The Affordable Care Act II - Because Mr. Obama Loves You All

[Capco]

 

You keep saying this, and I keep asking you to clarify, but every time I ask, you run away, which (to be honest) is a more desirable response.

 

But I'll ask again: please show us precisely how these other industrialized nations provides health care to all of it's citizens. In what way does it deliver this health care? Do they go door-to-door? Be specific.

 

Then show us the metrics by which you believe they have better results. Prepare to show your work.

 

Read the questions carefully. Answer them purposefully. Prove your point with facts.

 

We can wait.

 

Or disappear again. We can't wait.

 

Health care spending in the U.S. far exceeds that in other countries, despite a global slowdown in spending growth in recent years. At 17.1 percent of GDP, the U.S. devotes at least 50 percent more of its economy to health care than do other countries. Even public spending on health care, on a per capita basis, is higher in the U.S. than in most other countries with universal public coverage.

How can we explain the higher U.S. spending? In line with previous studies,19 the results of this analysis suggest that the excess is likely driven by greater utilization of medical technology and higher prices, rather than use of routine services, such as more frequent visits to physicians and hospitals.

High health care spending has far-reaching consequences in the U.S. economy, contributing to wage stagnation, personal bankruptcy, and budget deficits, and creating a competitive disadvantage relative to other nations.20 One potential consequence of high health spending is that it may crowd out other forms of social spending that support health. In the U.S., health care spending substantially outweighs spending on social services. This imbalance may contribute to the country’s poor health outcomes. A growing body of evidence suggests that social services play an important role in shaping health trajectories and mitigating health disparities.21,22 Additional cross-national research is needed to better understand the relationship between social services and health, as well as other health determinants like lifestyle and environment.

New care models that reward health care providers based on their patient population’s health outcomes (e.g., accountable care organizations) are an interesting development. Such accountability could create a business case for health care providers to invest in certain social services or other nonclinical interventions, if doing so would be a cost-effective way to improve patients’ health.23 Over the long term, such a strategy could potentially alter the current balance between health and social services spending.

 

 

http://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/issue-briefs/2015/oct/us-health-care-from-a-global-perspective

Edited June 28, 2017 by Capco

[unbillievable]

How can we explain the higher U.S. spending? In line with previous studies,19 the results of this analysis suggest that the excess is likely driven by greater utilization of medical technology and higher prices, rather than use of routine services, such as more frequent visits to physicians and hospitals.

http://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/issue-briefs/2015/oct/us-health-care-from-a-global-perspective

 

The conclusion of that article is that healthcare costs a lot because prices are high. Basically saying that water is wet because it's liquid.

 

Not much of an answer.

 

It did mention that Americans have access to more medical technology than any nation on the planet (better) but have low comparable health because we're fat slobs. (freedom!!)

 

Doesn't explain why drugs and healthcare cost more. Maybe include cost of research, malpractice insurance, free-loaders, etc. A detailed analysis would have helped instead of spending 90% of the article trying to prove that the US spends more than every nation; a conclusion everyone agrees with anyway.

[ALF]

Factoid on MSNBC

 

CBO on current Republican Healthcare Bill

 

$772B cut in Medicaid over next 10 years

 

Rural Medicaid recipients:

 

W Virginia 51%

 

Alaska 47%

 

Maine 38%

 

Nevada 37%

[B-Man]

Health care spending in the U.S. far exceeds that in other countries, despite a global slowdown in spending growth in recent years.

http://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/issue-briefs/2015/oct/us-health-care-from-a-global-perspective

 

 

 

That doesn't really address LA's question

 

 

You keep saying this, and I keep asking you to clarify, but every time I ask, you run away, which (to be honest) is a more desirable response.

 

But I'll ask again: please show us precisely how these other industrialized nations provides health care to all of it's citizens. In what way does it deliver this health care?

 

Every other industrialzed nation has a HC structure that provides HC to all its citizens for half the price...with better results....

