Magox Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 Got a better idea? Magox, I like you, I really do. But i think you're having a reading comprehension problem. In no way, shape or form is health insurance LESS expensive now than it was pre-ACA, regardless of where you are in the USA. That's factual. That's not what I said. This is what I said: The irony of this strategy is that all the places where people vote for Democrats the ACA is working ok. All the places where Trump wants to let it fail are the places that voted for him. that healthcare is not more affordable in Urban America where the population centers are relative to Rural America. So even though in the Urban centers premiums have risen (although not as sharply as Rural America), the vast majority of those people that obtained health insurance (83%) are receiving subsidies to offset those increases. Meaning that even though the underlying price has risen somewhat sharply, 6 out of every 7 people who are buying those plans aren't really feeling that increase all that much. What are we talking about here? Let's not lose fact of that, which is that Trump says "Let it fail". Ok, the problem is that where most of the Democratic voters live are areas that are at less risk of the ACA marketplace collapsing than where most Trump voters live which is the more rural parts. It's not a viable solution and doesn't make sense and really isn't what the president of the country should be doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 (edited) That's not what I said. This is what I said: So even though in the Urban centers premiums have risen (although not as sharply as Rural America), the vast majority of those people that obtained health insurance (83%) are receiving subsidies to offset those increases. Meaning that even though the underlying price has risen somewhat sharply, 6 out of every 7 people who are buying those plans aren't really feeling that increase all that much. What are we talking about here? Let's not lose fact of that, which is that Trump says "Let it fail". Ok, the problem is that where most of the Democratic voters live are areas that are at less risk of the ACA marketplace collapsing than where most Trump voters live which is the more rural parts. It's not a viable solution and doesn't make sense and really isn't what the president of the country should be doing. Serious question: When ACA has been a real killer to ME, why should I care if it fails elsewhere? I really don't care if it fails where people are receiving subsidies. The subsidies themselves are unjust. Defund the subsidies and it WILL fail in those urban areas. Edited July 19, 2017 by joesixpack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grinreaper Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 The Republicans are split, the Democrats will never vote for a Republican plan, so nothing is going to happen until either the Democrats see it in their advantage to work with the Republicans or the ACA is repealed. The Democrats have shouldered the blame for the ACA for nearly 8 years and would like nothing better than a new plan, all Republican, to switch who gets the blame. Washington politics as usual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 Serious question: When ACA has been a real killer to ME, why should I care if it fails elsewhere? I really don't care if it fails where people are receiving subsidies. The subsidies themselves are unjust. Defund the subsidies and it WILL fail in those urban areas. That's fine and that is your opinion. I'm simply pointing out that for Trump's agenda and what I believe he should be doing that letting the ACA marketplaces simply just "fail" aren't in his or the people who will lose their health insurance best interest. I don't understand how you believe subsidies are unjust yet you are for Medicare-for-all health insurance which is single payer healthcare. How do you square those two beliefs that you hold? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 That's fine and that is your opinion. I'm simply pointing out that for Trump's agenda and what I believe he should be doing that letting the ACA marketplaces simply just "fail" aren't in his or the people who will lose their health insurance best interest. I don't understand how you believe subsidies are unjust yet you are for Medicare-for-all health insurance which is single payer healthcare. How do you square those two beliefs that you hold? Actually I was FOR no reform. If you go back and search, you'll find that to be the case. However, I also noted that IF you were going to do this, you may as well just go to medicare-for-all since the ONLY thing Obamacare was designed to do is make the private insurers fail. My thinking was it'd be better to just utilize the existing bureaucracy rather than waste time and money on a new one. And subsidies are unjust because they allow the poor to escape the costs the rest of us are buried under. