The Affordable Care Act II - Because Mr. Obama Loves You All

[IDBillzFan]

What a quandary, you have different factions of the GOP all fighting over what should be done. You have the hardliners pure market driven people who are pulling in one direction, then you have the moderate/centrists who want slightly more expanded coverage, then you have the populists, who essentially want entitlements and near universal coverage and then you have GOP leadership Ryan/Price who are stuck in the middle.

 

While I agree it's a quandry, I also am happy to see it happen. The last time a political group completely toed the line of its leadership -- with essentially no pushback that didn't get paid off by the WH to get back in line-- we got Obamacare.

 

I take it as a good sign that the people are finally being represented. I've long been a believer that if you have, say, 18 people running something, and all 18 always agree all the time, you don't need 17 of those people. That's the political left in this country. They're not thinking people. They do what they're told by their elite leadership, when they're told, regardless of who elected them. It's one of the reasons Trump is president.

 

While I prefer to see Obamacare collapse, I'm happy to see enough diversity and openness in the GOP to the extent that they can arrive at a chiseled program for the people who put them in power to dismantle what has proven to be the single biggest political blunder in my lifetime.

[TH3]

 

While I agree it's a quandry, I also am happy to see it happen. The last time a political group completely toed the line of its leadership -- with essentially no pushback that didn't get paid off by the WH to get back in line-- we got Obamacare.

 

I take it as a good sign that the people are finally being represented. I've long been a believer that if you have, say, 18 people running something, and all 18 always agree all the time, you don't need 17 of those people. That's the political left in this country. They're not thinking people. They do what they're told by their elite leadership, when they're told, regardless of who elected them. It's one of the reasons Trump is president.

 

While I prefer to see Obamacare collapse, I'm happy to see enough diversity and openness in the GOP to the extent that they can arrive at a chiseled program for the people who put them in power to dismantle what has proven to be the single biggest political blunder in my lifetime.

 

You are an idiot

[Magox]

 

While I agree it's a quandry, I also am happy to see it happen. The last time a political group completely toed the line of its leadership -- with essentially no pushback that didn't get paid off by the WH to get back in line-- we got Obamacare.

 

I take it as a good sign that the people are finally being represented. I've long been a believer that if you have, say, 18 people running something, and all 18 always agree all the time, you don't need 17 of those people. That's the political left in this country. They're not thinking people. They do what they're told by their elite leadership, when they're told, regardless of who elected them. It's one of the reasons Trump is president.

 

While I prefer to see Obamacare collapse, I'm happy to see enough diversity and openness in the GOP to the extent that they can arrive at a chiseled program for the people who put them in power to dismantle what has proven to be the single biggest political blunder in my lifetime.

 

 

Two points that I'd like to make-

 

In regards to waiting for Obamacare to collapse- if you are waiting for this to happen, it won't happen before 2018 midterms. This is their chance to do something about while they have control of the house, senate and presidency. Sure you could wait, but it's a big risk if you are indeed in the camp of wanting to do something about it. I remember, not even one month ago there were calls being made from the right as to why they hadn't moved on the repeal and replace bill. Now that Ryan/Price are moving on it, all of a sudden people are realizing how difficult it is and they want to wait a little while.

 

You can wait, personally I would have liked to have seen tax reform along with infrastructure first and then obamacare. But I get the reasoning why they tackled this first, and to not get into the weeds too much, but health insurers were looking for some guidance because the rate setting process HAS ALREADY BEGUN for next year, the filings have begun, actuaries are looking at the rate proposals and they need to know the rules of the game. So if you want to repeal the ACA this year, you have to do this first. You can learn about that process here.

 

Guys like Cruz, Paul and the freedom caucus are good at opposing but they aren't realists. They don't understand the prospect of actually governing. It's easy to rail on something, it's another to actually put proposals together that can actually get through reconciliation rules and then passed with enough votes to actually become law.

 

My hopes is that I'm wrong about them and that they play a constructive role in wanting to put together a realistic compromise. That's what this is really about, its about people who are sincerely working in good faith to make a bad situation better. If they only propose and are willing to accept their version of what is right, then they aren't a constructive force.

Edited March 15, 2017 by Magox

[IDBillzFan]

 

You are an idiot

 

Thanks, gator. Coming from you, this is high praise, indeed. I'm epecially impressed with how close you came to actually completing a full sentence. Good work.

 

 

My hopes is that I'm wrong about them and that they play a constructive role in wanting to put together a realistic compromise. That's what this is really about, its about people who are sincerely working in good faith to make a bad situation better. If they only propose and are willing to accept their version of what is right, then they aren't a constructive force.

 

I suspect you'll find Cruz with work with them, and depending on how it comes together, maybe even Paul will jump in. I suspect it's more difficult for him after he did his whole "They won't let me in the room!" thing.

[Meathead]

 

You are an idiot

 

i try not to call names, though i do slip when i get completely exasperated

 

but unfortunately i agree

 

rooting for the only safety net for many of millions of ppl to fail is wishing extreme suffering and hardship on them. its disgusting

 

idk if hes stupid or a cold hearted dick but either way its idiotic

[Magox]

 

Thanks, gator. Coming from you, this is high praise, indeed. I'm epecially impressed with how close you came to actually completing a full sentence. Good work.