[Magox]

 

Health care spending in the U.S. far exceeds that in other countries, despite a global slowdown in spending growth in recent years. At 17.1 percent of GDP, the U.S. devotes at least 50 percent more of its economy to health care than do other countries. Even public spending on health care, on a per capita basis, is higher in the U.S. than in most other countries with universal public coverage.

How can we explain the higher U.S. spending? In line with previous studies,19 the results of this analysis suggest that the excess is likely driven by greater utilization of medical technology and higher prices, rather than use of routine services, such as more frequent visits to physicians and hospitals.

High health care spending has far-reaching consequences in the U.S. economy, contributing to wage stagnation, personal bankruptcy, and budget deficits, and creating a competitive disadvantage relative to other nations.20 One potential consequence of high health spending is that it may crowd out other forms of social spending that support health. In the U.S., health care spending substantially outweighs spending on social services. This imbalance may contribute to the country’s poor health outcomes. A growing body of evidence suggests that social services play an important role in shaping health trajectories and mitigating health disparities.21,22 Additional cross-national research is needed to better understand the relationship between social services and health, as well as other health determinants like lifestyle and environment.

New care models that reward health care providers based on their patient population’s health outcomes (e.g., accountable care organizations) are an interesting development. Such accountability could create a business case for health care providers to invest in certain social services or other nonclinical interventions, if doing so would be a cost-effective way to improve patients’ health.23 Over the long term, such a strategy could potentially alter the current balance between health and social services spending.

 

 

http://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/issue-briefs/2015/oct/us-health-care-from-a-global-perspective

 

I'm in agreement with heavily funded pilot programs that would encourage this.

[unbillievable]

Factoid on MSNBC

 

CBO on current Republican Healthcare Bill

 

$772B cut in Medicaid over next 10 years

 

Rural Medicaid recipients:

 

W Virginia 51%

 

Alaska 47%

 

Maine 38%

 

Nevada 37%

 

Is not expanding Medicaid considered a cut?

[Magox]

 

Is not expanding Medicaid considered a cut?

 

 

Dollar amount would be expanded vs current numbers.

 

What is cut is the threshold. Right now it is at 400% above poverty line under GOP senate it is 350% of poverty line.

[IDBillzFan]

 

http://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/issue-briefs/2015/oct/us-health-care-from-a-global-perspective

 

I appreciate the link, but it really doesn't support baskin's case, and in some cases refutes it.

 

He insists everyone else pays less for health care than the US. Apparently Norway and the Netherlands would beg to differ.

 

But even that's not the problem with his repeated claims. He insists over and over and over that every other industrialized nation in the world delivers better health care for less money than the US.

 

In what manner are these countries delivering health care? He doesn't have an answer, nor does the report you posted, because there is no answer. Countries don't deliver health care. They don't even provide it. They only offer it.

 

It's up the individual to take care of themselves. Eat healthy. Exercise. See doctors for pre-emptive care and health issues. Health care providers can make a phone call every week reminding people that smoking and eating processed foods are bad for them, but no one is banging on the door to pull the cigarettes and HoHos from Tonya's 230-pound 14-year-old son who's skipping school to play Xbox.

 

Baskin will never understand that, because baskin believes that only the government can fix things. He'll never understand that it can't fix Tonya's son until Tonya and her son decide they want to be fixed.

 

That's why liberals lose in this country. Because they can't think for themselves. They can only repeat things they're told.

[ALF]

How the healthcare bill plays out will determine 2020 Congress and White House elections to say the least.

[TH3]

That doesn't really address LA's question

[/quote

 

Really....why dont you spread your net a little wider thatn those crap websites you link to all the time...

[IDBillzFan]

That doesn't really address LA's question

[/quote

 

Really....why dont you spread your net a little wider thatn those crap websites you link to all the time...

 

Hey, tell us again how every other industrialized country delivers health care to its people.

