Rockpile233 Posted March 24, 2017 Posted March 24, 2017 No, it's the success of Paul, and the Freedom Caucus, who have saved Americans from another terrible healthcare law. The failure was with the White House and Paul Ryan, who were unable to craft legislation that the Freedom Caucus could sign off on. They were unable to do their job. Pandering to one, relatively small, group of people makes a lot of sense. Yup.
B-Man Posted March 24, 2017 Posted March 24, 2017 Pandering to one, relatively small, group of people makes a lot of sense. Yup. You mean...........representatives of millions of Americans ?.......................................Yep.
Tiberius Posted March 24, 2017 Posted March 24, 2017 You mean...........representatives of millions of Americans ?.......................................Yep. Hey idiot, you know how many Americans there are?
Rockpile233 Posted March 24, 2017 Posted March 24, 2017 You mean...........representatives of millions of Americans ?.......................................Yep. Did you miss the "relatively small" part? I would like you to repond in article format.
meazza Posted March 24, 2017 Posted March 24, 2017 Did you miss the "relatively small" part? I would like you to repond in article format. So you don't care about minorities?
Rockpile233 Posted March 24, 2017 Posted March 24, 2017 So you don't care about minorities? This feels a little uninspired.
B-Man Posted March 24, 2017 Posted March 24, 2017 Did you miss the "relatively small" part? I would like you to repond in article format. Good Lord........let me spell it out then This relatively small group of people they are "pandering" to are REPRESENTATIVES................of MILLIONS of people who want the ACA repealed. ,
Rockpile233 Posted March 24, 2017 Posted March 24, 2017 (edited) Good Lord........let me spell it out then This relatively small group of people they are "pandering" to are REPRESENTATIVES................of MILLIONS of people who want the ACA repealed. , You still aren't getting it are you? Edited March 24, 2017 by Rockpile233
meazza Posted March 24, 2017 Posted March 24, 2017 This feels a little uninspired. Again, why does the minority not matter when it's a minority you don't care about? Personally I don't actually care about the bill, I just enjoy pointing out inconsistencies in people's arguments.
Rockpile233 Posted March 24, 2017 Posted March 24, 2017 (edited) Again, why does the minority not matter when it's a minority you don't care about? Personally I don't actually care about the bill, I just enjoy pointing out inconsistencies in people's arguments. I never said that. I'm all about compromise. The far right is as terrible as the far left. Both groups need to reflect on their extreme positions and realize logically they would need to give up the most ground. I was originally responding to a person who wants everyone to acknowledge taxation as an evil. Some real old testament ****. Obviously that person's minority position would stand to give up the most ground. Edited March 24, 2017 by Rockpile233
ExiledInIllinois Posted March 24, 2017 Posted March 24, 2017 Don't worry Donald. Healthcare ate First Lady Hillary up too. You guys got something in common now. So sad!
meazza Posted March 24, 2017 Posted March 24, 2017 I never said that. I'm all about compromise. The far right is as terrible as the far left. Both groups need to reflect on their extreme positions and realize logically they would need to give up the most ground. That's a better argument.
DC Tom Posted March 24, 2017 Posted March 24, 2017 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_Equity_and_Access_Reform_Today_Act_of_1993 I already linked this last week You're an idiot http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2013/nov/15/ellen-qualls/aca-gop-health-care-plan-1993/ No, it wasn't. Go wikiwarrior somewhere else.
Tiberius Posted March 24, 2017 Posted March 24, 2017 Oh man, Nancy P talking trash about Trump's rookie error, lol
Doc Brown Posted March 24, 2017 Posted March 24, 2017 No, it's the success of Paul, and the Freedom Caucus, who have saved Americans from another terrible healthcare law. The failure was with the White House and Paul Ryan, who were unable to craft legislation that the Freedom Caucus could sign off on. They were unable to do their job. Plus, it's unlikely to pass the Senate with the new CBO score. If history is an indicator, the GOP would be smart to keep the ACA in place and focus on tax reforms, passing budget, infrastructure, etc.. This new bill will be completely owned by the Republicans.
snafu Posted March 24, 2017 Posted March 24, 2017 Plus, it's unlikely to pass the Senate with the new CBO score. If history is an indicator, the GOP would be smart to keep the ACA in place and focus on tax reforms, passing budget, infrastructure, etc.. This new bill will be completely owned by the Republicans. The GOP isn't smart. That's the problem. They're morons who can't get their *#%$ together and it keeps the dumber, but more partisan and cohesive Dems in the game. Embarrassing.
