End Of Game Crazy Lateral Play Question #1

[ICanSleepWhenI'mDead]

You've all seen the play I'm talking about - - last play of the game, down by anywhere from 4-8 points, too far away for a Hail Mary pass into the end zone.

 

My question:

 

Can you replace the usual 5 offensive linemen for this play with some combination of backup RBs, your backup QB, and maybe a CB/return man or two at the line of scrimmage? You're not really gonna rely on any kind of blocking scheme anyway, and just hope that the totally random, wild nature of the ball movement gets the defenders out of position. And the defense rarely rushes very many guys at the QB, anyway. So why not get a larger number of effective runners/ball handlers on the field, and maybe even a second thrower that the defense might not expect?

 

Is there some rule that would prevent this kind of personnel package for the play?

[Jauronimo]

What happens if the defense sees your smurf package and rushes 6?

[ICanSleepWhenI'mDead]

What happens if the defense sees your smurf package and rushes 6?

I doubt that the defense would adjust that quickly, but if they did, I'd be a happy camper. I'd train my guys to run some version of a screen pass, and then i'd have 10 effective runners/ball handlers taking on just 5 defenders down field. Tell me that's got a worse chance of scoring than what you usually see on crazy lateral plays.

[eSJayDee]

You obviously have to maintain a "std" formation, ie 7 men on the line, the outside 2 of which are eligible rcvrs, the interior 5 not.

Presumably, you are able to "report as ineligible", making eligible #s ineligible, much like when you line an extra linemen up in an eligible position, & in fact if you're able to do this, obviously, you'd have to.

(50-79 and 90-99 are ineligible #s; 1-49 & 80-89 are eligible. AFAIK, 0 & 00 (sorry Jim Otto) are no longer valid #s at all.)

[ICanSleepWhenI'mDead]

The smurfs (I prefer to call them runners/ballhandlers) on the line wouldn't be eligible to catch a forward pass, but so what? Everybody's eligible to catch and run with a lateral - - just make sure that the only forward pass goes to an eligible receiver, and let the mayhem commence.

 

Edit: Anybody actually know for sure if a smurf could report as "ineligible" and take one of the 5 interior line spots for the play?

Edited January 7, 2014 by ICanSleepWhenI'mDead

[thebandit27]

The smurfs (I prefer to call them runners/ballhandlers) on the line wouldn't be eligible to catch a forward pass, but so what? Everybody's eligible to catch and run with a lateral - - just make sure that the only forward pass goes to an eligible receiver, and let the mayhem commence.

 

Edit: Anybody actually know for sure if a smurf could report as "ineligible" and take one of the 5 interior line spots for the play?

 

Yes, per section 3 of the rules:

 

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=5&ved=0CCQQFjAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fstatic.nfl.com%2Fstatic%2Fcontent%2Fpublic%2Fimage%2Frulebook%2Fpdfs%2F8_Rule5_Players_Subs_Equip_GeneralRules.pdf&ei=4z7MUrCZFrTesASw5YCQDQ&usg=AFQjCNFhsPxKmUU8kPuxkT6V8yyCTNBTKA

[zow2]

I still think a hail mary pass into a group of receivers and DB's give a team a better chance to succeed than these crazy laterals all over the field. that just never works and often times the team goes backwards and loses the ball. At least heaving it downfield you can get a perfect deflection or tip and then run it in. I hate all the laterals. just dumb,

[4merper4mer]

Would Crossman be in charge of this?

[fridge]

I still think a hail mary pass into a group of receivers and DB's give a team a better chance to succeed than these crazy laterals all over the field. that just never works and often times the team goes backwards and loses the ball. At least heaving it downfield you can get a perfect deflection or tip and then run it in. I hate all the laterals. just dumb,

 

Right, but sometimes you have the ball on your 20.

[ICanSleepWhenI'mDead]

Yes, per section 3 of the rules:

 

http://www.google.co...xkT6V8yyCTNBTKA

Thanks. looks like it's pretty clear that we could put 5 smurfs on the interior line, as long as they all reported "ineligible" before the play. The Referee then has to inform the defense, but my guess is at least the first time we did it, the defense still wouldn't be prepared for it.

