The Affordable Care Act II - Because Mr. Obama Loves You All

[IDBillzFan]

 

Canada, Germany, Japan, UK, France, ....we spend 18 percent of our GDP on HC - about $8000-$9000 per person per year...all these countries spend about 40-60 percent of that per person and cover everyone - from cradle to grave...

 

Has nothing to do with defense spending - as concieveably - they actually have more to spend on HC...

 

Look - take the blinders off - there are plenty of examples of better ways to do things...our system of paying for HC (burdening our private and public employers) and delivering (reimburse able insurance model) could not be worse... The method of doing better is examining "best practices" and adopting them...

 

One problem with your thinking is you justify single payer based on the fact that health insurance costs are a burden to private and public employers. The truth, however, is that if it was a burden, it was a burden by choice to provide a benefit when hiring and retaining talent. It was no more a burden than offering a cafeteria, or gym membership, or Costo membership. It was considered the cost of doing business to retain good help, and was factored in to your company's cost for whatever product or services they sell.

 

So please spare us with the "We're from the government and want to lessen your burden" crap because only far left nutbags buy that story.

 

The other problem with your thinking is you say Canada, Germany, etc. all have better health care than the US, but what is it that defines "better health care?" Have you talked to everyone Canada? Are you aware of how many Canadians come to the US for health care because their medical profession is so backed up and disorganized?

 

Did you know that the average Canadian has to wait up to almost three months before they can get an MRI? The average wait for hip replacement? Six months. Is that your idea of "better health care?" If you thought you were facing a horrible illness, and were in constant pain and needed help, tell me how happy you'd be if you first had to wait three months for an MRI.

 

You're selling bunk. The only people who think everyone has it better than the US are people who are never, ever, ever satisfied until they can have the government run everything for everyone...because that's the only way you extreme leftists no how to think.

[Tiberius]

One problem with your thinking is you justify single payer based on the fact that health insurance costs are a burden to private and public employers. The truth, however, is that if it was a burden, it was a burden by choice to provide a benefit when hiring and retaining talent. It was no more a burden than offering a cafeteria, or gym membership, or Costo membership. It was considered the cost of doing business to retain good help, and was factored in to your company's cost for whatever product or services they sell.

So please spare us with the "We're from the government and want to lessen your burden" crap because only far left nutbags buy that story.

The other problem with your thinking is you say Canada, Germany, etc. all have better health care than the US, but what is it that defines "better health care?" Have you talked to everyone Canada? Are you aware of how many Canadians come to the US for health care because their medical profession is so backed up and disorganized?

Did you know that the average Canadian has to wait up to almost three months before they can get an MRI? The average wait for hip replacement? Six months. Is that your idea of "better health care?" If you thought you were facing a horrible illness, and were in constant pain and needed help, tell me how happy you'd be if you first had to wait three months for an MRI.

 

You're selling bunk. The only people who think everyone has it better than the US are people who are never, ever, ever satisfied until they can have the government run everything for everyone...because that's the only way you extreme leftists no how to think.

Lol, repeating tired old propaganda points and other nonsense doesn't change the fact we pay more and get less than other countries. And if Canada is so bad, or any of the other countries they would get rid of it, but their voters would never let the Conservatives take away their health care. Just like our vets would never give up their socialized medicine

[Azalin]

 

I dunno. I just read the headline and shook my head.

 

Later I might put a gyroscope in the freezer, and see if the spin axis precesses any differently.

 

You may as well toss it into the oven afterward to see if it has the opposite effect.

[TH3]

 

One problem with your thinking is you justify single payer based on the fact that health insurance costs are a burden to private and public employers. The truth, however, is that if it was a burden, it was a burden by choice to provide a benefit when hiring and retaining talent. It was no more a burden than offering a cafeteria, or gym membership, or Costo membership. It was considered the cost of doing business to retain good help, and was factored in to your company's cost for whatever product or services they sell.

 

So please spare us with the "We're from the government and want to lessen your burden" crap because only far left nutbags buy that story.

 

The other problem with your thinking is you say Canada, Germany, etc. all have better health care than the US, but what is it that defines "better health care?" Have you talked to everyone Canada? Are you aware of how many Canadians come to the US for health care because their medical profession is so backed up and disorganized?

 

Did you know that the average Canadian has to wait up to almost three months before they can get an MRI? The average wait for hip replacement? Six months. Is that your idea of "better health care?" If you thought you were facing a horrible illness, and were in constant pain and needed help, tell me how happy you'd be if you first had to wait three months for an MRI.

 

You're selling bunk. The only people who think everyone has it better than the US are people who are never, ever, ever satisfied until they can have the government run everything for everyone...because that's the only way you extreme leftists no how to think.

 

Spare me the Canadian anecdotes - look at metrics - the US does not stack up well at all in terms of price and preface compared to every other industrialized nation - and learn some economics:

 

We pay 2X what other countries pay - that is a drag on our economy and a burden to our global competitiveness. That capital could be used elsewhere more efficiently - maybe you wife is a pharm rep - maybe - I don't know.