 

Make an ice cream truck? You know, fake the fat kids into thinking it's time for a Good Humor Rocket Pop, and then BLAM! Exercise machine! Here's your damn health care, Rufus!

Edited June 28, 2017 by LABillzFan

[Capco]

 

I appreciate the link, but it really doesn't support baskin's case, and in some cases refutes it.

 

He insists everyone else pays less for health care than the US. Apparently Norway and the Netherlands would beg to differ.

 

But even that's not the problem with his repeated claims. He insists over and over and over that every other industrialized nation in the world delivers better health care for less money than the US.

 

In what manner are these countries delivering health care? He doesn't have an answer, nor does the report you posted, because there is no answer. Countries don't deliver health care. They don't even provide it. They only offer it.

 

It's up the individual to take care of themselves. Eat healthy. Exercise. See doctors for pre-emptive care and health issues. Health care providers can make a phone call every week reminding people that smoking and eating processed foods are bad for them, but no one is banging on the door to pull the cigarettes and HoHos from Tonya's 230-pound 14-year-old son who's skipping school to play Xbox.

 

Baskin will never understand that, because baskin believes that only the government can fix things. He'll never understand that it can't fix Tonya's son until Tonya and her son decide they want to be fixed.

 

That's why liberals lose in this country. Because they can't think for themselves. They can only repeat things they're told.

 

I kind of jumped into the discussion so I'm not sure what Baskin is all about. I just thought it would help the discussion in general.

 

The point I really liked in that quoted conclusion was the difference between social spending and healthcare spending between the US and various other countries. The report explained how that spending on social services leads to healthier outcomes for populaces outside of the US by virtue of the fact that these social services essentially equate to preventative care. Likewise, I'm a big fan of the concept of "accountable care organizations" and the like.

 

There are certainly multiple factors as to why healthcare in the US is the way that it is. But there's nothing wrong with taking good ideas from someone else and making them our own.

[TH3]

I appreciate the link, but it really doesn't support baskin's case, and in some cases refutes it.

 

He insists everyone else pays less for health care than the US. Apparently Norway and the Netherlands would beg to differ.

 

But even that's not the problem with his repeated claims. He insists over and over and over that every other industrialized nation in the world delivers better health care for less money than the US.

 

In what manner are these countries delivering health care? He doesn't have an answer, nor does the report you posted, because there is no answer. Countries don't deliver health care. They don't even provide it. They only offer it.

 

It's up the individual to take care of themselves. Eat healthy. Exercise. See doctors for pre-emptive care and health issues. Health care providers can make a phone call every week reminding people that smoking and eating processed foods are bad for them, but no one is banging on the door to pull the cigarettes and HoHos from Tonya's 230-pound 14-year-old son who's skipping school to play Xbox.

 

Baskin will never understand that, because baskin believes that only the government can fix things. He'll never understand that it can't fix Tonya's son until Tonya and her son decide they want to be fixed.

 

That's why liberals lose in this country. Because they can't think for themselves. They can only repeat things they're told.

 

So when confronted with some plain old truths you gotta play tthe wordomatic slant ..."provide/offer" then the old standby ...liberal...

 

If you read what i say it is this "every other country Has a HC structure/system/offering/format that delivers better results at half the costs....surely the GOP can come up with a concept that can come close to what every other country has achieved....what they are proposing does not even come close to this level of cost and return...

I kind of jumped into the discussion so I'm not sure what Baskin is all about. I just thought it would help the discussion in general.

 

The point I really liked in that quoted conclusion was the difference between social spending and healthcare spending between the US and various other countries. The report explained how that spending on social services leads to healthier outcomes for populaces outside of the US by virtue of the fact that these social services essentially equate to preventative care. Likewise, I'm a big fan of the concept of "accountable care organizations" and the like.

 

There are certainly multiple factors as to why healthcare in the US is the way that it is. But there's nothing wrong with taking good ideas from someone else and making them our own.