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 Until the republicans actually manage to make any kind of change to the ACA, the democrats will get full credit for whatever transpires. So basically what I am getting here is that it won't get fixed because the Dems are not allowed to help make changes to the Republican plan and all the blame will rest on the Dems regardless. The Reps had little to do with the first plan so they think that by repeating the Dems mistake all will be well. What a circle jerk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azalin Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 (edited) So basically what I am getting here is that it won't get fixed because the Dems are not allowed to help make changes to the Republican plan and all the blame will rest on the Dems regardless. The Reps had little to do with the first plan so they think that by repeating the Dems mistake all will be well. What a circle jerk. If that's what you took away from my post, then you're as perceptive as a potato. Edited July 19, 2017 by Azalin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 The Republicans are split, the Democrats will never vote for a Republican plan, so nothing is going to happen until either the Democrats see it in their advantage to work with the Republicans or the ACA is repealed. The Democrats have shouldered the blame for the ACA for nearly 8 years and would like nothing better than a new plan, all Republican, to switch who gets the blame. Washington politics as usual. Is there really a great groundswell of popular feeling to make changes? Obamacare is now popular Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koko78 Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 We have to fix the broken pieces of healthcare painful negotiated step by step. It won't be easy or fun. But let it fail is not governance. It's fiddling while Rome burns. Negotiate with who? The Democrats have made it abundantly clear that they're not interested in anything other than playing at being a juvenile "resistance". The only proposals they have made are bandaids to keep Obamacare a thing, that will ultimately do nothing to fix the systemic problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 BYRON YORK: No surprise: On Obamacare, GOP senators don’t do what they don’t want to do. Back to the drawing board on health insurance reform. It’s just a step to the left… and then a step to the left. Democrats Will Soon Regret That Republicans Failed To Repeal ObamaCare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin Franklin Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 Negotiate with who? The Democrats have made it abundantly clear that they're not interested in anything other than playing at being a juvenile "resistance". The only proposals they have made are bandaids to keep Obamacare a thing, that will ultimately do nothing to fix the systemic problems. Good leaders find a way. There are Rs and Ds who will talk to one another. Start at the middle and ignore the extreme jerkoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 Good leaders find a way. There are Rs and Ds who will talk to one another. Start at the middle and ignore the extreme jerkoffs. The problem now is that they've lost any potential leverage for crafting a Bipartisan health bill, whatever they do now with Democrats would be largely written by Schumer and Pelosi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALF Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 (edited) If Trump and a republican Congress screw up healthcare the pendulum will swing left in 2018. Many millions of people are now receiving needed healthcare under ACA who were not before. Is this bad? Fix the problems , maybe that is too complicated for a republican Congress. I'm Independent , I really don't support either partisan party right now. Edited July 19, 2017 by ALF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin Franklin Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 The problem now is that they've lost any potential leverage for crafting a Bipartisan health bill, whatever they do now with Democrats would be largely written by Schumer and Pelosi Schumer and Pelosi aren't good leaders. Not for America anyways. A few from from both parties need to go rogue on their party and take their health care case directly to America. It won't be a perfect bill but that's compromise. The Dems got a lot wrong in the ACA but having it fail, whatever awful thing that means, is not a responsible option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 Trump was just saying how premiums would fall 60-70% under the Republican plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALF Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 Trump was just saying how premiums would fall 60-70% under the Republican plan. Maybe if they go to Medicare for all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 Maybe if they go to Medicare for all That's not how that works Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALF Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 (edited) Maybe if they go to Medicare for all That's not how that works Republicans would not go there of course. After 7 years they have no clue how to fix ACA If they don't fix ACA, 2018 and 20 will Edited July 19, 2017 by ALF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Brown Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 Republicans would not go there of course. After 7 years they have no clue how to fix ACA I'm assuming you mean come up with a replacement plan. They don't plan to "fix" the ACA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALF Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 (edited) I'm assuming you mean come up with a replacement plan. They don't plan to "fix" the ACA. Late edit , 2018 and 20 elections will fix ACA one way or the other , imo Edited July 19, 2017 by ALF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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