GG Posted May 5, 2017 Posted May 5, 2017 Come on man. Congress doesn't even pencil this stuff out before they vote on it. So what if its 10% or 15%? You won't be paying insurance premiums. No way your tax would be more than what you and your company are paying now. Companies won't have to provide health insurance anymore. ZERO government regulations on that anymore. It would make it easier and cheaper for companies to hire people. I thought that part of it would have been a desirable outcome on PPP. I'll decide when it's proper for me to get quiet thank you very much. Sounded more like false equivilancy. Do the math, employer sponsored health insurance runs up to $2k/mo for family coverage.
TakeYouToTasker Posted May 5, 2017 Posted May 5, 2017 What about those born w diseases that go undiagnosed until late adolescence? In my case, I was born w a disease that was not properly diagnosed until I was 20 though I was symptomatic since I was a baby. At that time I had insurance through my parents - then had my own insurance through my employer. From the time I graduated college and went on my own insurance until the ACA passed, my insurer went out of their way to create cause to drop me from their rolls. I fought them in court, spent literally tens thousands of dollars in legal fees to prove they were intentionally billing me late (or not at all) to force me off. I could afford that because I was making good money, but plenty of others in my position would have been forced off coverage, which would have denied them the medicine needed to keep the disease under control and would ultimately cost the tax payer far more down the road. I understand the point you're making, but it's overlooking a lot of people who either are not diagnosed until later (despite the disease being present since birth) as well as the lengths insurance companies will go to in order to NOT provide coverage to those who are the most at risk. As GG says, that's not a pre-existing condition, as the condition, as far as insurance goes, begins with diagnosis. However, with that said, what your talking about is a portability issue.
Azalin Posted May 5, 2017 Posted May 5, 2017 (edited) I'm not advocating for this, I've criticized that this idea would be a logistical nightmare and yes it would lead to rationing. Having said that, I think this would lead to two types of care, the Medicare-for-all coverage that would be for the majority of the population and then there would be boutique style coverage for the upper middle and higher economic class. It's apparent to me that most people care about the total number of people that are covered as opposed to the quality of coverage. I understand that you're not advocating - I didn't mean to imply that you were. So much of the justification by advocates for getting the feds involved in healthcare and coverage seems to be based in fairness, or that it's a right that everyone deserves. A lot of people appear to feel this way, and although I believe that their good intentions are genuine, there will be ramifications that many do not foresee. As long as we remain free to provide for ourselves as we choose, there will be private (boutique) medical services available to those who can afford it. I believe there's going to be a significant number of people who will find that to be unacceptable. It will be a case of "rich billionaires and Washington fat cats" having proper, quality care while rank & file Americans line up for their government-issued services. We all know how envy plays such a large role in ginning up support from voters, so I don't believe we can end up with any kind of lasting public/private model. Edited May 5, 2017 by Azalin
GG Posted May 5, 2017 Posted May 5, 2017 As GG says, that's not a pre-existing condition, as the condition, as far as insurance goes, begins with diagnosis. However, with that said, what your talking about is a portability issue. I have to give a lot of credit to Obama's & Schiff's disinformation campaign to a gullible audience that now believes that the most important issues in healthcare are universal coverage and pre-existing conditions, which can all happen and can be paid for with minimal changes to tax structure or type and quality of care. Good job. I blame the GOP for not seizing on a golden opportunity to recast the debate and keep hammering away that you can't have universal coverage and keep the doctor that you like. That should have accompanied every statement about Obamacare repeal. Most people don't understand what happens to complex insurance regulations, they don't understand when insurers exit the marketplaces. They do understand when their family doctor tells them they won't accept them starting next year. They will understand when they'll have to go to a clinic instead of a doctor's office.