I will save you some time....these guys arent interested in real debate....and they have WAY more time on their hands than me to play the word circle jerk game

[TakeYouToTasker]

So when confronted with some plain old truths you gotta play tthe wordomatic slant ..."provide/offer" then the old standby ...liberal...

 

If you read what i say it is this "every other country Has a HC structure/system/offering/format that delivers better results at half the costs....surely the GOP can come up with a concept that can come close to what every other country has achieved....what they are proposing does not even come close to this level of cost and return...

 

I will save you some time....these guys arent interested in real debate....and they have WAY more time on their hands than me to play the word circle jerk game

You aren't qualified to offer this response. Your posting history indicates that you really have no understanding of complex systems, and when challenged, you simply tuck tail and run away. IE. You've never stuck around to participate in debate, or have your pre-conceptions challenged. How would you know what other people's ideas are?

 

How would you even begin to evaluate them if you stuck around to listen, and participate?

 

And finally, and again, how are you not too ashamed to show your face here after your embarrassingly vocal display of ignorance the last time we spoke?

Edited June 28, 2017 by TakeYouToTasker

[DC Tom]

 

I kind of jumped into the discussion so I'm not sure what Baskin is all about. I just thought it would help the discussion in general.

 

The point I really liked in that quoted conclusion was the difference between social spending and healthcare spending between the US and various other countries. The report explained how that spending on social services leads to healthier outcomes for populaces outside of the US by virtue of the fact that these social services essentially equate to preventative care. Likewise, I'm a big fan of the concept of "accountable care organizations" and the like.

 

There are certainly multiple factors as to why healthcare in the US is the way that it is. But there's nothing wrong with taking good ideas from someone else and making them our own.

 

The real difference is that the US healthcare system is geared to provide legal and accounting services as much as it is healthcare. I doubt England's PHS employs seven administrators and accountants per doctor like the Veterans Administration does.

You aren't qualified to offer this response. Your posting history indicates that you really have no understanding of complex systems, and when challenged, you simply tuck tail and run away. IE. You've never stuck around to participate in debate, or have your pre-conceptions challenged. How would you know what other people's ideas are?

 

How would you even begin to evaluate them if you stuck around to listen, and participate?

 

And finally, and again, how are you not too ashamed to show your face here after your embarrassingly vocal display of ignorance the last time we spoke?

 

His ignorance has been vocally on display for years. If he's not embarrassed now, he never will be.

[ALF]

 

The real difference is that the US healthcare system is geared to provide legal and accounting services as much as it is healthcare. I doubt England's PHS employs seven administrators and accountants per doctor like the Veterans Administration does.

 

Should the U.S. copy England's system ?

Edited June 28, 2017 by ALF

[IDBillzFan]

If you read what i say it is this "every other country Has a HC structure/system/offering/format that delivers better results at half the costs....surely the GOP can come up with a concept that can come close to what every other country has achieved....what they are proposing does not even come close to this level of cost and return...

 

Oh, please. I've asked you twice to support your incoherent mind-numblingly ridiculous claims about how everyone delivers health care, and you disappear only to show up and take an moronic shot at B-man.

 

Stick to your Tiberius log in. It makes it easier to filter all the stupidity into one sinkhole.

[DC Tom]

 

Should the U.S. copy England's system ?

 

Why are you asking me? Ask one of the dumbasses who thinks "We should be more like Europe!" is a coherent policy.

[Tiberius]

The real difference is that the US healthcare system is geared to provide legal and accounting services as much as it is healthcare.

e.

Yes! That's because of our reliance on private insurance companies. The costs of fighting over who gets what money means that you need lawyers and administrators to fight that war. Medicaid delivers cheaper care than the private insurance

[Nanker]

Should the U.S. copy England's system ?

Absolutely not. What kind of a Progressive are you? Don't you know that Bob in Michigan knows with absolute certainty that marijuana is the Miracle cure for well, just about everything. Your efforts must focus on getting it legalized and then no one will ever think that they need healthcare insurance. In fact they might never think again. FORWARD!!!