 

I still think a hail mary pass into a group of receivers and DB's give a team a better chance to succeed than these crazy laterals all over the field. that just never works and often times the team goes backwards and loses the ball. At least heaving it downfield you can get a perfect deflection or tip and then run it in. I hate all the laterals. just dumb,

With that kind of inside-the-box thinking, you could be a head coach in the NFL. Well, maybe not for the Eagles.

[Jauronimo]

I doubt that the defense would adjust that quickly, but if they did, I'd be a happy camper. I'd train my guys to run some version of a screen pass, and then i'd have 10 effective runners/ball handlers taking on just 5 defenders down field. Tell me that's got a worse chance of scoring than what you usually see on crazy lateral plays.

Isn't a screen pass designed to get your OL up field to block? What good is a screen pass without effective blockers? I don't think the limiting factor in the success of the hook and ladder or other crazy lateral scheme is the amount of worthy ball carriers.

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

This is a great idea.

 

would you even need to report as ineligible?

[fridge]

Isn't a screen pass designed to get your OL up field to block? What good is a screen pass without effective blockers? I don't think the limiting factor in the success of the hook and ladder or other crazy lateral scheme is the amount of worthy ball carriers.

 

Yeah, but what if you changed the play completely.

 

Let's say you line up in a traditional spread formation with 4 WRs and a HB in the backfield. Assuming it's the last play of the game, they may only rush 3. Now with your 7 "smurfs", you can just toss it to your HB, who can immediately send it to one of the "smurfs", provided they are running backwards initially and to designated spots.

 

It's unlikely that their rush of 3 will have any effect, if the ball changes hands immediately with a designated play of this sort.

[ICanSleepWhenI'mDead]

Isn't a screen pass designed to get your OL up field to block? What good is a screen pass without effective blockers? I don't think the limiting factor in the success of the hook and ladder or other crazy lateral scheme is the amount of worthy ball carriers.

More fundamentally, it's designed to give you a numbers advantage by stranding some defenders "behind" the play. If you have a normal personnel package on the field, you capitalize on the numbers advantage with big guys as blockers, because a "normal" personnel package limits your ability to capitalize on it any other way. Blocking is all the big, strong but slow guys with bad hands are good for.

 

The "smurf linemen" package would let you capitalize on it in a different way. It would also throw in an element of surprise that might confuse the defense, which is exactly what you want on a crazy lateral end of game play.

 

But as I mentioned above, I think it's highly unlikely that the defense rushes 6 at the QB on the play. That's the exact opposite of what they are usually trained to do in the crazy lateral play situation.

Edited January 7, 2014 by ICanSleepWhenI'mDead

[bills_fan_in_raleigh]

Sounds like we just found our end of the game play coordinator. It would show the creative nature of the Bills to create this unique position revolutionizing pro football.

[Jauronimo]

Lets approach this idea from a new angle. Last play defense is pretty much going to involve dropping as many people back into coverage as possible, essentially stacking the end zone to defend the hail mary. If the play turns out to be a shorter pass, then the defense moves up not unlike a kickoff. If the defenders stay in their lanes and take the right angles, the speed of the ball carrier becomes pretty much irrelevant. Which is why on kick returns you have blocking. You need to open holes.

 

It would be interesting to see the smurf package in action but I think the limiting factor is lanes to run through rather than shifty ball carriers.

[Bronc24]

Here's an idea....let's field a squib kick and throw a (debatable) lateral to a fast guy on the sideline as we set up a wall to enable us to take it to the house and win the game! Wait.....

 

Too soon?

Edited January 8, 2014 by Bronc24

[NoSaint]

 

Isn't a screen pass designed to get your OL up field to block? What good is a screen pass without effective blockers? I don't think the limiting factor in the success of the hook and ladder or other crazy lateral scheme is the amount of worthy ball carriers.

 

i guess the flipside is, how effective are your olineman as blockers for the guys 60 yards downfield. in this scenario youd be weighing a chip on a Dlineman and then hustling down to block safeties and corners (and potentially take a lateral) vs a strong initial block in the first 10-20 yards.

 

Lets approach this idea from a new angle. Last play defense is pretty much going to involve dropping as many people back into coverage as possible, essentially stacking the end zone to defend the hail mary. If the play turns out to be a shorter pass, then the defense moves up not unlike a kickoff. If the defenders stay in their lanes and take the right angles, the speed of the ball carrier becomes pretty much irrelevant. Which is why on kick returns you have blocking. You need to open holes.

