birdog1960 Posted April 8, 2016 Share Posted April 8, 2016 (edited) Which was the whole point of Obamacare. !@#$ everything up so badly that people are screaming for single payor. Even me. yes, I believe some, including me, saw it as a Trojan horse. I think most saw it as the only doable "compromise" (read passable bill) at the time. the only realistic way to achieve near universal coverage, reduced cost and simultaneous improved quality is single payor. was then and is now. Edited April 8, 2016 by birdog1960 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted April 8, 2016 Share Posted April 8, 2016 Go !@#$ youself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TH3 Posted April 8, 2016 Share Posted April 8, 2016 Which is what I said from the start: the ACA is so !@#$ed up that even socialized medicine looks good in comparison. Actually we pretty much have the worst model out there....other than Bernie - I am not sure if anyone has put forward any sketch of a different plan....but abortion and gays and cross-dressers and border walls on the other hand.... yes, I believe some, including me, saw it as a Trojan horse. I think most saw it as the only doable "compromise" (read passable bill) at the time. the only realistic way to achieve near universal coverage, reduced cost and simultaneous improved quality is single payor. was then and is now. THIS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted April 8, 2016 Share Posted April 8, 2016 Actually we pretty much have the worst model out there....other than Bernie - I am not sure if anyone has put forward any sketch of a different plan....but abortion and gays and cross-dressers and border walls on the other hand... Oh, please. Stop with the childish nonsense. You've been shown alternate plans and, as is typical for non-thinking SoProg, you're stock answer has been, "That's no plan!!!" And to be clear, for every moment you pop off about abortion and gays, the right can pop off about how important your side finds it to force property owners to rent to their apartments to felons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted April 8, 2016 Share Posted April 8, 2016 Go !@#$ youself. Nanker! Now you apologize for this rude and thoughtless comment! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted April 8, 2016 Share Posted April 8, 2016 NFW. It's intentionally rude and full of lots of thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted April 8, 2016 Share Posted April 8, 2016 NFW. It's intentionally rude and full of lots of thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbillievable Posted April 8, 2016 Share Posted April 8, 2016 (edited) Oh, please. Stop with the childish nonsense. You've been shown alternate plans and, as is typical for non-thinking SoProg, you're stock answer has been, "That's no plan!!!" And to be clear, for every moment you pop off about abortion and gays, the right can pop off about how important your side finds it to force property owners to rent to their apartments to felons. To be fair, you have to look at their definition of "plan." To a liberal, a plan has to include the government creating an agency to tackle the problem. I've had this conversation with many liberals who say the Republicans offer "no solutions." I tell them what the right wants to do, and they're reply is always: that's not going to do anything because corporations are evil! Only way to fix the problem is to have government take over! So what plan did the Repbulicans propose that include a government takeover... none! Edited April 8, 2016 by unbillievable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted April 8, 2016 Share Posted April 8, 2016 Actually we pretty much have the worst model out there....other than Bernie - I am not sure if anyone has put forward any sketch of a different plan....but abortion and gays and cross-dressers and border walls on the other hand.... a recent true story to illustrate your point: I prescribed insulin for a patient recently to, ya know, keep him alive. one of the big corporate insurers required such a high copay that the patient couldn't afford it (somewhere around $150/month). so he called them and their rep advised him to have me file the papers for compassionate need from the drug company so that he could get his insulin for free. in effect, the big insurer dumped on the drug company by shirking their responsibility to pay for a drug required to maintain life. on the same note, i'm sick and tired of going to fund raisers for cancer patients so they can afford to live. firstly, they often still don't get enough help to afford to survive. second, it's immoral and we should all be profoundly shamed. but you put the power to decide peoples fate in the hands of c level execs that answer to shareholders and this is what you should expect.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keepthefaith Posted April 8, 2016 Share Posted April 8, 2016 To be fair, you have to look at their definition of "plan." To a liberal, a plan has to include the government creating an agency to tackle the problem. I've had this conversation with many liberals who say the Republicans offer "no solutions." I tell them what the right wants to do, and they're reply is always: that's not going to do anything because corporations are evil! Only way to fix the problem is to have government take over! So what plan did the Repbulicans propose that include a government takeover... none! At the time the ACA was being debated in the house, Republicans put forth a plan (it was merely about 400 pages). The media, however, continued to report that Republicans were obstructing and wanted people dying without coverage so their plan was virtually unknown. That and nobody read it because even at 400 pages is too !