DrDawkinstein Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 I think we all agree that it sucks playing in Toronto. But I don't think many people are willing to admit why they need to. The Bills under new ownership may, or may not want to keep the team in buffalo. All I see is Russ Brandon trying to make it more attractive to stay to new ownership. Me personally will have to choose a new team if they move. I don't want to. As for the players not liking it: if the team goes away, their not out of the job. Why should they care about the viability of the team. They can just play elsewhere. The fans of the team on the other hand should care. But lets vilify all efforts to keep the team in buffalo. I understand and agree with your post as it pertains to why the Bills decided to do the Toronto series. It's tedious, almost impossible, and definitely not worth it to search for my old posts from a few years ago, but I defended the program back then with the same argument you did here. I even brought it back up when we signed Mario and pointed out that without the extra Toronto cash in Ralph's pocket, we probably don't offer that large of a contract to anyone. The problem is that, in practice, the entire program is a flop. The Buffalo fans hate it, the people of Toronto hate it (check out the comments section here, I was surprised to see there are people that actually want to go but just cant/wont justify the price), the players hate it, the Rogers people are losing money and don't like it, it takes away a home game and however small of a value you want to put on that, the point stands that the FO should be putting the team in the best position to WIN, not hamstring it for $$$. The best and quickest way to $$$ is winning. It's not rocket surgery. As far as the next owner and the location of the team is concerned, we'll cross that (Peace) bridge when we come to it. If the team moves, easy answer as most of us around here would be done with the NFL. Either way, there is no more worrying about the Bills again. Until that day comes though, the number 1 goal should be winning as many games as they can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsBytheBay Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 If you don't think the Bills have a better chance of winning a game at the Ralph than at the Rogers Centre, then you are delusional. The Atlanta game was a prime example of a game where the Bills would have had home field advantage in the cold over a dome team. Instead what did we do? We moved the game to a dome with a crowd that is rooting for the visitors. I agree the TO series has little to do with winning in general, but the games that are played in Toronto might as well just be marked down as losses. This is not a "home" game it is a road game and virtually every NFL team plays better at home. if you haven't followed my posts in this thread, don't jump on. You obviously haven't, or you don't understand what I've been saying. With a defense that actually brings it we finally have real home field advantage. Why give up 12.5% of that annually? I'm not so worried about home field advantage for one year, as I am worried about were home field will be in 5 years. I understand and agree with your post as it pertains to why the Bills decided to do the Toronto series. It's tedious, almost impossible, and definitely not worth it to search for my old posts from a few years ago, but I defended the program back then with the same argument you did here. I even brought it back up when we signed Mario and pointed out that without the extra Toronto cash in Ralph's pocket, we probably don't offer that large of a contract to anyone. The problem is that, in practice, the entire program is a flop. The Buffalo fans hate it, the people of Toronto hate it (check out the comments section here, I was surprised to see there are people that actually want to go but just cant/wont justify the price), the players hate it, the Rogers people are losing money and don't like it, it takes away a home game and however small of a value you want to put on that, the point stands that the FO should be putting the team in the best position to WIN, not hamstring it for $$$. The best and quickest way to $$$ is winning. It's not rocket surgery. As far as the next owner and the location of the team is concerned, we'll cross that (Peace) bridge when we come to it. If the team moves, easy answer as most of us around here would be done with the NFL. Either way, there is no more worrying about the Bills again. Until that day comes though, the number 1 goal should be winning as many games as they can. I just hope were not looking back, and asking what else could have been done. That is all. That, and I understand their efforts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckinny Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 You want to regionalize...Take Marrone and the bills back to the Carrier Dome in Syracuse. No passport required. Maybe convert some of them from the Jets and Giants fans to the shorter drive to the OP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Front Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 But, but the Bills are "Savored across both borders." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillnutinHouston Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 As far as the next owner and the location of the team is concerned, we'll cross that (Peace) bridge when we come to it. If the team moves, easy answer as most of us around here would be done with the NFL. Either way, there is no more worrying about the Bills again. Until that day comes though, the number 1 goal should be winning as many games as they can. Gee, thanks for taking this burden from us. I feel much better knowing you got this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillnutinHouston Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 Bills houston nut's arguments: Stevie johnson does drop ball in rws x1000 Strawman Comeback game 20 years ago x1000 I am a sth so everyone who disagrees with me is whiny and entitled. Did I miss anything? I never discussed Stevie dropping anything in RWS. What I said was, Stevie's fumble in TO directly resulted in the Bills losing. How is this debatable? The greatest comeback game was not sold out. That was a solid team with legitimate playoff aspirations - but they were playing in front of a spolied fanbase. I'm not asking anyone to agree with me, or disagree. Just expressing the opinion that many fans want/expect everything on their terms: prices, location and wins. And rather than lifting a finger to support what the Bills are trying to do to improve their bottom-tier market, these fans choose to bash the series, blame losses on it (even when one play snatches defeat from the jaws of victory) and claim that winning will cure the WNY market's financial challenges. This group prefers to keep their fingers crossed hoping the next ownership group isn't financially savvy - they'd rather whistle past the graveyard and expect the NFL to stay in Buffalo out of mere nostalgia. Looking forward to the next ownership group, I happen to find that way of thinking wrong and dangerous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Day 10 Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 (edited) for the record, that game didnt cost the team the playoffs. The Pittsburgh flop and taking the field like dogs against Tampa were much worse offenders. The correct answer on that specific game isnt to point to any one play like the fumble(s). But on the same hand, you cant say the game is a coin toss in Buffalo as it was in Toronto and the crowd would put them over the hump. A game in Buffalo is a complete re-roll of the dice. They could get blown out in Buffalo too. Odds of winning in Buffalo are greater than Toronto though. I have already said plenty and dont want to repeat myself on the comeback game. The Sabres also had the most electrifying team in franchise history in the same year and could get more than 13K at any game though. 