 

 

 

I suspect you'll find Cruz with work with them, and depending on how it comes together, maybe even Paul will jump in. I suspect it's more difficult for him after he did his whole "They won't let me in the room!" thing.

 

I hope so, their goodwill would go a long way with the possibilities of ending the ACA.

[IDBillzFan]

 

i try not to call names, though i do slip when i get completely exasperated

 

but unfortunately i agree

 

rooting for the only safety net for many of millions of ppl to fail is wishing extreme suffering and hardship on them. its disgusting

 

idk if hes stupid or a cold hearted dick but either way its idiotic

 

Gee. when baskin AND meathead think I'm an idiot, I must be on to something good.

 

Oh, and hey...there is ALWAYS a safety net for millions of people who can't afford either insurance or coverage. If Obamacare collapses, people will still be cared for.

 

Well, everyone but Democrats, but you both probably know that, don't you.

 

Of course you do.

[Meathead]

It's easy to rail on something,

 

this applies to everything. its a major ingredient to fostering mob behavior

 

whats easier, listening to comprehensive analysis on how to get past very difficult intractable problems, or to shout down the guy who is

 

groupthink aka partisanship is a terrible, terrible barrier to real progress

[IDBillzFan]

groupthink aka partisanship is a terrible, terrible barrier to real progress

 

Probably why the Democrats have been left in charge of nothing but the Greater Macungie Utilities Commission...and Detroit.

 

Perhaps a few more limos on fire and vagina dresses will really help them next time.

[HappyDays]

http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/3/14/14923784/christopher-ruddy-medicaid

 

Close Trump friend says ditch Paul Ryan's plan and embrace universal health care

 

A key Trump friend and ally is urging the president to dump Paul Ryans Affordable Health Care Act and embrace something that sounds sort of like a lightweight version of a single-payer health care system. Christopher Ruddy, CEO of the conservative Newsmax brand, isnt normally considered a major thought leader on policy issues, but he is a longtime friend of Trumps, and counts as one of a relatively small number of conservative players who have closer ties to Trump than to congressional Republican leaders.

 

And he is warning loud and clear that Trump could inherit the bad political baggage of both Obamacare and the House Republicans if he insists on going along with Ryans version of repealing and replacing Obamacare.

 

Instead, Ruddy puts forward the rather radical notion that Trump should attempt to live up to his campaign promises on health care rather than signing on to legislation that betrays them all. To do it, he encourages Trump to ditch his effort to court the Freedom Caucus and instead come up with a bipartisan plan that accepts a large government role in providing insurance coverage.

 

The Ruddycare seven-point plan

In an op-ed published Tuesday, Ruddy argues that Trump should be sticking to his own gut on healthcare reform. He did this during the campaign, which helped him win Democratic states like Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania.

 

And he offers the following seven-point game plan for Trump to regain the initiative:

 

Ditch the Freedom Caucus and the handful of Senate Republicans who want a complete repeal of Obamacare. They don't agree with universal coverage and will never be placated.

Find a few parts of Ryancare II [i.e., the AHCA; Ryancare I refers to Paul Ryans longstanding desire to privatize Medicare] that can win passage in the House and Senate with either GOP support or bipartisan support. Declare victory.

Rekindle the bipartisanship in Congress that President Obama destroyed. Impanel a bipartisan committee to report back by year's end with a feasible plan to fix Obamacare.

Reject the phony private health insurance market as the panacea. Look to an upgraded Medicaid system to become the country's blanket insurer for the uninsured.

Tie Medicaid funding to states with the requirement that each pass legislation to allow for a truly nationwide health care market.

Get Democrats to agree to modest tort reform to help lower medical costs.

While bolstering Medicare and improving Medicaid, get Republicans and Democrats to back the long-term fix of health savings accounts. This allows individuals to fund their own health care and even profit from it.

As a pure political strategy, the key elements here are probably the first three points. A commission probably wont lead to any major changes, but thats okay. According to the Congressional Budget Office, the Affordable Care Act exchanges will probably stabilize in the next year or two even if nothing changes. Trump can do nothing and fix it.

 

But steps 4 through 7 do suggest a route to a possible future vision of American health care.

This all sounds pretty reasonable to me.

[meazza]

 

i try not to call names, though i do slip when i get completely exasperated

 

but unfortunately i agree

 

rooting for the only safety net for many of millions of ppl to fail is wishing extreme suffering and hardship on them. its disgusting

 

idk if hes stupid or a cold hearted dick but either way its idiotic

 

Sure thing.

 

Tell me again about how white supremacists who post lynchings are just misunderstood all the while talking about how you understand black people.

[Meathead]

http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/3/14/14923784/christopher-ruddy-medicaid

 

 

This all sounds pretty reasonable to me.

 

definitely agreed

[Magox]

http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/3/14/14923784/christopher-ruddy-medicaid

 

 

This all sounds pretty reasonable to me.

