TakeYouToTasker Posted March 29, 2017 Share Posted March 29, 2017 (edited) Given the defections from the Freedom gang this week, the trend would actually be in the opposite direction because the constituents will feel their representatives are not willing to govern .We shall see, though you forget that this caucus was built on the back of "Dr. No", Ron Paul. The caucus will lose members who were not truely representitive of the people who elected them, and simply posed to be for political expediency, and they'll be replaced. Again, this is a rapidly growing voting block who has taken over 20% of the governing party in 12 short years. America is dissatisfied with big government. You clearly don't understand libertarians, or their motivations. Yes, you are very principled we get it. But who isn't being marginalized? What tired rhetoric not moving off of principles is. We have a few hundred million Americans. Everyone is marginalized, it's called living in a community. Yes, yes, yes the equally tired rhetoric of being elected to represent a base's ideologies will follow. Last I checked, those people are elected to serve that groups best interest. Digging in and refusing to give an inch doesn't accomplish that in the real world. You get cut out. Getting some of what you want is more than getting none. It's called a divisional strategy. The libertarian base is the most entitled base of all. Says the man who begs their vote with the intention of disregarding them. Again, Hillary, reflect on why you lost your major political battle, and resign yourself to it unless you can bring libertarians to the table with libertarian ideas. We've never been represented by our government, and we're willing to suffer under Democratic rule if you can't give us what we want. In fact, when you don't, often times we give them that rule at the ballot box in protest of your lack of principle. Edited March 29, 2017 by TakeYouToTasker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 We shall see, though you forget that this caucus was built on the back of "Dr. No", Ron Paul. The caucus will lose members who were not truely representitive of the people who elected them, and simply posed to be for political expediency, and they'll be replaced. Again, this is a rapidly growing voting block who has taken over 20% of the governing party in 12 short years. America is dissatisfied with big government. You clearly don't understand libertarians, or their motivations. I understand the libertarian motivations very well. They're much more interested in iconclastic grandstanding than they are in governing. Ever wonder why libertarians can't even get 3% of the vote in national elections? Governing isn't the same as putting up a manifesto and pretending your job is done. There's a reason Paul has a cult following that hasn't expanded too far beyond the roots, and why he's peddling doomsday financial schemes in retirement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 I understand the libertarian motivations very well. They're much more interested in iconclastic grandstanding than they are in governing. Ever wonder why libertarians can't even get 3% of the vote in national elections? Governing isn't the same as putting up a manifesto and pretending your job is done. There's a reason Paul has a cult following that hasn't expanded too far beyond the roots, and why he's peddling doomsday financial schemes in retirement. More evidence you don't understand libertarians. You don't even understand the difference between big (L) Libertarians, and actual libertarianism. Further, you've shown your poor hand with your ignorant mistaking of principled opposition for grandstanding. You need us. We don't need you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 Second time’s the charm: House GOP may rework and vote on failed health-care bill after all If nothing else, this story at least produced a stellar quote from GOPer Greg Walden: “We’re approaching the Easter season. Some things rise from the dead.” Given the quality of the product the first go-round, though, the resurrection here is likely to be less “Easter” and more “Pet Sematary.” But don’t get too excited either way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 (edited) The heat is on! President Donald Trump on Thursday morning revived his feud with the House Freedom Caucus members who helped sink his attempt to repeal and replace Obamacare, threatening to “fight them” in the 2018 elections. “The Freedom Caucus will hurt the entire Republican agenda if they don't get on the team, & fast. We must fight them, & Dems, in 2018!” Trump tweeted. Some are already in retrospect seeing what they had done was as in one of their own words "overplayed their hands". The Freedom Caucus is in soul searching mode. After scuttling the Republican plan to repeal and replace Obamacare, the group of hard-liners has been attacked on Twitter by President Donald Trump and trashed privately by much of the House Republican Conference. One member quit in frustration over the caucus’ hardball negotiating tactics, and a second may follow him out the door. The heat has left some of the remaining members of the group questioning whether the Freedom Caucus did the right thing in delivering an embarrassing rebuke to their new Republican president. Some hope that Speaker Paul Ryan’s move