Magox Posted March 24, 2017 Posted March 24, 2017 No, it's the success of Paul, and the Freedom Caucus, who have saved Americans from another terrible healthcare law. The failure was with the White House and Paul Ryan, who were unable to craft legislation that the Freedom Caucus could sign off on. They were unable to do their job. TyTT, lets be real here. You, nor most of these guys were all that familiar with the Byrd Rule and what could or could not be permitted through budget reconciliation. Not only were they not familiar with the legislative process but they lack complete awareness of the political realities. Or the fact that once it passes the house then it has to go to the senate and it will be changed once it gets there. Then if it were to pass the Senate then it would go to conference where more changes would be made. Plus, the way the bill would be crafted it would provide broad discretion to the HHS to make regulatory reforms, reforms that wouldn't be able to be implemented under budget reconciliation. So to believe that voting for this bill is representative of what a final product would look like is simply put, pure ignorance. If they can't get this done, the Republican party would prove the Democrats right, which is that they aren't fit to lead. They make one hell of an opposition party, but when it comes to forming consensus, they struggle. There are more middle of the Road Republicans than there are staunch ultra conservatives and advancing what the Freedom Caucus wants is a non starter for a number of these politicians and same vice versa. I think enough Freedom Caucus and some of the more moderate voices will end up getting this through to the house, but if they can't..... Well, Obamacare could stay. What would Trump do? Probably look to get tax reform done and then possibly may decide to go a totally different route, which is to then work with Democrats, not by repealing Obamacare but portions of it and adding some Republican ideas. He probably would get as many Democrats on board as Republicans to push through legislation, and all they would need is 50 votes because no filibuster would be used. You mean...........representatives of millions of Americans ?.......................................Yep. Uhh, if you think what the Freedom caucus is what the American public would want, then you are deluding yourself. I never said that. I'm all about compromise. The far right is as terrible as the far left. Both groups need to reflect on their extreme positions and realize logically they would need to give up the most ground. I was originally responding to a person who wants everyone to acknowledge taxation as an evil. Some real old testament ****. Obviously that person's minority position would stand to give up the most ground. Yes, compromise. You are right, the far right and the far left are both corrosive forces in American politics. That's a better argument. yep Plus, it's unlikely to pass the Senate with the new CBO score. If history is an indicator, the GOP would be smart to keep the ACA in place and focus on tax reforms, passing budget, infrastructure, etc.. This new bill will be completely owned by the Republicans. Well, the CBO score will play no factor in what the Senate does because they would change it to their liking. However to your second point, the new bill would be completely owned by them. Personally, I always believed when you do something as big and impactful as healthcare, you should always do it on a bipartisan basis. The Republicans haven't learned from the Democrats mistakes which is to do it on a party line basis is asking for political disaster. What they should do is to work with Democrats and not repeal and gut the law but to repeal portions of it and add Republican provisions to make it more market based than it is. If they were to do that, they could improve the law and lower premiums. They still may end up doing that if these efforts fail. The GOP isn't smart. That's the problem. They're morons who can't get their *#%$ together and it keeps the dumber, but more partisan and cohesive Dems in the game. Embarrassing. True. The GOP and Democrats are both hyper partisan morons. Dysfunction, total dysfunction. With the mainstream media and polarizing organizations, talk radio and the advent of Social Media, it is nearly impossible to form consensus and bipartisanship. Look at what the Democrats did, they tried to jam through their nonsensical laws and they got crushed at every level. Now that the GOP is in control, they don't know how to wield that power. They are a bunch of clowns.
Doc Brown Posted March 24, 2017 Posted March 24, 2017 (edited) TyTT, lets be real here. You, nor most of these guys were all that familiar with the Byrd Rule and what could or could not be permitted through budget reconciliation. Not only were they not familiar with the legislative process but they lack complete awareness of the political realities. Or the fact that once it passes the house then it has to go to the senate and it will be changed once it gets there. Then if it were to pass the Senate then it would go to conference where more changes would be made. Plus, the way the bill would be crafted it would provide broad discretion to the HHS to make regulatory reforms, reforms that wouldn't be able to be implemented under budget reconciliation. So to believe that voting for this bill is representative of what a final product would look like is simply put, pure ignorance. If they can't get this done, the Republican party would prove the Democrats right, which is that they aren't fit to lead. They make one hell of an opposition party, but when it comes to forming consensus, they struggle. There are more middle of the Road Republicans than there are staunch ultra conservatives and advancing what the Freedom Caucus wants is a non starter for a number of these politicians and same vice versa. I think enough Freedom Caucus and some of the more moderate voices will end up getting this through to the house, but if they can't..... Well, Obamacare could stay. What would Trump do? Probably look to get tax reform done and then possibly may decide to go a totally different route, which is to then work with Democrats, not by repealing Obamacare but portions of it and adding some Republican ideas. He probably would get as many Democrats on board as Republicans to push through legislation, and all they would need is 50 votes because no filibuster would be used. Uhh, if you think what the Freedom caucus is what the American public would want, then you are deluding yourself. Yes, compromise. You are right, the far right and the far left