@#$ing long. http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2013/08/28/seriously-the-republicans-have-no-health-plan/#39087f6822fc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted April 8, 2016 Share Posted April 8, 2016 yes, I believe some, including me, saw it as a Trojan horse. I think most saw it as the only doable "compromise" (read passable bill) at the time. the only realistic way to achieve near universal coverage, reduced cost and simultaneous improved quality is single payor. was then and is now. Of course the former supporters of the ACA who were all defending it tooth and nail years back despite the constant barrage of analysis that showed it was destined to be a cluster !@#$ are now all walking back away from it and now wanting single payor. Just like many said the ACA wouldn't work, either would single payor here in the U.S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted April 8, 2016 Share Posted April 8, 2016 Of course the former supporters of the ACA who were all defending it tooth and nail years back despite the constant barrage of analysis that showed it was destined to be a cluster !@#$ are now all walking back away from it and now wanting single payor. Just like many said the ACA wouldn't work, either would single payor here in the U.S not everyone. my Trojan horse take is documented on this site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted April 8, 2016 Share Posted April 8, 2016 Health reform should first focus on one issue, how to drive down medical costs. Get that in order and things get a whole lot better. A good place to start would be making all medical services/prices fully transparent. People should be able to go online and see what every hospital/medical provider is charging for every procedure/diagnostic testing/service. not everyone. my Trojan horse take is documented on this site. You thought it was a step in the right direction, I remember having these conversations with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbillievable Posted April 8, 2016 Share Posted April 8, 2016 not everyone. my Trojan horse take is documented on this site. Every conservative you can find in 2008 was yelling about Obamacare being designed to be so awful, that the people would demand single payer. Not surprisingly, the liberals are barely catching on to that fact now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted April 8, 2016 Share Posted April 8, 2016 not everyone. my Trojan horse take is documented on this site. That it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted April 8, 2016 Share Posted April 8, 2016 Health reform should first focus on one issue, how to drive down medical costs. Get that in order and things get a whole lot better. A good place to start would be making all medical services/prices fully transparent. People should be able to go online and see what every hospital/medical provider is charging for every procedure/diagnostic testing/service. Agreed. Though you can't drive down medical costs without massive reform in both the insurance and pharmaceutical industries. And considering those are two of the most powerful and influential lobbies in politics, the chances of that happening are slim to none unless you reform campaign finance first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted April 8, 2016 Share Posted April 8, 2016 Actually we pretty much have the worst model out there....other than Bernie - I am not sure if anyone has put forward any sketch of a different plan....but abortion and gays and cross-dressers and border walls on the other hand.... THIS You're a !@#$ing idiot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted April 8, 2016 Share Posted April 8, 2016 Agreed. Though you can't drive down medical costs without massive reform in both the insurance and pharmaceutical industries. And considering those are two of the most powerful and influential lobbies in politics, the chances of that happening are slim to none unless you reform campaign finance first. Yes you can. You drive the prices down the same way you do in every other industry. By letting the consumer price shop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted April 8, 2016 Share Posted April 8, 2016 Health reform should first focus on one issue, how to drive down medical costs. Get that in order and things get a whole lot better. A good place to start would be making all medical services/prices fully transparent. People should be able to go online and see what every hospital/medical provider is charging for every procedure/diagnostic testing/service. except that doesn't work. many systems charge $50 or so for screening heart CT scans. sounds cheap right? but they do it for the expensive catheterizations, stress tests, echocardiograms, bypass surgeries and cancer work ups fopr incidentally found abnormalities that generate big bucks. where you start is usually not where you finish in healthcare. and you usually finish a whole lot poorer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted April 8, 2016 Share Posted April 8, 2016 Yes you can. You drive the prices down the same way you do in every other industry. By letting the consumer price shop. Which those lobbies will never allow unless you get their influence out of politics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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