 

If you are a business and you are paying 2x for a component that your competitors use also - you would be looking for better sourcing of that component.

 

The provision of HC by employers is not a choice - it is law - dictated by the government.

 

As I have explained elsewhere - including the cost of HC internally in the COGS as opposed to getting at the point of sale as a GST makes our home built products and services bear a cost that imported goods don't.

 

Single payer plans have the advantage of actuarial theory - spreading the cost/risk that smaller and single buyers can't - and as well offering buying power..

 

I have both served public office and owned companies - if either could get rid of HC - they would in a second.

 

Selling bunk - how?. The proof is out there - check EVERY OTHER INDUSTRIALZED NATION and show me who the US beats in price and performance ......

[Nanker]

nope never heard it used before. my suspicion is that it's a phrase used by policy wonks and industry types. never heard it in a lecture or clinical conversation. seems awkward and counterintuitive..but whatever...

excess dollars means the huge number of dollars over and above what single payer countries pay for the same or similar (and equally efficacious drugs). it's billions.

 

I'd rather those billions be directed to drugs based on likely benefit to society as a whole rather than on what will produce a profit. loser drugs are part of the deal, whether the funding is from gov't or private sector. it just hurts less to lose money in this manner when it's being directed at the greater good than when it's being directed at the most profitanble productrs and ultimately, in lining big pharma execs and shareholders pockets.

 

it's a case study for why "for profit" medicine is inefficient. that American patients are funding the lions share of this wasteful r&d while already paying more per capita than any other country in the world for healthcare is especially galling

 

oh, and doctors are still paidf off by big pharma. go to the pro publica site and search pharma doctor payments. then search medicare doctor prescribing. there's an amazing correlation between those taking big pharma payments (most often in the form of "research" payments) and the percentage of brand name drugs prescribed. my personal experience anecdotally shows that big pharma payments and sleaziness are directly correlated among colleagues..

 

https://www.propublica.org/series/dollars-for-docs

You are clueless. Pharma pays MDs to do the clinical trials. There is also no cost to the patients in the trials. I told you the rest of the world shafts Americans by refusing to allow new drugs into their formularies except at the arbitrarily dictated prices. Of course it's billions of dollars - and the American consumer is paying for it.

 

You really are a birdbrain. So they didn't teach you ethics in that Med School in Grenada. No surprise.

[IDBillzFan]

 

Spare me the Canadian anecdotes - look at metrics - the US does not stack up well at all in terms of price and preface compared to every other industrialized nation - and learn some economics:

 

Selling bunk - how?. The proof is out there - check EVERY OTHER INDUSTRIALZED NATION and show me who the US beats in price and performance ......

 

Another problem with your thinking is you try to pass it off as 'metrics.'

 

Here's a metric for you. Either way...it makes it abundantly clear that every industrialized nation does NOT beat the US in performance just because you say it does

 

Oh, wait. Let me guess. The report put out by the Canadian Institute for Health Information is just another anecdote because it doesn't support your made-up view.

 

Give it up. We've seen what our government does for its vets. I'll take a pass, thank you.

Edited April 11, 2016 by LABillzFan

[DC Tom]

 

You may as well toss it into the oven afterward to see if it has the opposite effect.

 

And a charcoal grill. Have to test for not just heat, but heat AND carbon emissions.

You are clueless. Pharma pays MDs to do the clinical trials. There is also no cost to the patients in the trials. I told you the rest of the world shafts Americans by refusing to allow new drugs into their formularies except at the arbitrarily dictated prices. Of course it's billions of dollars - and the American consumer is paying for it.

 

You really are a birdbrain. So they didn't teach you ethics in that Med School in Grenada. No surprise.

 

Clinical trial costs are amortized into the cost of the drug. The consumer ends up paying for it.

 

Ultimately, the consumer ends up paying for everything. The "socialized medicine" fallacy is the belief that a system can be designed where the consumer doesn't pay for anything.

[birdog1960]

You are clueless. Pharma pays MDs to do the clinical trials. There is also no cost to the patients in the trials. I told you the rest of the world shafts Americans by refusing to allow new drugs into their formularies except at the arbitrarily dictated prices. Of course it's billions of dollars - and the American consumer is paying for it.

 

You really are a birdbrain. So they didn't teach you ethics in that Med School in Grenada. No surprise.

I've actually chaired the ethics committee in my hospital and have been a member for almost 20 years. ethics implies fairness and the effort to identify and do the right thing for everyone concerned. you don't seem familiar with any of those concepts.

[IDBillzFan]

 

The provision of HC by employers is not a choice - it is law - dictated by the government.

 

Almost forgot to point this one out to you as well; despite your again confusing health care and health insurance, let me remind you that prior to ACA, employers were NOT mandated to provide health insurance coverage to their employees.

 

You DID know that, didn't you?

[Keukasmallies]

Lol, repeating tired old propaganda points and other nonsense doesn't change the fact we pay more and get less than other countries. And if Canada is so bad, or any of the other countries they would get rid of it, but their voters would never let the Conservatives take away their health care. Just like our vets would never give up their socialized medicine

 

So the rich and famous from around the world come to the USA to get less care than is available in other countries? Children from all over the world are brought here for cutting edge procedures available nowhere else in the world. Our veterans receive socialized medicine?

