Joe Miner Posted July 19, 2017 Posted July 19, 2017 I've been wrong plenty of times about various things. With that said, I think this is a tough one for the GOP, they over promised what they cannot deliver. The country with the media helps will incessantly focus on 3 things and only one of them is something that the GOP's ideas could help A) Expanding coverage - GOP fails this test (from the perspective of more than half the country and the media) B) Pre Existing coverage - GOP fails this test (from the perspective of more than half the country and the media) C) Reducing Premiums - This is where the GOP could score well but even then there is a caveat, they would be reducing some coverage for this to happen and even then they still get bad media coverage. Not to mention that the Democrats are proposing Subsidies which lowers people's premiums My hopes is that the GOP accepts the fact that the country wants expanded coverage and realizes that their only hope of instituting a long-term solution that could be viable would include a government partnership with the market driven concepts. There are lots of things that they could do that could work and achieve all of the above. If the system begins to work and coverage doesn't drop off all that badly from where it is along with more choice and lower premiums then there is a chance it could sustain itself. The problem is that what the ACA does is something that people can actually see, feel and benefit from. When people get Medicaid, that is a direct benefit that constituent receives. When someone didn't have coverage and was denied to Pre Ex and now is able to get coverage, that is something they feel the impact of that benefit. When someone gets a big subsidy to help pay for their coverage and now are paying much less, again it is a direct benefit. It's hard to take that away once it has been given. Many conservatives offer market driven ideas with more choice which lowers premiums for some middle class folks. But in comparison to what the Dem's offer with the subsidies, more people benefit than those that suffer the rising premiums. In regards to taxes and what it does to the National Debt, the majority of the taxes are levied on the wealthy, so people by in large don't have a problem with that. The debt, and the hidden taxes no one really seems to care anymore. For most people it is abstract concept where they don't see the impact of what these things do. Their perception is that they don't feel the impact of increasing debt and taxes, but if you take away their healthcare that was given to them, then that is something that they will noticeably feel. There is no unicorn of a plan that can be put in place to fix this and hit all 3 of your points. Even the best sounding plans/ideas come with a heaping helping of 'hopefully sustainable' talk. There is not a viable silver bullet for this mess. In my humble opinion it's mostly because everyone is fixated on providing health insurance to all instead of actually addressing the cost of health care. Insurance, on it's face, is not a solution a rational thinking person would suggest for the entire health care debacle if it wasn't already the peg that was shoved in the health care hole. Everyone is amazed that the GOP can't fix the square peg that was shoved into the round hole by the Dems. And the GOP was stupid enough to promise that they could. If the GOP repeals Obamacare, they won't get a shot at replacing it, and this group shouldn't after how much incompetence they've shown. But maybe repealing is the only way to back the current mess up so that something better can take it's place? And I agree with you that no matter what we're on the fast track for single payer. Although at this pace, it's guaranteed to be worse than anything we have now.
Spurna Posted July 19, 2017 Posted July 19, 2017 Nobody voted for Trump seriously counting on a health plan. But they did vote for him with his promise of lower taxes If that doesn't happen...Congress swings blue next year
DC Tom Posted July 19, 2017 Posted July 19, 2017 But they did vote for him with his promise of lower taxes If that doesn't happen...Congress swings blue next year Because the people who didn't get their expectations of lower taxes met will of course vote for the party of tax increases.
