DrDawkinstein Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Since you choose to make the sweeping general statement that we can't win there, I presume you mean that Stevie fumbled because we played north of the border. I choose to not buy into that logic, because it's clear to me that that fumble was pivotal to the outcome of that game. Any other analysis is driven by emotion rather than logic. That's not it at all, actually. And why would it be since that made up point makes no sense? Consider this... In the Atlanta game, the Bills quickly jump out to a 14-0 lead with a couple of big Defensive stops. Now, if that game is at the Ralph, then that stadium is ROCKIN and the crowd noise makes it next to impossible for Atlanta to get a drive going. But what happens in Toronto? Atlanta gets the ball back to a silent crowd which allows them to put a couple of drives together, and it's 17-17 at half. Sure, the Bills D needed to make a stop, but maybe we get a jump from an OL who can't hear the count and it kills a drive. There are plenty of ways that homefield advantage can come into play. Especially in a game that was so close it went to overtime. I agree completely, but surely Bills fans have some responsibility in this, no? Why don't more Bills fans buy those tickets and MAKE it a home game if it's so important? Here's what I hear from Bills fans: - win more games - acquire high priced free agents and big name coaches - keep ticket prices among the lowest in the league - don't worry about expanding your market, just keep the status quo at all cost (I.e., just keep playing in my backyard) - no, I won't go to Toronto to support my team - the next owner BETTER keep the team here, because we're the best fans in the NFL. Why allow the NFL into BULLYING Bills fans into tripling the cost of a game (with travel, etc)? Toronto fans have already said the tickets are too expensive for them to go, and they live right there! It was a bad idea and a failure of a marketing ploy. Time to cut the losses (pun intended), and bring the games home. The entire thing was the largest insult to Bills fans in Buffalo that the team could have come up with. The Bills should be ashamed of the way they've treated the home crowd. (And keep in mind, I believe NFL fans in general have a horrible entitlement attitude, but this was ridiculous) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marauderswr80 Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Great point DrD! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillnutinHouston Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 That's not it at all, actually. And why would it be since that made up point makes no sense. Silly me, I thought if Stevie didn't fumble we would have won. Consider this... In the Atlanta game, the Bills quickly jump out to a 14-0 lead with a couple of big Defensive stops. Now, if that game is at the Ralph, then that stadium is ROCKIN and the crowd noise makes it next to impossible for Atlanta to get a drive going. But what happens in Toronto? Atlanta gets the ball back to a silent crowd which allows them to put a couple of drives together, and it's 17-17 at half. Exactly why it would be nice for Bills fans to pack the Rogers Center. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Silly me, I thought if Stevie didn't fumble we would have won. Now youre just being purposely obtuse. No one has said playing in Toronto caused Stevie to fumble except you. The point is, if that game is played at home, it takes a different path from the beginning, and there might not be a need for Stevie to make a catch at the end of the game. After the first 2 possessions for both teams, the Bills had 14 points and the Falcons had -5 total yards. The defense was flying. Crowd noise should have been at a maximum. Yet, when Atlanta got the ball back, you could hear a pin drop, and it was a nice, friendly environment to work in. Ryan could easily make any blocking calls/adjustments, snap count was crystal clear, etc. The whole game changes at the Ralph. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillnutinHouston Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Why allow the NFL into BULLYING Bills fans into tripling the cost of a game (with travel, etc)? Why should the Bills be perennially stuck with bargain basement ticket prices with no opportunity to expand revenues? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marauderswr80 Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Toronto crowds suck! End if story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Why should the Bills be perennially stuck with bargain basement ticket prices with no opportunity to expand revenues? A quality product trumps all the gimmicks you can come up with, Russ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillnutinHouston Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Now youre just being purposely obtuse. No one has said playing in Toronto caused Stevie to fumble except you. The point is, if that game is played at home, it takes a different path from the beginning, and there might not be a need for Stevie to make a catch at the end of the game. After the first 2 possessions for both teams, the Bills had 14 points and the Falcons had -5 total yards. The defense was flying. Crowd noise should have been at a maximum. Yet, when Atlanta got the ball back, you could hear a pin drop, and it was a nice, friendly environment to work in. Ryan could easily make any blocking calls/adjustments, snap count was crystal clear, etc. The whole game changes at the Ralph. If the game was played in Buffalo, this, that, and the other thing MIGHT have happened. Is that not speculative? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 (edited) If the game was played in Buffalo, this, that, and the other thing MIGHT have happened. Is that not speculative? Of course it is. But it makes way more rational sense than how you were reading the point. Edited January 6, 2014 by DrDareustein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillnutinHouston Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 A quality product trumps all the gimmicks you can come up with, Russ. Tell that to the people who couldn't watch the Greatest Comeback because the game was blacked out. Of course it is. But it makes way more rational sense than how you were reading the point. We each have our own opinions on that. Toronto crowds suck! End if story. If it bothers you so much, change it. "See the Toronto crowd, BE the Toronto crowd." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Day 10 Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 (edited) I dont want to go to Toronto. The atmosphere sucks There is no tailgating/pregame atmosphere. 