thewildrabbit Posted January 6, 2014 Posted January 6, 2014 FWIW, I didn't need 3 years to see that Jauron stunk, or 3 years to see that Gailey stunk. It was mostly because of their choices on assistant coaches too. Jauron promoted QB coach Turk Schonert to OC after OC Steve Fairchild took a college HCing job. That move proved to be a 2 year disaster and yet he ended up with a better record then Gailey. Then in his last season Jauron fired his OC Schonert two weeks before the start of the 09 season and promoted QB coach Alec Van pelt to OC. Chan Gailey had his anchor in DC George Edwards, who got two years as DC a man who he knew from his days as HC in Dallas. Same with Wannstadt who he knew from his days in Miami. Both friends basically got Gailey fired. Just like now, most every Bills fan knew George Edwards was never going to cut it after his first year. yet Gailey gave him another season to fall on his face harder. Wannstedt even had a 100 million dollar DE and still set franchise and NFL records for being bad. Crossman has already allowed a franchise record for returns to the Cleveland Browns. This is not going to end well, for Crossman or Marrone.
bigK14094 Posted January 6, 2014 Posted January 6, 2014 That's too bad. Marrone is stubborn, we've seen it with players and now with the coaches. It's a bad, bad trait for head coaches (but common) and it's going to get Marrone fired in a year or two, I fear. Yep, this is just another 3 laps around the same old track I am thinking.
NoSaint Posted January 6, 2014 Posted January 6, 2014 There's the white flag... yup. really theres no other argument to be made than "i hope we get lucky" its 3 different cities, 2 of them for long stretches -- you can only point so many directions before the answer is it might be you thats the problem.
26CornerBlitz Posted January 6, 2014 Posted January 6, 2014 "Don't confuse effort with results" - Bills Head Coach Doug Marrone
jamadd Posted January 6, 2014 Posted January 6, 2014 Highest rated ST coach who's HC was fired, Mike Priefer in Minn. Just sayin..... http://www.vikings.com/team/coaches/mike-priefer/da2145cd-750f-423a-a6fd-7157e0c3e853
Casey D Posted January 6, 2014 Posted January 6, 2014 Watching a replay to see which player screwed up is entirely different from being able to see stark results of an entire unit showing little evidence of preparation or improvement over a year. You don't need a DVR to discern this. Here's a question. Do you think Marrone's personal friendship with Crossman had anything to do with his hiring? In other words, given Crossman's poor record in the NFL at this job, do you think Marrone would have sought him out to hire as his ST coach? There's the white flag... Of course his being a friend had a lot to do with him getting the job-- that happens all the time in all walks of life. But that does not mean that because you know someone you hire or retain them even if incompetent. I assume Marrone thinks Crossman is a quality ST coach or he would not have hired him in the first place. He may be wrong, but if he is Marrone is possibly betting his HC career on it. And I believe Marrone likes his job-- and what it brings to him and his family in terms of financial security-- more than Danny Crossman. Hmm... do I do this for Danny or my kids? Easy call, don't you think? I believe Marrone would fire Crossman in a heartbeat if he felt it would bring the Bills closer to the playoffs. Why would you think otherwise? do you promise to blindly trust me no matter who it is, simply due to my job title? Yes, until you show me you are incompetent. I have not reached the conclusion that Marrone is incompetent. And as a manager, you need to give situations time to play out and not change course as soon as things get rough. It's called leadership.
H2o Posted January 6, 2014 Posted January 6, 2014 is his (Marrone's) approach starting to remind anyone of Greg Schiano in Tampa? Hoping we don't have the same results, but is he trying to bring his same type of college mentality to the NFL?
1B4IDie Posted January 6, 2014 Posted January 6, 2014 Highest rated ST coach who's HC was fired, Mike Priefer in Minn. Just sayin..... http://www.vikings.c...fd-7157e0c3e853 I posted this in one of the many other Fire Crossman threads: Mike Priefer: He has spent 20 years as a college and pro special teams coach, including the past three seasons with the Vikings. Priefer, 47, flew Navy helicopters for six years and has an intense, no-nonsense approach that could appeal to teams wanting to instill discipline. http://www.usatoday....ikings/4256653/ Do we know a team that needs to be much more disciplined on kick coverage?
