than what you would have had you invested the money.

 

Lifetime contributions of $361k and they get a whopping $457k in benefits? Maybe they need to talk to Chef.

[Magox]

I disagree with the statement that you get back more than what you would have had you invested the money.

 

Lifetime contributions of $361k and they get a whopping $457k in benefits? Maybe they need to talk to Chef.

 

Good point. But that wasn't my presumption.

[snafu]

Are the lobbyists the ones who go on the air every single day conflating the issues?

No, but advertising dollars do go a long way.

 

My point was that people aren't necessarily stupid. They're distracted. They vote representatives into congress to represent their interests. That's not happening with regard to this particular issue (I'll limit it to this issue).

[Doc Brown]

Fox News Poll on Health Care

 

-60% want to keep Obamacare and make it better. 33% want to throw it out and start over. 7% hung up phone angrily because they called during dinner.

-74% want GOP to reach out to Democrats on health care (86% of Democrats and 59% of Republicans).

-25% approval of 2nd Senate Health Bill (52% among Republicans)

-63% wants changes made to increase the number of people ensured even if it means more government spending.

-32% of voters approve of Trump's handling of health care. 59% oppose.

-37% "extremely" frustrated with Trump, 33% with congressional Republicans, 24% with congressional Democrats, 27% with news media.

 

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/07/19/fox-news-poll-74-percent-want-gop-to-reach-out-to-democrats-on-health-care.html

[Magox]

Fox News Poll on Health Care

 

-60% want to keep Obamacare and make it better. 33% want to throw it out and start over. 7% hung up phone angrily because they called during dinner.

-74% want GOP to reach out to Democrats on health care (86% of Democrats and 59% of Republicans).

-25% approval of 2nd Senate Health Bill (52% among Republicans)

-63% wants changes made to increase the number of people ensured even if it means more government spending.

-32% of voters approve of Trump's handling of health care. 59% oppose.

-37% "extremely" frustrated with Trump, 33% with congressional Republicans, 24% with congressional Democrats, 27% with news media.

 

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/07/19/fox-news-poll-74-percent-want-gop-to-reach-out-to-democrats-on-health-care.html

 

 

Not surprising, at all.

BUT THE NARRATIVE!

 

HHS analysis finds Cruz amendment lowers premiums, boosts enrollment.

 

To be honest with you, I've been somewhat surprised at the constructive role that Cruz has been playing in all this. I still think it is largely self-serving but it's constructive none the less which is much better than what he had been doing his first years as a Senator. It appears that somehow these plans would also be thrown into the same risk pools as the QHP policies, which is something that I wasn't aware of. I'd still like to hear more how that would work but if that is the case then I suppose I could see how that works.

 

That's a potential game changer, it will be interesting to see how the CBO scores it. This was scored by HHS which of course is led by Tom Price so there is valid reasoning for skepticism. Not to say that Tom Price is a shady or anything along those lines but he clearly is biased.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

 

You didn't read the entire article, did you?

 

Or at the very least you didn't understand what you were reading.

 

If you went on to read the very following sentences you would have read this:

 

 

 

You complained that you were paying five times more than what ALF or some other Medicare recipients were paying, you're not. Because presumably he paid into Medicare throughout much of his adult life.

 

What you copied and pasted referred to people getting more back in benefits than what they paid into the program. That's a whole another argument.

 

I'm talking monthly cost. I pay about 550 a month for a plan with a 5000 dollar deductible.

 

He pays like 110 with none

 

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAND I've paid medicare taxes for....28 years now?

 

So don't make presumptions. Also, i have like 20 years of paying premiums PLUS taxes to go. Minimum.

Edited July 20, 2017 by joesixpack

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

 

 

Today there are 46 million over 65 not all vote 15% of total population

 

Total number voters 2016 129 million

 

Which age group has clout ?

 

The number of Americans ages 65 and older is projected to more than double from 46 million today to over 98 million by 2060, and the 65-and-older age groups share of the total population will rise to nearly 24 percent from 15 percent.

 

http://www.prb.org/Publications/Media-Guides/2016/aging-unitedstates-fact-sheet.aspx

Too many old !@#$ers

[Chef Jim]

We have to fix the broken pieces of healthcare painful negotiated step by step. It won't be easy or fun.

 

But let it fail is not governance. It's fiddling while Rome burns.

