GG Posted March 24, 2017 Posted March 24, 2017 https://twitter.com/DavidCornDC/status/845361857774931968 Imagine that, a fascist President reaching out across the aisle.
Tiberius Posted March 24, 2017 Posted March 24, 2017 Imagine that, a fascist President reaching out across the aisle. Hitler worked with Stalin
TH3 Posted March 24, 2017 Posted March 24, 2017 (edited) It doesn't matter that I did not know the intricacies of the Byrd Rule, and the limits of what can be achieved through reconciliation. Every single one of us is ignorant of, or has a misunderstanding of, far more than we have expertise in. The fact that I am now educated about the extent of the Byrd Rule has no bearing, however, on my position. The fact that a full Freedom Caucus replacement of the ACA could not be implemented that way does not mean that the Freedom Caucus should abandon it's principles, and adopt or accept a big government position. It's not for the Freedom Caucus to conform to your views on what is pragmatic, scraping the desires of their constituencies, and their own beliefs. They were elected by the people the represent to do a job, and by not acquiescing to big government Republicans they have done so. If big government Republicans decide to run to the left now, they'll have to defend their actions to their own constituencies, given that they have been campaigning on a repeal for the last 8 years; while It doesn't matter that I did not know the intricacies of the Byrd Rule, and the limits of what can be achieved through reconciliation. Every single one of us is ignorant of, or has a misunderstanding of, far more than we have expertise in. The fact that I am now educated about the extent of the Byrd Rule has no bearing, however, on my position. The fact that a full Freedom Caucus replacement of the ACA could not be implemented that way does not mean that the Freedom Caucus should abandon it's principles, and adopt or accept a big government position. It's not for the Freedom Caucus to conform to your views on what is pragmatic, scraping the desires of their constituencies, and their own beliefs. They were elected by the people the represent to do a job, and by not acquiescing to big government Republicans they have done so. If big government Republicans decide to run to the left now, they'll have to defend their actions to their own constituencies, given that they have been campaigning on a repeal for the last 8 years; while the Freedom Caucus will be able to campaign on their success in defeating Obamacare 2.0. The libertarian surge in this country is a very real thing, and when big government types like yourself try to marginalize us, we will make it impossible for you to govern. As I've been saying for years, give me something I can support, or expect me to upend the table. We aren't going anywhere. Sounds like you are having a meltdown! Looks like the bill is off the table for now. I respect and appreciate the problem with this, but the silver lining for me is that it's nice to see some people with a spine. The left caved to pass ACA faster than a Barack Obama red line in the dirt, and they have Macungie to show for it. The left caved so fast....it took them 18 months....dbag.....how is thar GOP HC plan you promised me coming....? 7 years of practice and preparation....GOP IS A JOKE Edited March 24, 2017 by baskin
TakeYouToTasker Posted March 24, 2017 Posted March 24, 2017 Sounds like you are having a meltdown! How did you manage to !@#$ up your quote tags so bad? Either way, I fixed them for you. That said, me being pleased with the Freedom Caucus and today's outcome constitutes a meltdown? You're an idiot.
IDBillzFan Posted March 24, 2017 Posted March 24, 2017 The left caved so fast....it took them 18 months....dbag.....how is thar GOP HC plan you promised me coming....? I never promised you anything. And unlike a mindless SoProg such as yourself, I'm happy to see the GOP not forcing their partymembers to do something they were not elected to do. If your party did that, we wouldn't watching Obamacare collapse and leave millions uninsured. Hey, while you're here doing nothing, can you go back and find the documentation that backs your claim that the GOP wrote Obamacare in the first place? We'll wait here. Thanks. That said, me being pleased with the Freedom Caucus and today's outcome constitutes a meltdown? You'll have to forgive baskin. As a life-long progressive, original thought fails him, so he goes with the old "I'm rubber, you're glue..." bit.