NoSaint Posted January 6, 2014 Posted January 6, 2014 (edited) Of course his being a friend had a lot to do with him getting the job-- that happens all the time in all walks of life. But that does not mean that because you know someone you hire or retain them even if incompetent. I assume Marrone thinks Crossman is a quality ST coach or he would not have hired him in the first place. He may be wrong, but if he is Marrone is possibly betting his HC career on it. And I believe Marrone likes his job-- and what it brings to him and his family in terms of financial security-- more than Danny Crossman. Hmm... do I do this for Danny or my kids? Easy call, don't you think? I believe Marrone would fire Crossman in a heartbeat if he felt it would bring the Bills closer to the playoffs. Why would you think otherwise? so you think that marrone deep down inside believes that danny crossman is coincidentally both his best friend and 100% the best coordinator he could possibly hire for the job at this point? because if hes not the best man for the job, hed be fired by the logic you are arguing, correct? that might worry me more than him simply and perhaps not fully rationally hoping his friend can right the ship. I posted this in one of the many other Fire Crossman threads: Mike Priefer: He has spent 20 years as a college and pro special teams coach, including the past three seasons with the Vikings. Priefer, 47, flew Navy helicopters for six years and has an intense, no-nonsense approach that could appeal to teams wanting to instill discipline. http://www.usatoday....ikings/4256653/ Do we know a team that needs to be much more disciplined on kick coverage? given his current status in the kluwe drama, i wouldnt count on him but who knows Edited January 6, 2014 by NoSaint
Kirby Jackson Posted January 6, 2014 Posted January 6, 2014 (edited) Crossman has proven himself incompetent in multiple places. He was a bad hire in the beginning and not surprisingly he did a bad job this year. They fell from 9th to 30th in his one year which was the largest drop of any team in the league. Even though he stinks at his job the accountability part is what bothers me. If you want to preach accountability you better practice it as well. Edited January 6, 2014 by Kirby Jackson
Maury Ballstein Posted January 6, 2014 Posted January 6, 2014 Analytics guy to Marrone: "Crossmans due"
4merper4mer Posted January 6, 2014 Posted January 6, 2014 Of course his being a friend had a lot to do with him getting the job-- that happens all the time in all walks of life. But that does not mean that because you know someone you hire or retain them even if incompetent. I assume Marrone thinks Crossman is a quality ST coach or he would not have hired him in the first place. He may be wrong, but if he is Marrone is possibly betting his HC career on it. And I believe Marrone likes his job-- and what it brings to him and his family in terms of financial security-- more than Danny Crossman. Hmm... do I do this for Danny or my kids? Easy call, don't you think? I believe Marrone would fire Crossman in a heartbeat if he felt it would bring the Bills closer to the playoffs. Why would you think otherwise? You present a false choice. The real answer is that Greggo Marrone thinks he is so all powerful wonderful that he can overcome his incompetent friend or that he is such a good judge of skills that the stats/results are lying. If Lucy Van Pelt were his best friend and he'd hired her to be the holder for our field goals, he'd have cut Carpenter by now.
Casey D Posted January 6, 2014 Posted January 6, 2014 so you think that marrone deep down inside believes that danny crossman is coincidentally both his best friend and 100% the best coordinator he could possibly hire for the job at this point? because if hes not the best man for the job, hed be fired by the logic you are arguing, correct? that might worry me more than him hoping his friend can right the ship. given his current status in the kluwe drama, i wouldnt count on him but who knows The lynch mob moves to Priefer--- now that's funny. Let's bring the internal Vikings investigation with him. As to Crossman, you know the world is not as simple as who is the absolute best at something-- you build teams and find chemistry. Marrone obviously thinks Crossman can do a good job. If his assessment is blinded by personal loyalty, Marrone will likely pay a high price for that loyalty if it is misguided. I don't know that Marrone is right, but I am confident the fire Crossman herd view is based on anger and not on better information than Marrone has. You present a false choice. The real answer is that Greggo Marrone thinks he is so all powerful wonderful that he can overcome his incompetent friend or that he is such a good judge of skills that the stats/results are lying. If Lucy Van Pelt were his best friend and he'd hired her to be the holder for our field goals, he'd have cut Carpenter by now. No, your view is colored by your opinion that Marrone is an incompetent blowhard like Greggo. Either you are right or wrong. If right, then Danny Crossman is the least of our worries, and Crossman's retention should have you doing cartwheels because it will accelerate Marrone's demise which you say is inevitable anyway. I get it.