Azalin Posted July 19, 2017 Posted July 19, 2017 (edited) I'm afraid Azalin, that is wishful thinking. Even though I do believe that Democrats should bear the brunt of the failures of the ACA moving forward, there are things that Trump is doing to undermine the law and cause premiums to go even higher such as threatening to take away the cost sharing provisions and uncertainty if there will even be a penalty for not having insurance. Both of these things from a substantive level are causing prices to go up even higher. Plus, most people don't like Trump so everything he touches automatically is soured upon from the American public. He and Republicans said they'd fix it and the American public are expecting him to do just that. Well, I wouldn't call it "wishful thinking", since I don't care who actually fixes this mess, and I don't trust anyone in Washington to do what's right anyway. I believe I've been consistent in maintaining my belief that incremental governmental involvement in healthcare and insurance has caused incremental problems to arise as a result, causing the predicament we're now stuck with. I suppose some people will blame Trump and the republicans if nothing gets done, and I'm certain that they'll receive the blame from whatever results IF they actually manage to pass something. Personally I believe that congressional republicans stand to lose much more than Trump does, but I imagine we'll see soon enough. Edited July 19, 2017 by Azalin
snafu Posted July 19, 2017 Posted July 19, 2017 There is no unicorn of a plan that can be put in place to fix this and hit all 3 of your points. Even the best sounding plans/ideas come with a heaping helping of 'hopefully sustainable' talk. There is not a viable silver bullet for this mess. In my humble opinion it's mostly because everyone is fixated on providing health insurance to all instead of actually addressing the cost of health care. Insurance, on it's face, is not a solution a rational thinking person would suggest for the entire health care debacle if it wasn't already the peg that was shoved in the health care hole. Everyone is amazed that the GOP can't fix the square peg that was shoved into the round hole by the Dems. And the GOP was stupid enough to promise that they could. If the GOP repeals Obamacare, they won't get a shot at replacing it, and this group shouldn't after how much incompetence they've shown. But maybe repealing is the only way to back the current mess up so that something better can take it's place? And I agree with you that no matter what we're on the fast track for single payer. Although at this pace, it's guaranteed to be worse than anything we have now. Everyone except Congress talks about reducing healthcare costs. It is the most rational of all questions. Why is it that they ignore this aspect of healthcare reform? The whole reform idea from both sides of the aisle is pure bull **** without reducing costs.
DC Tom Posted July 19, 2017 Posted July 19, 2017 Everyone except Congress talks about reducing healthcare costs. It is the most rational of all questions. Why is it that they ignore this aspect of healthcare reform? The whole reform idea from both sides of the aisle is pure bull **** without reducing costs. They ignore it because the majority of Americans are too stupid to know the difference between the cost of health care, the delivery of health care, the cost of health insurance, and the availability of health insurance.
snafu Posted July 19, 2017 Posted July 19, 2017 They ignore it because the majority of Americans are too stupid to know the difference between the cost of health care, the delivery of health care, the cost of health insurance, and the availability of health insurance. In the pockets of the lobbyists, taking advantage of constituents who work for a living and don't have time to enlighten themselves.
Benjamin Franklin Posted July 19, 2017 Posted July 19, 2017 (edited) Leader of the free world on health care: "We will let it fail." With leadership skills like that, I'm looking forward to the debt ceiling discussions in a month. Edited July 19, 2017 by Benjamin Franklin
grinreaper Posted July 19, 2017 Posted July 19, 2017 Leader of the free world on health care: "We will let it fail." With leadership skills like that, I'm looking forward to the debt ceiling discussions in a month. As usual, you're an idiot.
Benjamin Franklin Posted July 19, 2017 Posted July 19, 2017 That's infringement. The acceptable noninfringing replacement is Your a moran. Moran.
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted July 19, 2017 Posted July 19, 2017 Leader of the free world on health care: "We will let it fail." I'd say that's the best possible plan atm.
Magox Posted July 19, 2017 Posted July 19, 2017 I'd say that's the best possible plan atm. The irony of this strategy is that all the places where people vote for Democrats the ACA is working ok. All the places where Trump wants to let it fail are the places that voted for him. Sounds like a sound strategy.
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted July 19, 2017 Posted July 19, 2017 The irony of this strategy is that all the places where people vote for Democrats the ACA is working ok. Only, it's really not. Anyone who argues that health insurance is more affordable in those areas is either delusional, or didn't have any coverage beforehand. Again, there's nothing AFFORDABLE about the affordable care act. It needs to die.