are both corrosive forces in American politics. yep Well, the CBO score will play no factor in what the Senate does because they would change it to their liking. However to your second point, the new bill would be completely owned by them. Personally, I always believed when you do something as big and impactful as healthcare, you should always do it on a bipartisan basis. The Republicans haven't learned from the Democrats mistakes which is to do it on a party line basis is asking for political disaster. What they should do is to work with Democrats and not repeal and gut the law but to repeal portions of it and add Republican provisions to make it more market based than it is. If they were to do that, they could improve the law and lower premiums. They still may end up doing that if these efforts fail. True. The GOP and Democrats are both hyper partisan morons. Dysfunction, total dysfunction. With the mainstream media and polarizing organizations, talk radio and the advent of Social Media, it is nearly impossible to form consensus and bipartisanship. Look at what the Democrats did, they tried to jam through their nonsensical laws and they got crushed at every level. Now that the GOP is in control, they don't know how to wield that power. They are a bunch of clowns. I agree with everything you typed (although the CBO score may shape public opinion which is everything to them). From my limited understanding of the founding fathers, they wanted to make the federal government difficult for bills to get passed through in order to give more power to the states. That's why they have the 60-40 rule in the Senate. I think it was Nixon who pushed the nuclear option requiring a simple majority. Harry Reid got greedy and employed the nuclear option and that has driven the parties even farther apart as Republicans are following Reid's nuclear option on almost all the cabinet appointees. As you said, cable news, social media, and talk radio is a huge reason this country is so divided. Just looking at these boards. Like this Gorsich pick. Dems are filibustering it for payback of the Republicans not having a vote on Gardner. Now, the nuclear option will open up for Supreme Court nominees. I feel like both parties are just being childish because all they care about is winning reelection and that means gridlock. I guess now that the GOP controls all three branches maybe they'll get something of value done. Not a good start though. Edited March 24, 2017 by Doc Brown
Magox Posted March 24, 2017 Posted March 24, 2017 The Freedom-from-reality-caucus The House GOP yanked its health-care bill on Thursday ahead of a planned vote, and perhaps they’ll reconvene on Friday or later. But as Republicans contemplate wasting this historic reform opportunity, they should start thinking about the costs and responsibility of failure. The delay is said to be a defeat for President Trump and Speaker Paul Ryan, but both men have done about as much as they can. They’ve listened to different points of view across a diverse coalition of Members and 33 Governors, and the House bill is a realistic compromise that can improve health-care markets, protect the federal fisc and, by the way, has a chance of becoming law. No one has offered a better policy alternative to the American Health Care Act that could pass the House and Senate. The real obstacle to progress has been the 29 or so Members of the House Freedom Caucus, who have the power to deny Mr. Ryan a majority of 216 with a mere 22-vote margin of error. The Freedom Caucus blocked incremental reform progress after the GOP took Congress under President Obama, and the question is whether they will indulge the same rule-or-ruin tactics now against Mr. Trump. As recently as Wednesday, the White House and congressional leadership had nearly whipped a majority for the bill. But the coalition broke down as the Freedom Caucus made 11th-hour demands about ObamaCare’s “essential health benefits,” or EHB. The EHB regulations define 10 broad categories of health-care services that all ObamaCare-compliant insurance plans must cover. Conservatives argue that rescinding these rules qualifies for the “reconciliation” process that requires only an up-or-down Senate vote. Because EHB mandates increase the cost of insurance—by 3% to 17%, depending on the estimate—repealing them might lower federal costs and therefore be eligible. But there’s a debate about that in Congress, and Mr. Ryan and Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell want to make sure that the Senate parliamentarian doesn’t reject the bill in toto on procedural grounds. Ordinarily this would be no way to make policy, but amid unanimous Democratic “resistance,” Republicans have little recourse. The Freedom Caucus responded by converting EHB and reconciliation into matters of high principle. The result has been a slew of negative media coverage about the insurers that would be supposedly unshackled to dump coverage for cancer, maternity and substance-abuse care. That led in turn to a cascade of centrist GOP defections. The Freedom Caucus didn’t relent on Thursday, though they did give Mr. Trump a standing ovation when he sat down with them in the White House for a last-ditch appeal. There hasn’t been this much faithless acclaim since Julius Caesar stood on the floor of the Roman Senate in 44 B.C. Repealing EHB is good policy, but some of its distortions can be fixed administratively, and is EHB worth capsizing the entire bill? The Freedom Caucus is saying one regulation is more important than everything else the bill does, such as cutting spending on net by $1.15 trillion, cutting taxes by $999 billion and reducing the deficit by $150 billion under the latest Congressional Budget Office estimates. If the Freedom Caucus thinks a more conservative bill will emerge if this one fails, they have more illusions than the Hillary Clinton campaign. If Mr. Trump concludes he can’t win with the Republican majority, he may well try to negotiate with Chuck Schumer and Nancy Pelosi and the cost of their votes will make the Ryan bill look like free-market heaven. By insisting on the impossible over the achievable, these self-styled guardians of conservative purity could become the worst friends conservative ideas and free markets have had in decades. Pretty much everything I've been saying for the past 10 days.
GG Posted March 24, 2017 Posted March 24, 2017 Pandering to one, relatively small, group of people makes a lot of sense. Yup. I know, that would be so undemocratic. It's as if memory banks are completely wiped out after 8 years.
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