this week to re-open negotiations on health care will give them another chance to get to “yes” — and save them from being faulted for the collapse of the GOP’s campaign to end Obamacare. “Here will be the test: My hope is the president will be inclined to allow the negotiations to go forward and we will be allowed to get a better bill than we did before,” said group member Trent Franks (R-Ariz.) in a brief interview Tuesday. “If we do, the Freedom Caucus will have a great equity in that conclusion. If we don’t, if we see the thing fail completely — nothing but shards around us — then we probably saw the Freedom Caucus overplay their hand… and I say that as a grateful member of the Freedom Caucus.” It’s unclear how prevalent buyer's remorse is within the group, which has roughly three dozen members. Several Freedom Caucus members said in interviews that they would have done some things differently in hindsight. Some felt that the group should have taken the White House’s offer to repeal so-called "essential health benefits" mandated by Obamacare, a concession they won the day before the scheduled vote. Edited March 30, 2017 by Magox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 (edited) Anyone surprised by a big government liberal taking umbrage with libertarians is an idiot, and anyone who thinks libertarians will begin to dwindle in numbers for opposing a big government liberal is an even bigger idiot. Edited March 30, 2017 by TakeYouToTasker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meathead Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 yeah, we'll see if the tea party backs down this time. they havent seen theyve been around, and it looks like thats for a reason - see the gerrymandering thread their districts are so hotwired that their only fear is from someone even MORE ideologically pure. their constituents will punish them if they DONT stand firm against all but the most rigid far right stances so if don does encourage someone to primary them he quite possibly could end up with someone worse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 (edited) yeah, we'll see if the tea party backs down this time. they havent seen theyve been around, and it looks like thats for a reason - see the gerrymandering thread their districts are so hotwired that their only fear is from someone even MORE ideologically pure. their constituents will punish them if they DONT stand firm against all but the most rigid far right stances so if don does encourage someone to primary them he quite possibly could end up with someone worse Your gerrymandering thread is nonsense. Again, the purpose of congressional districts is to give politically homogenous groups congressional representation which reflects their values. The purpose of the House of Representatives is not for people to work towards the center to achieve the goals of big government. Congress is not intended to represent you. Your own congressional representative represents you. That's it. That's why it's called "the House of Representatives". Edited March 31, 2017 by TakeYouToTasker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 “What I worry about, Norah, is that if we don't do this, then he'll just go work with Democrats to try and change Obamacare and that's hardly a conservative thing,” Ryan told CBS anchor Norah O’Donnell. “This is a can-do president, he's a business guy who wants to get things done and I know that he wants to get things done with the Republican Congress, but if this Republican Congress allows the perfect to be the enemy of the good, I worry we'll push the president into working with Democrats.” While Trump has expressed a willingness to work with Democrats, Ryan said a bipartisan route around the arch-conservative Freedom Caucus, the group largely responsible for sinking the repeal-and-replace legislation, is not on the table. “Nancy and I see things very, very differently,” the speaker said of House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.). “I don’t want the government running healthcare.” So, is Ryan trying to bluff the Caucus into being more reasonable or is he being serious? Sounds like to me a good cop bad cop routine between him and Trump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 Ryan Says ‘About 90 Percent’ of House GOPs Now Agree on Healthcare Bill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 So, is Ryan trying to bluff the Caucus into being more reasonable or is he being serious? Sounds like to me a good cop bad cop routine between him and Trump. Trump's wearing the black hat. Ryan the white. