The Affordable Care Act II - Because Mr. Obama Loves You All

[Azalin]

Even though Obamacare in itself has been a failure, Obama had won the argument. The General public cares more about overall coverage than anything else.

 

No matter what the Repubs do, we will eventually become a Medicare-for-all single payer sort of health system within a decade. It's not a matter of if but when.

 

If indeed that comes to pass, how long do you think it will be before those on the public system will resent the superior care received by those who can afford to pay their own bills? Will they begin to demand such care for themselves? Do you think that there will be a call to do away with private care in the name of fairness, or a call to do away with government provided health care services?

 

I ask that only half-facetiously, because I honestly do not think that the average American understands the can of worms they'll be opening with a centralized, socialized single-payer system. My wife's family lives in Madrid, and their access and treatment is appalling. That's exactly the same thing that we're going to end up with.

[B-Man]

List of ObamaCare Taxes Repealed
Americans for Tax Reform ^ | 5/4/17

The American Health Care Act (HR 1628) passed by the House today reduces taxes on the American people by over $1 trillion. The bill abolishes the following taxes imposed by Obama and the Democrat party in 2010 as part of Obamacare:

-Abolishes the Obamacare Individual Mandate Tax which hits 8 million Americans each year.

-Abolishes the Obamacare Employer Mandate Tax. Together with repeal of the Individual Mandate Tax repeal this is a $270 billion tax cut.

-Abolishes Obamacare’s Medicine Cabinet Tax which hits 20 million Americans with Health Savings Accounts and 30 million Americans with Flexible Spending Accounts. This is a $6 billion tax cut.

-Abolishes Obamacare’s Flexible Spending Account tax on 30 million Americans. This is a $20 billion tax cut.

-Abolishes Obamacare’s Chronic Care Tax on 10 million Americans with high out of pocket medical expenses. This is a $126 billion tax cut.

-Abolishes Obamacare’s HSA withdrawal tax. This is a $100 million tax cut.

-Abolishes Obamacare’s 10% excise tax on small businesses with indoor tanning services. This is a $600 million tax cut.

-Abolishes the Obamacare health insurance tax. This is a $145 billion tax cut.

-Abolishes the Obamacare 3.8% surtax on investment income. This is a $172 billion tax cut.

-Abolishes the Obamacare medical device tax. This is a $20 billion tax cut.

-Abolishes the Obamacare tax on prescription medicine. This is a $28 billion tax cut.

-Abolishes the Obamacare tax on retiree prescription drug coverage. This is a $2 billion tax cut.

As a presidential candidate in 2008, Barack Obama had promised repeatedly that he would not raise any tax on any American earning less than $250,000 per year.

He broke the promise when he signed Obamacare.

With the passage of the House GOP bill, tens of millions of middle income Americans will get tax relief from Obamacare's long list of tax hikes.

Edited May 5, 2017 by B-Man

[meazza]

 

If indeed that comes to pass, how long do you think it will be before those on the public system will resent the superior care received by those who can afford to pay their own bills? Will they begin to demand such care for themselves? Do you think that there will be a call to do away with private care in the name of fairness, or a call to do away with government provided health care services?

 

I ask that only half-facetiously, because I honestly do not think that the average American understands the can of worms they'll be opening with a centralized, socialized single-payer system. My wife's family lives in Madrid, and their access and treatment is appalling. That's exactly the same thing that we're going to end up with.

Funny that more and more "middle class" Canadians are opting for private care because wait times are too long, myself included.

 

Amazing how much I pay in taxes just to opt for private and pay more. Ain't life grand?

[Chef Jim]

Funny that more and more "middle class" Canadians are opting for private care because wait times are too long, myself included.

 

Amazing how much I pay in taxes just to opt for private and pay more. Ain't life grand?

Oh STFU. What do you know.

[Nanker]

Trump could sign an executive order that states that all Americans have healthcare overage. That should satisfy the minions. No one would be able to say that they don't have healthcare overage -- because they would indeed have it -- by Presidential fiat no less. And as they say in the hood, "that and a dollar can get you a cup of coffee at a diner."

[Benjamin Franklin]

Teeing a thing down isn't so hard.