 

I saw that and referenced to what "populists" wanted in an earlier post. There is no way that he'd be able to get even 50% of Republicans to get on board with this, the Freedom Caucus would go ape ****, Republican leadership would not usher this in, he'd have to get rid of Tom Price and would need at least 50% of Democrats to go along with it.

 

It's a pipe dream.

 

However, the idea of going in the direction of expanding coverage is not and can be done with the proper concessions.

 

definitely agreed

 

It's not reasonable, because it is not realistic.

[Meathead]

i understand. im just saying that would be an acceptable solution

 

ive said many time, i dont care what the final solution looks like or who gets credit for it. i just want everybody covered ... and based on what weve learned from the aca failure in the middle, something that everybody can actually use

[GG]

 

 

Two points that I'd like to make-

 

In regards to waiting for Obamacare to collapse- if you are waiting for this to happen, it won't happen before 2018 midterms. This is their chance to do something about while they have control of the house, senate and presidency. Sure you could wait, but it's a big risk if you are indeed in the camp of wanting to do something about it. I remember, not even one month ago there were calls being made from the right as to why they hadn't moved on the repeal and replace bill. Now that Ryan/Price are moving on it, all of a sudden people are realizing how difficult it is and they want to wait a little while.

 

 

GOP will not let ACA collapse because they won't live with the negative repercussions of grandma losing her healthcare. Not that grandma will lose her healthcare, but Dems and allied media are salivating at the prospect of people losing coverage to regain the talking points. There's no way that the story will be spun that Obamacare died its inevitable death. The story will be that Trump & GOP killed it.

[Meathead]

 

GOP will not let ACA collapse because they won't live with the negative repercussions of grandma losing her healthcare. Not that grandma will lose her healthcare, but Dems and allied media are salivating at the prospect of people losing coverage to regain the talking points. There's no way that the story will be spun that Obamacare died its inevitable death. The story will be that Trump & GOP killed it.

 

ty

 

obamacare became trumpcare by default the minute he was sworn in. there is zero chance anybody but hardline partisans are going to fault anybody else if that happens, and by then nobody would listen to the hardliners

[IDBillzFan]

 

ty

 

obamacare became trumpcare by default the minute he was sworn in.

 

And you think I'm the idiot.

 

How did a law passed ONLY by Democrats suddenly become Trumpcare?

 

Let me guess: racism.

[Magox]

i understand. im just saying that would be an acceptable solution

 

ive said many time, i dont care what the final solution looks like or who gets credit for it. i just want everybody covered ... and based on what weve learned from the aca failure in the middle, something that everybody can actually use

 

I have hopes that something better will be passed, but I have my doubts that it will actually come about.

 

We have a dysfunctional political society that is filled with political agitators from both sides of the aisle.

 

It's sort of like Hamas. Hamas exists because there is conflict with Israel. Without the conflict, there is no cause and without a cause there is no existence for them. So it is in their benefit to always stir up opposition and hysteria.

 

Same things with talk radio, the media hucksters, mainstream media etc. Without conflict, there is no cause. It benefits CNN to always be opposed to Conservative orthodoxy, it is in the interests of Hannity to always be in opposition to Democrats or Levin, Ingraham, Breitbart and Rush to rail on the so-called establishment at every turn.

 

The environment is toxic. Those that have a real interest in getting things done are in the wrong business. Politics is for actors and provocative demagogues.

 

GOP will not let ACA collapse because they won't live with the negative repercussions of grandma losing her healthcare. Not that grandma will lose her healthcare, but Dems and allied media are salivating at the prospect of people losing coverage to regain the talking points. There's no way that the story will be spun that Obamacare died its inevitable death. The story will be that Trump & GOP killed it.

 

Exactly!

[GG]

 

And you think I'm the idiot.

 

How did a law passed ONLY by Democrats suddenly become Trumpcare?

 

Let me guess: racism.

 

I have to agree with meat on this one. Every bad ACA outcome from now on will be blamed on Trump & GOP because they're obviously the impediment to the great law's success. Doesn't make it right, but that's how the spin is now doctored.

Edited March 15, 2017 by GG

[Magox]

 

And you think I'm the idiot.

 

How did a law passed ONLY by Democrats suddenly become Trumpcare?

 

Let me guess: racism.

 

As soon as the mandate is lifted and/or the word is out that they aren't penalizing those without health insurance, there is a strong argument to be had that Trump owns it.

 

Which this has already begun.

 

That language sure sounds latitude for the IRS to not enforce the penalty, sometimes called a "shared responsibility payment," and other ACA-related taxes. As currently implemented, ACA requires taxpayers to either have minimum essential health coverage, meet an exemption, or make a shared responsibility payment.

 

 

Reuters

Jan 22, 2017

The Trump administration may no longer enforce a rule requiring individual Americans to carry health insurance or pay a penalty if they do not, a senior White House official said on Sunday.

Speaking on ABC's This Week program, Kellyanne Conway, counselor to the president, said President Donald Trump "may stop enforcing the individual mandate."

 

 

LA,

 

I know there are some factions that are suggesting that is the way forward, wherever you heard it from, I've heard the same thing. All I can tell you that there is one common denominator between all those uniformed voices suggesting such a proposal, and that is that they are paid agitators and make a living off of constant opposition and unsound realism.