20 years ago is not transferrable IMO (not to ignore Bengals/Colts/Packers this weekend). I might be the most vocal on here against the Toronto series. I am a season ticket holder though if that helps my voice (and I would pay more for tickets if asked). I am also appalled as an Erie County taxpayer. I have seen this team survive and thrive in the 47 years predating the Toronto series, and it will be fine after it. The future of the team is on the new owner and what their intentions are. I can say pretty strongly that there wont be an owner who will be dissecting the balance sheets trying to weigh a few million vs moving the team. The Bills are what they are. A small market NFL team with charm, history, and pretty darn good fans. If the new owner is a fan and/or has local ties, the team will be purchased with more of a philanthropic intent than an investment. If it is an investor, then the team is gone no matter if they have 1 game, 2 games, or 4 games in Toronto. An NFL team can no doubt make more money in Toronto, Vegas, LA, San Antonio, you name it. Then there is a whole question on behind the scenes, how willing the NFL secretly is in the Bills selling to out of town interests. Also, if this game was a raging success in Toronto. Packing the place with $200 tickets. Wouldnt you surmise that a full-time move to Toronto would make awesome financial sense for the new owner? Edited January 7, 2014 by May Day 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsBytheBay Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 for the record, that game didnt cost the team the playoffs. The Pittsburgh flop and taking the field like dogs against Tampa were much worse offenders. The correct answer on that specific game isnt to point to any one play like the fumble(s). But on the same hand, you cant say the game is a coin toss in Buffalo as it was in Toronto and the crowd would put them over the hump. A game in Buffalo is a complete re-roll of the dice. They could get blown out in Buffalo too. Odds of winning in Buffalo are greater than Toronto though. I have already said plenty and dont want to repeat myself on the comeback game. The Sabres also had the most electrifying team in franchise history in the same year and could get more than 13K at any game though. 20 years ago is not transferrable IMO (not to ignore Bengals/Colts/Packers this weekend). I might be the most vocal on here against the Toronto series. I am a season ticket holder though if that helps my voice (and I would pay more for tickets if asked). I am also appalled as an Erie County taxpayer. I have seen this team survive and thrive in the 47 years predating the Toronto series, and it will be fine after it. The future of the team is on the new owner and what their intentions are. I can say pretty strongly that there wont be an owner who will be dissecting the balance sheets trying to weigh a few million vs moving the team. The Bills are what they are. A small market NFL team with charm, history, and pretty darn good fans. If the new owner is a fan and/or has local ties, the team will be purchased with more of a philanthropic intent than an investment. If it is an investor, then the team is gone no matter if they have 1 game, 2 games, or 4 games in Toronto. An NFL team can no doubt make more money in Toronto, Vegas, LA, San Antonio, you name it. Then there is a whole question on behind the scenes, how willing the NFL secretly is in the Bills selling to out of town interests. Also, if this game was a raging success in Toronto. Packing the place with $200 tickets. Wouldnt you surmise that a full-time move to Toronto would make awesome financial sense for the new owner? very good point. I guess my hope is that the game would draw Toronto fans into buffalo for home games as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 (edited) Gee, thanks for taking this burden from us. I feel much better knowing you got this. Burden? About a business decision of which us common folk have absolutely zero influence over? Why bother worrying about it? The Bills could sell out every single game for the next 3 years, but if the new owner wants to move the team, they're moving the team. Edited January 8, 2014 by DrDareustein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 (edited) Burden? About a business decision of which us common folk have absolutely zero influence over? Why bother worrying about it? The Bills could sell out every single game for the next 3 years, but if the new owner wants to move the team, they're moving the team. Not if it's more profitable here. That's the whole point. The more reason to stay in Buffalo, the better. Which makes the Toronto series a necessary evil. Edited January 8, 2014 by FireChan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 Not if it's more profitable here. That's the whole point. The more reason to stay in Buffalo, the better. Which makes the Toronto series a necessary evil. Ticket sales dont hold a candle to a larger TV market, even if our Stadium held 90,000 and sold out every game. It's all about that TV money nowadays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigK14094 Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 Since the Toronto City laws preclude tailgating, you really change the game experience. Now, my crew are not drinkers to speak of, but we do have a bottle of beer or a glass of wine with our theme based lunches. (Cuban sandwiches when the Phins come to town, ribs for the KC game etc) Anyhow, all that is gone with the Toronto experience. Even Canadian Bills fans who come to the Ralph do not go to the Toronto game. So, the game experience is totally different, can't expect the same fan base to support that totally different experience. I might add, that other venues in the league have different experiences as well...attended a game in Baltimore (early Losman era) a few years ago, and the outside stadium experience was PGA tournament like, different than Buffalo. We arrived by train...station at the stadium, and walked right in past all those hospitality tents. Like I said, different experience in Toronto (and elsewhere) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shibuya Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 Joke all you like, but regionalization is essential if there's going to even BE a Buffalo Bills under the next owner. As is a state of the art stadium Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 Ticket sales dont hold a candle to a larger TV market, even if our Stadium held 90,000 and sold out every game. It's all about that TV money nowadays. Which is the point. More fans-more TV ratings. It we increase Toronto fans, they will watch more games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 Which is the point. More fans-more TV ratings. It we increase Toronto fans, they will watch more games. Except those eyeballs are located outside the US and don't factor in for Nielsen ratings. Which are the ones the league really cares about. Expanding to TO is more like expanding to London rather than the last push into the Carolinas and North Florida. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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