[reddogblitz]

Sound simple. What's your plan?

 

You didn't ask me,but I have a plan.

 

The feds will buy every person in America a basic health care plan. Covers emergency room, doctors visits, medications etc. To pay for it we will raise everyone's taxes by 2% or whatever.

 

Then, EVERYONE is covered and EVERYONE buys in, even the young healthy 10 foot tall bullet proof types.

 

The benefits would be:

1 It would the largest pool.

2 No more need for high risk pools etc.

3 No more regulations on companies to supply coverage to employees.

4 no more forcing people to buy a product. (You don't have the option if the government buys a new aircraft carrier, you just get it as you would insurance in my plan).

5. Everyone is covered.

6. A requirement would be we could negotiate on drug prices like other countries do.

7. A lot easier/cheaper to manage.

8. Economies of scale.

9. Insurance not tied to employment.

 

If you want more extensive coverage, you can buy it.

Edited May 5, 2017 by reddogblitz

[Meathead]

Even though Obamacare in itself has been a failure, Obama had won the argument. The General public cares more about overall coverage than anything else.

 

No matter what the Repubs do, we will eventually become a Medicare-for-all single payer sort of health system within a decade. It's not a matter of if but when.

yes. and as you have so effectively pointed out, it will be expensive

 

i was wondering, we say 'medicare for all' but what does that mean for medicaid? does medicaid go away? or could we make medicaid the default lowest rung (ie. poorest ppl), with standard medicare as the next rung (social security and default employed), and then have insurance companies sell policies above that for better coverage?

[Taro T]

You didn't ask me,but I have a plan.

The feds will buy every person in America a basic health care plan. Covers emergency room, doctors visits, medications etc. To pay for it we will raise everyone's taxes by 2% or whatever.

Then, EVERYONE is covered and EVERYONE buys in, even the young healthy 10 foot tall bullet proof types.

The benefits would be:

1 It would the largest pool.

2 No more need for high risk pools etc.

3 No more regulations on companies to supply coverage to employees.

4 no more forcing people to buy a product. (You don't have the option if the government buys a new aircraft carrier, you just get it as you would insurance in my plan).

5. Everyone is covered.

6. A requirement would be we could negotiate on drug prices like other countries do.

7. A lot easier/cheaper to manage.

8. Economies of scale.

9. Insurance not tied to employment.

If you want more extensive coverage, you can buy it.

 

To pay for health care, which takes up ~17% of the economy, you're going to raise taxes ~2%? Something seems to be missing here.

[Meathead]

medicaid sucks but its better than nothing. the only ppl that would be on medicaid would be the poorest that have no other option. being on it would mean longer wait times and lower quality drs. that would be incentive enough to get the hell off it if you can, but leave enough basic coverage that those ppl dont become liabilities to everyone later

 

then medicare is for ppl that have paid in during their working years, or are currently working at a level above poverty but dont have better options through their employment. so they get better care but still not the best care

 

then insurance companies would provide increasingly better policies for increasingly better coverage. this provides another level of incentive to succeed above the minimums, and allows the higher achievers to have the best coverage and care

 

why wouldnt that work?

[Benjamin Franklin]

Medicare for all is what the health care providers already know is coming. It already defines nearly everything in our entire health care system, such is its huge influence.

[reddogblitz]

To pay for health care, which takes up ~17% of the economy, you're going to raise taxes ~2%? Something seems to be missing here.

I haven't penciled it out.

 

But it should cost less than what we got. The economies of scale and having everyone in would bring down the cost. And negotiating for drug prices would save a ton.

 

We're paying for everyone as it is. Medicaid, subsidies, Medicare, poor people going to emergency room. We're just paying a much higher price than we should be.

[GG]

I haven't penciled it out.

 

But it should cost less than what we got. The economies of scale and having everyone in would bring down the cost. And negotiating for drug prices would save a ton.

 

We're paying for everyone as it is. Medicaid, subsidies, Medicare, poor people going to emergency room. We're just paying a much higher price than we should be.

You're paying a high price because you get high quality care on demand. Your plan will work to expand coverage, but don't for a second think that you will get the same care.