Tiberius Posted May 5, 2017 Posted May 5, 2017 Boy, Democrats didn't waste much time going after Trumpcare, here is a tv commercial from Virginia http://adage.com/article/campaign-trail/watch-a-virginia-democrat-crush-ambulance/308930/
ALF Posted May 5, 2017 Posted May 5, 2017 Yea , Trump finally gets it right Trump praises Australia's universal health care after Obamacare repeal US Senator Bernie Sanders quickly picked up on the remark which came after Trump's new bill passed by a handful of votes. The new law still has to pass the US Senate. "Well Mr President, you're right, in Australia and every other major country on Earth they guarantee health care to all people. They don't throw 24 million people off health insurance. So maybe when we get to the Senate we should start off with looking at the Australian health care system," Sanders told CNN's Anderson Cooper. http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/04/politics/trump-us-australia-health-care/
Tiberius Posted May 5, 2017 Posted May 5, 2017 Yea , Trump finally gets it right Trump praises Australia's universal health care after Obamacare repeal US Senator Bernie Sanders quickly picked up on the remark which came after Trump's new bill passed by a handful of votes. The new law still has to pass the US Senate. "Well Mr President, you're right, in Australia and every other major country on Earth they guarantee health care to all people. They don't throw 24 million people off health insurance. So maybe when we get to the Senate we should start off with looking at the Australian health care system," Sanders told CNN's Anderson Cooper. http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/04/politics/trump-us-australia-health-care/ Wow, just wow. He just could care less what is in that bill they just passed
richstadiumowner Posted May 5, 2017 Posted May 5, 2017 Yea , Trump finally gets it right Trump praises Australia's universal health care after Obamacare repeal US Senator Bernie Sanders quickly picked up on the remark which came after Trump's new bill passed by a handful of votes. The new law still has to pass the US Senate. "Well Mr President, you're right, in Australia and every other major country on Earth they guarantee health care to all people. They don't throw 24 million people off health insurance. So maybe when we get to the Senate we should start off with looking at the Australian health care system," Sanders told CNN's Anderson Cooper. http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/04/politics/trump-us-australia-health-care/ Thank God you deep sixed Obamacare. About half the Canadian people I know with medical conditions fly to the US and get care rather than die in line, wait for years for knee/hip surgery, or take watered down cancer treatments. Socialized medicine is bad.
ALF Posted May 5, 2017 Posted May 5, 2017 Thank God you deep sixed Obamacare. About half the Canadian people I know with medical conditions fly to the US and get care rather than die in line, wait for years for knee/hip surgery, or take watered down cancer treatments. Socialized medicine is bad. Don't you think the USA can do better then that ?
TakeYouToTasker Posted May 5, 2017 Posted May 5, 2017 (edited) Don't you think the USA can do better then that ? So the problem with Socialism is that we haven't tried it yet? No, we won't do better because of the fundamental laws of supply and demand. Try as you may, you cannot repeal them. As has been written here before, the three desirable prongs of health care are: abundance, universal affordability, and high quality. You can control for any two of those outcomes, but not all three. Edited May 5, 2017 by TakeYouToTasker
ALF Posted May 5, 2017 Posted May 5, 2017 Medicare for all would work jmo and I respect your opinion .
Dorkington Posted May 5, 2017 Posted May 5, 2017 Thank God you deep sixed Obamacare. About half the Canadian people I know with medical conditions fly to the US and get care rather than die in line, wait for years for knee/hip surgery, or take watered down cancer treatments. Socialized medicine is bad. In terms of developed countries, where would you rank the US's healthcare system compared to it's peers, and based on what factors?
Chef Jim Posted May 5, 2017 Posted May 5, 2017 They have introduced legislation here in CA to go single payer. I was listening to some "expert" on the radio saying they are planning on doing a payroll deduction that will likely be less than what we're now paying for insurance so it would be a net win for us. Ok smart guy. What about the people that have passive income? What about the guy that lives off the income from several rentals he has? They do not have "earned" income and no payroll deductions. So they are not paying into the system. Do they EVER think this stuff through....rhetorical question.
ALF Posted May 5, 2017 Posted May 5, 2017 Just look at countries with the best health system and go from there.
TakeYouToTasker Posted May 5, 2017 Posted May 5, 2017 (edited) Medicare for all would work jmo and I respect your opinion . You're entitled to your opinion, but it isn't based on evidence. And this would be fine if it was just an opinion floating around out in the ether, but since you're trying to legislate it, it's a major problem. Edited May 5, 2017 by TakeYouToTasker
Chef Jim Posted May 5, 2017 Posted May 5, 2017 Just look at countries with the best health system and go from there. What are those countries, what makes their health system the best, how do they pay for it, and what is their tax burden. Let's just start with those questions.
Meathead Posted May 5, 2017 Posted May 5, 2017 Wow, just wow. He just could care less what is in that bill they just passed well in reality what they passed didnt really matter. they could have passed a chinese food menu bc it would have to be reworked in the senate all they really did was completely pass the buck so they could get some happy camera time
ALF Posted May 5, 2017 Posted May 5, 2017 What are those countries, what makes their health system the best, how do they pay for it, and what is their tax burden. Let's just start with those questions. It will take someone smarter then me to answer that, I defer to DC Tom
Chef Jim Posted May 5, 2017 Posted May 5, 2017 It will take someone smarter then me to answer that, I defer to DC Tom Well you started that post with the word JUST so I assumed it was easy and you'd had it all figured out.
Doc Brown Posted May 5, 2017 Posted May 5, 2017 Is Trump just trolling America by calling Australia's Universal Health Care system even better than ours or is he really that ignorant?
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