Magox Posted March 24, 2017 Posted March 24, 2017 (edited) I wouldn't be surprised to see Trump now try to strike a deal with Democrats. And at this stage, it is clear to me that the Republicans are not a party that is fit to lead. I would completely support the idea of Trump now reaching out to Democrats and just making a few reforms to the bill as opposed to repealing large portions of it. Now rather than having 75% of what a "conservative" bill would have, now you'd be lucky to get 35% of "conservative" reforms. Under a deal with Democrats, I think it would look like the following: A) Medicaid would stay as is B) Subsidies would stay with some modifications C) Most of the Essential benefits would stay, probably not all. D) Most of the taxes would stay, specially on the "rich", Republicans would in exchange get A) some level of Tort reform B) maybe a repeal of the excise and medical devices C) maybe competing across state lines D) Allowance of carriers to create higher deductible plans The moderate republicans would be all for this and the more conservative Republicans would be up in arms. But if you strike a deal with Democrats, there would be no filibuster and all they'd need is 51 votes and you'd probably get a lot of Democrats to push it through the finish line. Edited March 24, 2017 by Magox
TakeYouToTasker Posted March 24, 2017 Posted March 24, 2017 (edited) If Trump attempts it, it will fail, and such will be his legacy. Libertarian leaning Republicans saved the country from another pass it to see what's in it national nightmare; as non-principled, "me first", morally fluid, big government Republicans tried to pass an ill-conceived non-solution for the sake of passing something. Today true conservatives demonstrated the power of a big tent, with a wide cross section of belief systems, which prevented something terrible from happening as they refused to move in lock step. A major slap to the unprincipled for whom the only virtue is pragmatic political expedience. Trump, Ryan, and other mealy-mouthed big government types hopefully learned their lesson: You can't be pragmatic without first being principled. Edited March 24, 2017 by TakeYouToTasker
Doc Brown Posted March 24, 2017 Posted March 24, 2017 I wouldn't be surprised to see Trump now try to strike a deal with Democrats. And at this stage, it is clear to me that the Republicans are not a party that is fit to lead. I would completely support the idea of Trump now reaching out to Democrats and just making a few reforms to the bill as opposed to repealing large portions of it. Now rather than having 75% of what a "conservative" bill would have, now you'd be lucky to get 35% of "conservative" reforms. Under a deal with Democrats, I think it would look like the following: A) Medicaid would stay as is B) Subsidies would stay with some modifications C) Most of the Essential benefits would stay, probably not all. D) Most of the taxes would stay, specially on the "rich", Republicans would in exchange get A) some level of Tort reform B) maybe a repeal of the excise and medical devices C) maybe competing across state lines D) Allowance of carriers to create higher deductible plans The moderate republicans would be all for this and the more conservative Republicans would be up in arms. But if you strike a deal with Democrats, there would be no filibuster and all they'd need is 51 votes and you'd probably get a lot of Democrats to push it through the finish line. I found it interesting that Trump hinted towards that at his press conference. He's ticked off at the far right. It would be great if the moderates in both parties would work together and effectively making the "socialists" and "tea party" helpless.
PastaJoe Posted March 24, 2017 Posted March 24, 2017 Paul Ryan failed in passing tax breaks for the wealthy disguised as health reform, so he's going to move on to tax breaks for the wealthy disguised as middle class tax reform. Trump didn't really care about the details of the bill, he just wanted a win to fulfill a campaign promise. Now his reputation as a dealmaker is exposed as a fallacy, and his signature campaign promise has been broken. After Ryan cried "uncle" and pulled the bill, Trump said, "I think what happened is the best thing that could happen.". So he was for it before he was against it. I agree the best alternative is for Democrats to work with moderate Repubs to come up with modifications to the ACA, or even single payer, and offer it to Trump as a win-win for Americans and Trump.
Magox Posted March 24, 2017 Posted March 24, 2017 I found it interesting that Trump hinted towards that at his press conference. He's ticked off at the far right. It would be great if the moderates in both parties would work together and effectively making the "socialists" and "tea party" helpless. He did. I'd love for that to happen, unfortunately I don't see that happening any time soon. The Mainstream media and radio hucksters have a firm grip on their political bases.
Tiberius Posted March 24, 2017 Posted March 24, 2017 Paul Ryan failed in passing tax breaks for the wealthy disguised as health reform, so he's going to move on to tax breaks for the wealthy disguised as middle class tax reform. Trump didn't really care about the details of the bill, he just wanted a win to fulfill a campaign promise. Now his reputation as a dealmaker is exposed as a fallacy, and his signature campaign promise has been broken. After Ryan cried "uncle" and pulled the bill, Trump said, "I think what happened is the best thing that could happen.". So he was for it before he was against it. I agree the best alternative is for Democrats to work with moderate Repubs to come up with modifications to the ACA, or even single payer, and offer it to Trump as a win-win for Americans and Trump. This. Especially that first sentence
bdutton Posted March 24, 2017 Posted March 24, 2017 7 years of practice and preparation....GOP IS A JOKE To be fair, the DNC lost more seats in the Presidential Election (a buffoon), Governors and state houses to the GOP and failed to gain enough seats in congress to obstruct the GOP. So its not like the DNC has a whole lot to brag about.