GG Posted January 6, 2014 Posted January 6, 2014 The lynch mob moves to Priefer--- now that's funny. Let's bring the internal Vikings investigation with him. As to Crossman, you know the world is not as simple as who is the absolute best at something-- you build teams and find chemistry. Marrone obviously thinks Crossman can do a good job. If his assessment is blinded by personal loyalty, Marrone will likely pay a high price for that loyalty if it is misguided. I don't know that Marrone is right, but I am confident the fire Crossman herd view is based on anger and not on better information than Marrone has. This is a different take on blaming the fans. The reason the pitchforks are out is due to the big drop off in ST play this year from last year, and that the head coach is sticking by his friend, despite any history of having previous success in coaching special teams. This will officially end Marrone's honeymoon with the fan base.
dpberr Posted January 6, 2014 Posted January 6, 2014 Worst move of the offseason. Guess I'm glad they got *that* out of the way.
thebandit27 Posted January 6, 2014 Posted January 6, 2014 (edited) I love that this is where we are as a fan base: 8 pages on Danny Crossman and 44 pages on Da'Rick Rodgers. We've literally broken out the pitchforks over the ST coach. It's unbelievable. Does special teams matter? Sure. Is it so important that you can't be good on both offense and defense and lousy on special teams and still win? No, not even close. Denver, Philadelphia, Indianapolis, and New Orleans all ranked in the bottom 1/3 of the NFL in special teams and made the playoffs. Arizona ranked 29th and had 10 wins in the toughest division in football (this is all according to Football Outsiders). What's more is that each of these teams got markedly worse in ST ranking from 2012, and yet this hasn't affected their ability to make the playoffs at all. Want to see some teams that got markedly better in ST this year? Jacksonville, St. Louis, Detroit, Dallas, NYJ...notice any commonality among them? Let's get off this ST nonsense and focus on what's important: improving the side of the ball that's responsible for scoring points. Good grief. Edited January 6, 2014 by thebandit27
4merper4mer Posted January 6, 2014 Posted January 6, 2014 (edited) No, your view is colored by your opinion that Marrone is an incompetent blowhard like Greggo. Either you are right or wrong. If right, then Danny Crossman is the least of our worries, and Crossman's retention should have you doing cartwheels because it will accelerate Marrone's demise which you say is inevitable anyway. I get it. I don't disagree with any of this. It is just frustrating to see something so obvious and have your favorite team lose all chance. For the record I don't think Greggo Marrone is incompetent in the traditional sense. I think he is a smart guy who knows a lot about football. His flaw is he thinks he is so much better than anyone else that everyone must try to become just like him. That is why he has run ins with reporters who don't understand what he is saying...."I understand what I am saying, why can't this guy?".....Why he doubled down on his failed approach with Dareus. It is why he always seems to be talking down to whomever he is speaking with. It is also why he hired and has now retained this proven poor coach. Blowhard coaches have won in the past but all your eggs are in their basket and they fail more than they succeed. Edited January 6, 2014 by 4merper4mer
atlbillsfan1975 Posted January 6, 2014 Posted January 6, 2014 Of course his being a friend had a lot to do with him getting the job-- that happens all the time in all walks of life. But that does not mean that because you know someone you hire or retain them even if incompetent. I assume Marrone thinks Crossman is a quality ST coach or he would not have hired him in the first place. He may be wrong, but if he is Marrone is possibly betting his HC career on it. And I believe Marrone likes his job-- and what it brings to him and his family in terms of financial security-- more than Danny Crossman. Hmm... do I do this for Danny or my kids? Easy call, don't you think? I believe Marrone would fire Crossman in a heartbeat if he felt it would bring the Bills closer to the playoffs. Why would you think otherwise? Yes, until you show me you are incompetent. I have not reached the conclusion that Marrone is incompetent. And as a manager, you need to give situations time to play out and not change course as soon as things get rough. It's called leadership. I get what you are saying. but when you have an employee who has never been great at what he does and you give him another chance and he fails again, it is time to move on. Crossman has been really bad way more then he has been decent. Sorry but you have to cut ties at some point.
ColdBlueNorth Posted January 6, 2014 Posted January 6, 2014 Highest rated ST coach who's HC was fired, Mike Priefer in Minn. Just sayin..... http://www.vikings.c...fd-7157e0c3e853 Marrone should ask if we can talk to the Jet's Ben Kotwicath. I believe the Jets were around 10th in the league in regards to special teams rankings and with the number of times their offense fizzled out they must have punted a lot. Maybe Pettine can persuade him to jump from the insanity in NYC to the relative peace and ineptitude of the Ralph? I also like the idea of weakening your opponents by raiding talent on their rosters - a time-honored tradition.
Casey D Posted January 6, 2014 Posted January 6, 2014 This is a different take on blaming the fans. The reason the pitchforks are out is due to the big drop off in ST play this year from last year, and that the head coach is sticking by his friend, despite any history of having previous success in coaching special teams. This will officially end Marrone's honeymoon with the fan base. So what? If anything, it only shows the risk Marrone is taking by sticking with Crossman. if he's right, everyone here will have been a Crossman backer all along. If ST brings this team sown in 2014, Marrone will pay the price.
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