 

It would be interesting to see the smurf package in action but I think the limiting factor is lanes to run through rather than shifty ball carriers.

 

i guess maybe instead of a "smurf package" in the truest sense, maybe more along the lines of TEs, and LBs who are more athletic but can block?

 

not advocating as much as floating out the logistics of the idea

[ICanSleepWhenI'mDead]

Lets approach this idea from a new angle. Last play defense is pretty much going to involve dropping as many people back into coverage as possible, essentially stacking the end zone to defend the hail mary. If the play turns out to be a shorter pass, then the defense moves up not unlike a kickoff. If the defenders stay in their lanes and take the right angles, the speed of the ball carrier becomes pretty much irrelevant. Which is why on kick returns you have blocking. You need to open holes.

 

It would be interesting to see the smurf package in action but I think the limiting factor is lanes to run through rather than shifty ball carriers.

I think the Hail Mary pass is always going to be a better option if you are close enough for the QB to get the ball into the end zone (or to say the 5 yard line for 1 tip to a deeper WR). So I'd only use the "smurf package" if the last play started from inside my own 35 or so, depending on my QB's arm strength.

 

Seems like your kick-off coverage analogy is a good one, at least for the start of the play. I certainly agree that the defense will typically drop most defenders deep in coverage, so i guess one question for me is - - how do the defenders currently react, when they expect that a short pass will result in the "crazy lateral" scramble, and the offense has 5 offensive linemen involved in the scramble?

 

i can't say that I've ever focused on the shape of the defense moving forward after the short pass starts the play - - not sure if that's because of my own focus or because the TV camera man typically zooms in on the ball carrier for closeups of the crazy laterals. It would be interesting to watch "all 22" video to see if the defense really does stay in lanes moving forward.

 

So for the sake of argument, let's assume the defense actually has what amounts to lane assignments, and think about how to attack it. First thing I'd do is try to scramble up the defenders at the start of the play to get them out of their lanes. I'd have Easley, 3 other WR and McKelvin report as ineligible and put them on the interior OL. I'd put the extra smurfs (some combo of my RBs, backup QB, and my most dangerous WR) in eligible receiver positions. Maybe I get lucky and some defender who usually focuses on guys wearing jerseys with a number in the 80's gets confused and continues to focus on an interior line WR, even though that WR can't legally catch a forward pass.

 

Then I'd flood all of the smurf eligible receivers, including my most dangerous real WR, deep to one side of the field. Odds are they are gonna drag most of the defenders with them to that side.

 

To maximize confusion, I also send the 3 interior line WR downfield to the same side of the field as the eligible smurfs. I ain't throwin' a forward pass on this play, but the defenders don't know that, and if they get confused about who's potentially eligible to catch a pass and who's not maybe i can pull a couple more of the defenders to that side of the field.

 

At this point, with luck, all hell has broken out, the other team's special teams coach is screaming like a madman (it would help if the other team has no timeouts left at the start of the play), and I've done my best to scramble up the defenders' lane assignments.

 

Starting QB rolls out to the opposite side of the field from where just about everybody else went, and looks downfield like he wants to pass, even though he can't throw it forward because 3 of his interior line guys are downfield. Easley and McKelvin circle back where they can catch a lateral. QB laterals to preferably McKelvin and mayhem ensues against scrambled lane assignments.

 

If you prefer blocking to causing confusion, substitute the TEs and a FB for the 3 WRs on the interior line, and keep them back to block for McKelvin/Easley when the QB makes the first lateral (and to give the QB time to let the play develop a bit before he pitches it).

 

I guess my overall point is that if your field position is too poor to chuck it to within 5 yards of the end zone, your standard offensive personnel package with 5 big slow OL guys with bad hands isn't the best choice. There are lots of ways you could customize your personnel package for a final play that would be an improvement. At a bare minimum, have McKelvin report as ineligible and put him on the interior line. Seems like a no brainer to get your best open field runner on the field for a scramble play.

 

How many times does the crazy lateral scramble end when somebody laterals the ball to a big, slow OL guy who either drops it or lumbers forward and gets tackled because he doesn't know what to do with it and can't avoid anybody?

[bbb]

I would like to know why the last guy who gets tackled isn't usually more eager to pitch it back again. It seems like it works for about 20 yards, then that last guy just gets tackled!