Meathead Posted March 24, 2017 Posted March 24, 2017 This is what we are dealing with, people run off with ideas that they hear politicians and other hucksters say and then they run with it passing it off as fact, when in reality it is a lot more complicated than these inaccurate claims. If people truly had an understanding of the process and reality then we would have a much more reasoned debate. i dont think its the process holding that back. its total all-out culture war, nobody wanting to give any ground, more focused on settling old scores than actually doing something productive if anything is in a death spiral its logic and reason. we are deluged with out and out lies far more than we deal with facts and realities. the whole culture now is click based and everybody competes for their side to get the most clicks. its massive conflicts of groupthink we see it right here in this forum. its dominated by biased partisan narratives. there really is no actual discussion that leads to consensus outside of rigid partisan lines. its permanent gridlock
DC Tom Posted March 24, 2017 Posted March 24, 2017 if anything is in a death spiral its logic No, he seems to be going strong. Which is unfortunate, as I've read his posts.
Meathead Posted March 24, 2017 Posted March 24, 2017 I wouldn't be surprised to see Trump now try to strike a deal with Democrats. And at this stage, it is clear to me that the Republicans are not a party that is fit to lead. I would completely support the idea of Trump now reaching out to Democrats and just making a few reforms to the bill as opposed to repealing large portions of it. Now rather than having 75% of what a "conservative" bill would have, now you'd be lucky to get 35% of "conservative" reforms. ... The moderate republicans would be all for this and the more conservative Republicans would be up in arms. But if you strike a deal with Democrats, there would be no filibuster and all they'd need is 51 votes and you'd probably get a lot of Democrats to push it through the finish line. agreed this could and should actually be a very good thing for america. the ACA is doing both spectacularly well and spectacularly bad depending on which regions youre talking about. now maybe they will finally focus on fixing the areas that are broken there instead of this sick fantasy of a full repeal the funny thing is that the republicans would get credit for any fixes that made to the ACA so they really didnt have to go down that path at all. just get ppl the care and service they want and they will sing republicans praises. the dems would get still get some credit for starting it all, but really the republicans would own it a lot more than the dems at that point. its what they should have been doing in the first place
PastaJoe Posted March 24, 2017 Posted March 24, 2017 There is still a possiblity that Trump will order HHS Secretary Price to change some of the ACA regulations, which would be an alternative way to tamper with it. If they do so and modify the ACA regulations from what was orginally enacted, they then take ownership of it as Trumpcare. So will Trump be vindictive and try to weaken it, or will he act presidential and work for a bipartisan solution.
GG Posted March 24, 2017 Posted March 24, 2017 or will he act presidential and work for a bipartisan solution.
Magox Posted March 25, 2017 Posted March 25, 2017 There is still a possiblity that Trump will order HHS Secretary Price to change some of the ACA regulations, which would be an alternative way to tamper with it. If they do so and modify the ACA regulations from what was orginally enacted, they then take ownership of it as Trumpcare. So will Trump be vindictive and try to weaken it, or will he act presidential and work for a bipartisan solution. Well, that is a stretch. It still will Obama's law and yes the media would try to spin it that way along with Democrats but that would be a tough sell. But aside from your partisan sniping, that is an interesting question. Will he and Price try to help gut it from within via HHS undoing of specific regulations or will he do the right thing and try to stabilize the market as much as possible until some sort of resolution comes about. One thing is for sure, the insurance industry, hospitals and doctor associations will all be lobbying for him to attempt to stabilize it. I'm not sure which way they'll go. Right now, I don't believe Trump even knows which way he'd go. I'm think he'll try to roll the right wing and strike a deal with Democrats. But probably not until 2018.
Magox Posted March 25, 2017 Posted March 25, 2017 Sad! The GOP was counting on wiping out nearly $1 trillion in Obamacare taxes to help finance the sweeping tax cuts they’ve got planned for their next legislative act. And now it’s unclear where all that money will come from. “This does make tax reform more difficult, but it does not in any way make it impossible,” House Speaker Paul Ryan said at a news conference on Friday. “We will proceed with tax reform.”
DC Tom Posted March 25, 2017 Posted March 25, 2017 Sad! I can't help but get this feeling that the next two years are going to be Congress relentlessly poking itself in the eye with a sharp stick.
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