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 Ryan Says ‘About 90 Percent’ of House GOPs Now Agree on Healthcare Bill. If that is the case, then that would mean they have picked up about 10 - 15 people over the past week. I'm guessing a few of the Freedom Caucus guys are coming to their senses, some of them are a complete lost cause. If Trump doesn't go the bipartisan route (which is my preferred way but not Ryan's), then I believe they should go the Krauthammer approach which is to load up the bill with everything they want, knowing that much of it will be stripped once it gets to the Senate parliamentarian so that they could actually vote on a bill that most of them would be more agreeable with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grinreaper Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meathead Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 If that is the case, then that would mean they have picked up about 10 - 15 people over the past week. I'm guessing a few of the Freedom Caucus guys are coming to their senses, some of them are a complete lost cause. If Trump doesn't go the bipartisan route (which is my preferred way but not Ryan's), then I believe they should go the Krauthammer approach which is to load up the bill with everything they want, knowing that much of it will be stripped once it gets to the Senate parliamentarian so that they could actually vote on a bill that most of them would be more agreeable with. again, i dont see the tea party type contingent 'coming to their senses' and toeing the party line bc thats not what theyre there for. they might get a few but i bet the bulk of they stay 'pure', which is their term. neither will the moderate republicans suddenly decide to let don throw 25m ppl off insurance bc those congressppl will get primaried by their constituents for many reasons the best thing to do would be to fix the ACA. but i have no delusions thats what they will actually do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 (edited) Last Major Insurer Reportedly Plans to Abandon Most Obamacare Markets Next Year One of the consistent and factually-correct refrains from Republican critics of Obamacare -- the president especially -- is that the current law is failing and getting worse. Democrats inadvertently confirm this reality when they accuse Republicans of "sabotaging" the law by allowing it to be followed as-written. Unstable risk pools disrupted by adverse selection are driving costs up, healthier consumers away, and carriers out of the market. The result is a toxic trend of costlier coverage with fewer options, purchased disproportionately by sicker consumers -- which only deepens the unhealthy fiscal trajectory Following the demise of the American Health Care Act, which some providers supported as a means of stopping Obamacare's bleeding, the laws of economics are wreaking further havoc on the law. This is an absolutely devastating development for the solvency of Obamacare: Anthem Inc is likely to exit from a large portion of its Obamacare individual insurance markets next year, Jefferies analysts said, nearly a week after Republican leaders pulled legislation to overhaul the U.S. healthcare system. Anthem is one of the few health insurers that still sells plans under Obamacare. Humana Inc, Aetna Inc, and UnitedHealth Group Inc pulled out after reporting hundreds of millions of dollars of losses. Anthem is leaning toward exiting a "high percentage" of the 144 rating regions in which it currently participates, Jefferies analysts said in a note on Thursday after talking to the health insurer. Obamacare, former Democratic President Barack Obama's signature legislation created by the Affordable Care Act of 2010, has had a tough beginning. The mix of sick and healthy customers has been worse than expected, and premium rates on the individual insurance market went up 25 percent this year. The Republicans' failure to repeal Obamacare, at least for now, means it remains federal law. Thanks to Obamacare's slow-motion implosion, just one single provider remains as a "choice" for consumers who live in roughly one-third of all US counties. In many of those places, Anthem has been that last holdout insurer, which is now reportedly about to end in 2018. Millions of Americans could be left with zero marketplace options, as the planned withdrawal of the last remaining US healthcare giant from most areas marks the latest sign that Obamacare is an unworkable actuarial nightmare. https://townhall.com/tipsheet/guybenson/2017/03/31/fox-news-poll-n2306668 Edited March 31, 2017 by B-Man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted April 1, 2017 Share Posted April 1, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TH3 Posted April 1, 2017 Share Posted April 1, 2017 More evidence you don't understand libertarians. You don't even understand the difference between big (L) Libertarians, and actual libertarianism. Further, you've shown your poor hand with your ignorant mistaking of principled opposition for grandstanding. You need us. We don't need you. Sounds great....the only problem with lLibertarianism?......it does not work at any level.....keep up the good work though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted April 1, 2017 Share Posted April 1, 2017 Sounds great....the only problem with lLibertarianism?......it does not work at any level.....keep up the good work though! Oh, look. Baskin showed up to post something irretrievably stupid and objectively incorrect. Who ever would have guessed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted April 3, 2017 Share Posted April 3, 2017 THAT MEANS IT’S WORKING: Obamacare Choices Could Go From One to Zero in Some Areas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Large Posted April 3, 2017 Share Posted April 3, 2017 Oh, look. Baskin showed up to post something irretrievably stupid and objectively incorrect. Who ever would have guessed. Hard to know if it works until you actually try it.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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