 

You are so stupid, my teeth ache when I read what you write!

[3rdnlng]

 

He couldn't have posted if he wasn't.

 

meanwhile,

 

UNITEDHEALTH GROUP, nation's largest Health Insurer, MAKES GOOD ON THREAT TO PULL OUT OF OBAMACARE.

"It's been happening to me a lot the past week," doesn't mean it's happening now.

[Deranged Rhino]

"It's been happening to me a lot the past week," doesn't mean it's happening now.

 

I was signed in (and sober!). I'm sure it's something on my end if no one else is experiencing it. It just makes it more difficult to keep current in the threads so I was hoping for an easy fix.

Thanks to all. I'll sort it out.

[3rdnlng]

 

I was sure you were going to ask how I know about Alien Kush and Headband.

 

He's a writer in LA. What do you think?

Ah, a "head" writer, eh?

[Deranged Rhino]

In my office, hard at work:

 

 

[meazza]

 

Spare me the Canadian anecdotes - look at metrics - the US does not stack up well at all in terms of price and preface compared to every other industrialized nation - and learn some economics:

 

We pay 2X what other countries pay - that is a drag on our economy and a burden to our global competitiveness. That capital could be used elsewhere more efficiently - maybe you wife is a pharm rep - maybe - I don't know.

 

If you are a business and you are paying 2x for a component that your competitors use also - you would be looking for better sourcing of that component.

 

The provision of HC by employers is not a choice - it is law - dictated by the government.

 

As I have explained elsewhere - including the cost of HC internally in the COGS as opposed to getting at the point of sale as a GST makes our home built products and services bear a cost that imported goods don't.

 

Single payer plans have the advantage of actuarial theory - spreading the cost/risk that smaller and single buyers can't - and as well offering buying power..

 

I have both served public office and owned companies - if either could get rid of HC - they would in a second.

 

Selling bunk - how?. The proof is out there - check EVERY OTHER INDUSTRIALZED NATION and show me who the US beats in price and performance ......

 

LOL anecdotes.

 

 

You have a lot to learn my illiterate friend.

[unbillievable]

Every industrialized nation is trying to figure out how to get out of their awful single payer system while we're rushing to join them. You Liberals do realize that other countries are trying to figure out how to bring back private medical practices to fix their shortages right?

[birdog1960]

Every industrialized nation is trying to figure out how to get out of their awful single payer system while we're rushing to join them. You Liberals do realize that other countries are trying to figure out how to bring back private medical practices to fix their shortages right?

you do realize that there are very few private medical practices remaining in the us? most docs work for big health systems as employees who in turn work for giant insurance companies. in the end, we all work for giant insurance companies, even the "independent" docs.

 

and the giant insurance companies know all your intimate health details and decide what treatments, tests, physicians and hospitals you can utilize.

 

how is that better than the gov't doing it?

Edited April 12, 2016 by birdog1960

[DC Tom]

you do realize that there are very few private medical practices remaining in the us? most docs work for big health systems as employees who in turn work for giant insurance companies. in the end, we all work for giant insurance companies, even the "independent" docs.

Which is still "private."

[birdog1960]

Which is still "private."

private practice has classically been defined otherwise. it's facing almost certain extinction from the big insurers.

 

yes, they're private except that they contract with the gov't thru medicare and medicaid (why, i don't have a clue).

 

the real point is that these companies are no more trustworthy than the gov't and don't answer in any way to the public except thru the free market which doesn't exist in healthcare. i'd argue that the big insurers are less desirable healthcare puppet masters ([for both patients and doctors) than elected officials.

 

this is why republican cardiologists are calling for single payer.

Edited April 12, 2016 by birdog1960

[B-Large]

you do realize that there are very few private medical practices remaining in the us? most docs work for big health systems as employees who in turn work for giant insurance companies. in the end, we all work for giant insurance companies, even the "independent" docs.

 

and the giant insurance companies know all your intimate health details and decide what treatments, tests, physicians and hospitals you can utilize.

 

how is that better than the gov't doing it?

I just interviewed a couple from St Louis today that is closing their concierge practice. What people miss is that even concierge practices bill insurance including Medicare, and cannot stay open even with 10k -20k annual memberships. Doctors expect to make 250-300k in primary care and have small panels of patients (under 2,000)- but in reality, the economics don't work and working 7-9 days a week gets old fast.

 

To be honest, the ACA plans are consistent with the reality of Heathcare financing. Premiums will be expensive and deductibles will be high, our system is outrageously expensive, poorly utilized, communicates poorly, and we spend far too much on end of like care. I have a Medicaid patients in his late 70's (long story how he got to me to manage), but he's been at our hospital 3 weeks and had 200k worth of surgeries. If we intend to continue to treat everything until death, we'll need to rethink how much of our national and personal budgets are allocated to Healthcare.

 

Everybody wants to make money in the game, everybody wants extensive care until they croak and Americans in my experience don't want to personally pay for it.... That's a powder keg right there.