[DC Tom]

medicaid sucks but its better than nothing.

 

Not much.

 

Again...while Medicaid guarantees people coverage, those same people have a hard time getting care. You can't just walk in to a doctor's office with Medicaid and get treatment. My sister-in-law needs to see a pulmonary specialist, you know how many in the entire DC region accept Medicaid? One - she gave up on getting an appointment after two years of waiting. My niece broke her hand...you know how many orthopedists would set it under Medicaid? Two...but she saw one at the ER, so he was forbidden from treating her, and the other was his partner, and also forbidden from treating her (Medicaid rules against self-referral.) That took going outside the Medicaid system, which took 9 weeks and turned into a $9000 surgery, paid out-of-pocket to the orthopedic surgeon.

 

In far too many cases, Medicaid is precisely nothing. That fact that people of your retardation refuse to recognize that, because you refuse to acknowledge that "coverage" and "care" are not the same thing, is why your "single payer" fiction is such a load of garbage. "Single payer" will not work unless you address access to care...which, if you're going make government the means of regulating demand via "single payer" coverage, requires you to also make government the means of regulating supply via access to care.

 

So stop living in this fantasy land of "Medicaid for everyone, single payer for all" bull ****, and call it what it is: socialized medicine, under complete government control.

[Benjamin Franklin]

I haven't penciled it out.

 

 

That's ok. Budget analysis is passé.

[DC Tom]

I haven't penciled it out.

 

But it should cost less than what we got. The economies of scale and having everyone in would bring down the cost. And negotiating for drug prices would save a ton.

 

We're paying for everyone as it is. Medicaid, subsidies, Medicare, poor people going to emergency room. We're just paying a much higher price than we should be.

 

The economies don't scale very well, because of federalism. It's no small reason why Medicaid is such a cocked-up mess as it is.

[reddogblitz]

You're paying a high price because you get high quality care on demand. Your plan will work to expand coverage, but don't for a second think that you will get the same care.

I don't know about that.

 

If there were more people with insurance that could pay for care, don't for a second think that there won't be new doctors and clinics to meet the demand. Simple case of supply and demand.

[GG]

I don't know about that.

 

If there were more people with insurance that could pay for care, don't for a second think that there won't be new doctors and clinics to meet the demand. Simple case of supply and demand.

Baloney.

 

Please educate yourself on the difference between insurance and care.

[IDBillzFan]

To pay for it we will raise everyone's taxes by 2% or whatever.

Which one?

 

2%? Or whatever?

 

Because I'm doing my budget for the next year, and if this needs to go into the whatever column, then I'll need to shift funds from my who knows account and transfer it to my anybody's guess account.

 

But otherwise...helluva plan you've got there.

 

Helluva plan.

[Doc Brown]

 

Not much.

 

Again...while Medicaid guarantees people coverage, those same people have a hard time getting care. You can't just walk in to a doctor's office with Medicaid and get treatment. My sister-in-law needs to see a pulmonary specialist, you know how many in the entire DC region accept Medicaid? One - she gave up on getting an appointment after two years of waiting. My niece broke her hand...you know how many orthopedists would set it under Medicaid? Two...but she saw one at the ER, so he was forbidden from treating her, and the other was his partner, and also forbidden from treating her (Medicaid rules against self-referral.) That took going outside the Medicaid system, which took 9 weeks and turned into a $9000 surgery, paid out-of-pocket to the orthopedic surgeon.

 

In far too many cases, Medicaid is precisely nothing. That fact that people of your retardation refuse to recognize that, because you refuse to acknowledge that "coverage" and "care" are not the same thing, is why your "single payer" fiction is such a load of garbage. "Single payer" will not work unless you address access to care...which, if you're going make government the means of regulating demand via "single payer" coverage, requires you to also make government the means of regulating supply via access to care.

 

So stop living in this fantasy land of "Medicaid for everyone, single payer for all" bull ****, and call it what it is: socialized medicine, under complete government control.

I have a younger brother diagnosed with mitochondrial disease that effects where he had to quit work because of constant nausea and vomiting (food and stomach acid). and he sees about four specialists. Had no problem getting in with medicaid with any of the specialists so that may be a regional thing.