4PM games with traffic promises to see me arrive back at home late on a work night after (odds are) seeing the Bills lose at a game that the experience is really not fun The entire thing only symbolizes the Bills' one day relocation to Toronto. I am not going to support, enable, or be a part of that. I am happy in its failures and the fact that they cant sell tickets. The NFL and Rogers would love (and one day planned on) the money shot of a dome full of rabid NFL fans in another country ready to obtain a team. Ralph already gets his lump sump money (which is somewhere between 1 and 2 times the normal game-take at the Ralph, dunno when revenue sharing is cut into that). Let's be honest and that is what it is about for the Bills and not Regionalization. As a fan and Erie County tax payer, the whole series is a kick in the nads Edited January 6, 2014 by May Day 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 I agree completely, but surely Bills fans have some responsibility in this, no? Why don't more Bills fans buy those tickets and MAKE it a home game if it's so important? Here's what I hear from Bills fans: - win more games - acquire high priced free agents and big name coaches - keep ticket prices among the lowest in the league - don't worry about expanding your market, just keep the status quo at all cost (I.e., just keep playing in my backyard) - no, I won't go to Toronto to support my team - the next owner BETTER keep the team here, because we're the best fans in the NFL. Not disagreeing with your comments, just noting a certain irony that Houston wouldn't sell out the dome in the Glanville/Pardee era unless Pittsburgh or the Pokes were in town w/out Randall's buying the last few hundred / several thousand seats and that was in the midst of a 6-7 year playoff run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Day 10 Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 I have said it in countless threads, but it is completely different times now than 20 years ago. Internet sales and resales. The Bills make a run, get a home playoff game or 2, look promising, and they get into the "waiting list" category pretty quickly. I would put money on it. Once that gets crossed over, the team's ticket sales are secure for long-term unless they go through a long stretch of terrible play (such as the Sabres). They can even afford a few off years, as long as they make the tickets profitable for fans to resell certain games every so often. Then that is when the Bills would inch ticket prices up closer and closer to the re-sale value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xsoldier54 Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 I don't think Toronto was, is, or is going to be the problem with winning. If you don't think the Bills have a better chance of winning a game at the Ralph than at the Rogers Centre, then you are delusional. The Atlanta game was a prime example of a game where the Bills would have had home field advantage in the cold over a dome team. Instead what did we do? We moved the game to a dome with a crowd that is rooting for the visitors. I agree the TO series has little to do with winning in general, but the games that are played in Toronto might as well just be marked down as losses. This is not a "home" game it is a road game and virtually every NFL team plays better at home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Day 10 Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 If Super Bowl XXV was played in Buffalo it wouldnt have mattered. Norwood would still have missed the FG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Just fly a Toronto Argonaut flag alongside the Bills flag on one Sunday a year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsBytheBay Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 (edited) Now youre just being purposely obtuse. No one has said playing in Toronto caused Stevie to fumble except you. The point is, if that game is played at home, it takes a different path from the beginning, and there might not be a need for Stevie to make a catch at the end of the game. After the first 2 possessions for both teams, the Bills had 14 points and the Falcons had -5 total yards. The defense was flying. Crowd noise should have been at a maximum. Yet, when Atlanta got the ball back, you could hear a pin drop, and it was a nice, friendly environment to work in. Ryan could easily make any blocking calls/adjustments, snap count was crystal clear, etc. The whole game changes at the Ralph. by you're own logic, the game could have been much worse if it was a t home too. It's not like were a lock to win at home. Edited January 6, 2014 by JaxBills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smiley Dear Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 The OP is right. The proper way to regionalize the Bills to Toronto is to market the Ralph's game day experience. The Bills have a hard time selling the premium seats and the luxury suites and that's precisely what they should market to Canadian business owners. Why not charter charter buses that leave TO on on gameday at 9am and arrive at the Ralph by 11. If the Bulls would have done this in the early 90's, I believe sales would have been high. Obviously winning make it all easier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsBytheBay Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 If you don't think the Bills have a better chance of winning a game at the Ralph than at the Rogers Centre, then you are delusional. The Atlanta game was a prime example of a game where the Bills would have had home field advantage in the cold over a dome team. Instead what did we do? We moved the game to a dome with a crowd that is rooting for the visitors. I agree the TO series has little to do with winning in general, but the games that are played in Toronto might as well just be marked down as losses. This is not a "home" game it is a road game and virtually every NFL team plays better at home. look, it sucks. I agree. But it's not why we lost. You can huff and puff about it all you want. We had two chances to win that game. We didn't. Drops are drops. When the bills move, you're going to have to ask, did they do enough to stay? What could they have done to become more viable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 by you're own logic, the game could have been much worse if it was a t home too. It's not like were a lock to win at home. Sure, but I'll take a loss at the Ralph over a loss in that horrible Toronto environment. Neither are great, but at least the FO is putting them team in the best spot to have a chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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