If they had only done what many of us from the start we're saying. Build this plan bit by bit. Take your time and implement the easier parts (whatever those may have been) first. We'd likely have a workable plan by now. But no. They rammed the whole monstrosity down our throats in one shot.

[Benjamin Franklin]

If they had only done what many of us from the start we're saying. Build this plan bit by bit. Take your time and implement the easier parts (whatever those may have been) first. We'd likely have a workable plan by now. But no. They rammed the whole monstrosity down our throats in one shot.

Of course. But what's done is done. Now move forward.

 

Blaming Hillary and Obama and Bush accomplishes nada to move us forward.

[Doc Brown]

To be honest with you, I've been somewhat surprised at the constructive role that Cruz has been playing in all this. I still think it is largely self-serving but it's constructive none the less which is much better than what he had been doing his first years as a Senator. It appears that somehow these plans would also be thrown into the same risk pools as the QHP policies, which is something that I wasn't aware of. I'd still like to hear more how that would work but if that is the case then I suppose I could see how that works.

 

That's a potential game changer, it will be interesting to see how the CBO scores it. This was scored by HHS which of course is led by Tom Price so there is valid reasoning for skepticism. Not to say that Tom Price is a shady or anything along those lines but he clearly is biased.

 

 

Why did Mike Lee oppose the bill then? Cruz and him both sprang from the Tea Party movement and see eye to eye on most issues. It looked like a backroom deal between the two. Cruz is the guy that tried to save it gearing up for his 2024 run while Lee is the brave conservative to oppose the bill.

[ALF]

Repeal and delay is back, and even worse than Trumpcare

Repealing Obamacare without implementing a replacement would have even more devastating consequences than Trumpcare. It would result in 18 million people losing their coverage the first full year after the bill’s enactment.

That number would rise to 32 million by 2026, according to the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office, which scored the repeal and delay plan when it was proposed in 2015.

https://thinkprogress.org/repeal-and-delay-is-back-and-even-worse-than-trumpcare-765b6d2ab88d

At the same time, it would double health care insurance premiums by 2026, budget analysts concluded.

http://azdailysun.com/news/local/cbo-repeal-only-to-cost-million-their-health-insurance/article_38c58e4e-eac1-5c89-ac67-1951d30f5770.html

Edited July 20, 2017 by ALF

[Benjamin Franklin]

My guess is it's going to be a vote to repeal by end of 2019, and a promise to replace by then.

 

That way the Reps can say they repealed the ACA and punt the replacement bill until after the midterms.

 

It's the cowardly thing to do. So that's how it's likely to happen.

[Magox]

 

I'm talking monthly cost. I pay about 550 a month for a plan with a 5000 dollar deductible.

 

He pays like 110 with none

 

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAND I've paid medicare taxes for....28 years now?

 

So don't make presumptions. Also, i have like 20 years of paying premiums PLUS taxes to go. Minimum.

 

 

Aaaaand

 

 

we're done here.

[B-Man]

..

[Chef Jim]

Of course. But what's done is done. Now move forward.

 

Blaming Hillary and Obama and Bush accomplishes nada to move us forward.

Dumb attitude. Let's ram repeal and replace down our throats just as ACA was. Govement is terrible at learning from their mistakes. Hell they don't even recognize mistakes.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

My guess is it's going to be a vote to repeal by end of 2019, and a promise to replace by then.

 

That way the Reps can say they repealed the ACA and punt the replacement bill until after the midterms.

 

It's the cowardly thing to do. So that's how it's likely to happen.

 

If you're expecting the Democrats to cooperate on a replacement bill, you're probably in need of Lithium.

 

Repeal is a good start.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

Fox News Poll on Health Care

 

-60% want to keep Obamacare and make it better. 33% want to throw it out and start over. 7% hung up phone angrily because they called during dinner.

-74% want GOP to reach out to Democrats on health care (86% of Democrats and 59% of Republicans).

-25% approval of 2nd Senate Health Bill (52% among Republicans)

-63% wants changes made to increase the number of people ensured even if it means more government spending.

-32% of voters approve of Trump's handling of health care. 59% oppose.

-37% "extremely" frustrated with Trump, 33% with congressional Republicans, 24% with congressional Democrats, 27% with news media.

 

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/07/19/fox-news-poll-74-percent-want-gop-to-reach-out-to-democrats-on-health-care.html

That's a FOX Poll?

 

Holy ****!!!!

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

That's a FOX Poll?

 

Holy ****!!!!

 

once you create an entitlement

 

it never leaves