GG Posted July 19, 2017 Posted July 19, 2017 In the pockets of the lobbyists, taking advantage of constituents who work for a living and don't have time to enlighten themselves. Are the lobbyists the ones who go on the air every single day conflating the issues?
TH3 Posted July 19, 2017 Posted July 19, 2017 There is no unicorn of a plan that can be put in place to fix this and hit all 3 of your points. Even the best sounding plans/ideas come with a heaping helping of 'hopefully sustainable' talk. There is not a viable silver bullet for this mess. In my humble opinion it's mostly because everyone is fixated on providing health insurance to all instead of actually addressing the cost of health care. Insurance, on it's face, is not a solution a rational thinking person would suggest for the entire health care debacle if it wasn't already the peg that was shoved in the health care hole. Everyone is amazed that the GOP can't fix the square peg that was shoved into the round hole by the Dems. And the GOP was stupid enough to promise that they could. If the GOP repeals Obamacare, they won't get a shot at replacing it, and this group shouldn't after how much incompetence they've shown. But maybe repealing is the only way to back the current mess up so that something better can take it's place? And I agree with you that no matter what we're on the fast track for single payer. Although at this pace, it's guaranteed to be worse than anything we have now. Except that every other OECD country has a health care system that gets HC to its citizens for half the price with better results that what we do...proving it can be done... Start with a clean sheet...lock the lobbyists out....design a system that acknowledges market forces, buyer behavior, actuarial principles on risk pool and aligns the payer/provider/consumer goals.....not that hard....except the first two parts...
Magox Posted July 19, 2017 Posted July 19, 2017 Only, it's really not. Anyone who argues that health insurance is more affordable in those areas is either delusional, or didn't have any coverage beforehand. Again, there's nothing AFFORDABLE about the affordable care act. It needs to die. It's not delusional its factually correct. What is delusional is your opinion that healthcare is not more affordable in Urban America where the population centers are relative to Rural America. The reason why rural america tends to have higher premiums are because their risk pools consist of an older and unhealthier population whereas in cities people tend to be younger. Out of the 47 counties that have no Obamacare plans where the market collapsed in their areas, all but one voted for Trump. There is no death spiral in the vast majority of the population centers in the US, where the health markets that are at highest risk of "failing" as Trump would have you ignorantly believe are where his voters reside. That's not an opinion that is a fact.
Benjamin Franklin Posted July 19, 2017 Posted July 19, 2017 Failure of legislation that governs the single largest portion of our economy is the "best possible plan?" That's not a plan.
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted July 19, 2017 Posted July 19, 2017 Failure of legislation that governs the single largest portion of our economy is the "best possible plan?" That's not a plan. Got a better idea? It's not delusional its factually correct. What is delusional is your opinion that healthcare is not more affordable in Urban America where the population centers are relative to Rural America. The reason why rural america tends to have higher premiums are because their risk pools consist of an older and unhealthier population whereas in cities people tend to be younger. Out of the 47 counties that have no Obamacare plans where the market collapsed in their areas, all but one voted for Trump. There is no death spiral in the vast majority of the population centers in the US, where the health markets that are at highest risk of "failing" as Trump would have you ignorantly believe are where his voters reside. That's not an opinion that is a fact. Magox, I like you, I really do. But i think you're having a reading comprehension problem. In no way, shape or form is health insurance LESS expensive now than it was pre-ACA, regardless of where you are in the USA. That's factual.
Benjamin Franklin Posted July 19, 2017 Posted July 19, 2017 (edited) We have to fix the broken pieces of healthcare painful negotiated step by step. It won't be easy or fun. But let it fail is not governance. It's fiddling while Rome burns. Edited July 19, 2017 by Benjamin Franklin
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted July 19, 2017 Posted July 19, 2017 We have to fix the broken pieces of healthcare painful negotiated step by step. It won't be easy or fun. But let it fail is not governance. It's fiddling while Rome burns. What motivation do the morons in the congress have to act short of its failure?
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