offyourocker Posted January 6, 2014 Posted January 6, 2014 That's too bad. Marrone is stubborn, we've seen it with players and now with the coaches. It's a bad, bad trait for head coaches (but common) and it's going to get Marrone fired in a year or two, I fear. Agree. Serious mistake on his part.
Mr. WEO Posted January 6, 2014 Posted January 6, 2014 I disagree. I think it was clear that HIlliard didn't have his players toe the line to Marrone's expectations. Also, where in God's name is there evidence that the quarterbacks played significantly below their talent level, like the receivers did. One would argue that goal-line pick six not withstanding, the QB coach (Hackett, and I'm sure that's the point you were trying to make, which is equally invalid) having produced three wins with three quaterbacks with a combined 1 NFL start prior to the season should have been nominated for Bills' coach of the year! So the Qb's all played at or above their "talent level", but the WRs did not? Where is the evidence of that? Some dropped passes? Who had the most drops onthe team? SJ--a veteran. Is that Ike's fault? Did NE, Detroit and Denver fire their WR coaches? This receivng crew is SJ (does his own thing), Chandler (lumbering journeyman with suspect hands), TJ (he IS playing at his talent level) and 2 rookies: Woods and Woodson, who many of us seemed to agree looked really good this year. So exactly what did Ike Hiiliard do with his WRs (or not do) to be the scapegoat here? And you seem to be alone in suggesting we do not need a new QB coach. We desperately need one for our "project" starting QB. That couldn't be more clear...
Homey D. Clown Posted January 6, 2014 Posted January 6, 2014 Heard Jeremy White on WGR mention that Crossman has been retained. Bad move on Marrone's part the whole accountability spiel is a joke. Looks like we'll have the worst special Teams unit for at least another year...
The Big Cat Posted January 6, 2014 Posted January 6, 2014 (edited) So the Qb's all played at or above their "talent level", but the WRs did not? Where is the evidence of that? Some dropped passes? Who had the most drops onthe team? SJ--a veteran. Is that Ike's fault? Did NE, Detroit and Denver fire their WR coaches? This receivng crew is SJ (does his own thing), Chandler (lumbering journeyman with suspect hands), TJ (he IS playing at his talent level) and 2 rookies: Woods and Woodson, who many of us seemed to agree looked really good this year. So exactly what did Ike Hiiliard do with his WRs (or not do) to be the scapegoat here? And you seem to be alone in suggesting we do not need a new QB coach. We desperately need one for our "project" starting QB. That couldn't be more clear... I didn't say we don't need a QB coach, nor have I ever said that. Please don't take a page out of the BADOL playbook to argue against points you insist I make/made without providing any evidence therein. Now, having said that: I've also said many times here that it wasn't just the unit's disproportionately poor play (one could argue they were our team's WORST unit), they also just didn't seem to conform to what we've come to believe are Marrone's standards for professionalism. I've made this point many times. But the game ejection, the taunting penalties, the terribly timed drops and fumbles, the goofy preseaon Vines, all these things lead me to believe that Marrone's very curt "it was a difference in philosophy" retort referred to Hilliard letting boys-be-boys when the production was--quite obviously--not there. Edited January 6, 2014 by The Big Cat
BillnutinHouston Posted January 6, 2014 Posted January 6, 2014 This is crushing news. Not sure whether I'm more disappointed about Crossman specifically, or over what this means about Marrone''s real prospects for succeeding long term.
cage Posted January 6, 2014 Posted January 6, 2014 Major loss of Marrone's credibility with regard to accountability as far as I'm concerned. I'm generally about having patience, but I agree! Canning Crossman would have been a big statement to everyone about accountability! Our Special Teams have slid from among the most feared in the league to pretty much a joke...
Mr. WEO Posted January 6, 2014 Posted January 6, 2014 I didn't say we don't need a QB coach, nor have I ever said that. Please don't take a page out of the BADOL playbook to argue against points you insist I make/made without providing any evidence therein. Now, having said that: I've also said many times here that it wasn't just the poor play on the field that our WR's were more guilty of than any other unit on the team: they also just didn't seem to conform to what we've come to believe are Marrone's standards for professionalism. I've made this point many times. But the game ejection, the taunting penalties, the terribly timed drops and fumbles, the goofy preseaon Vines, all these things lead me to believe that Marrone's very curt "it was a difference in philosophy" retort referred to Hilliard letting boys-be-boys when the production was--quite obviously--not there. Actually, I said a "new QB coach". Do you agree we need a new QB coach? At any time this season, did you (truthfully now) say to yourself: "these WRs seem wild, unruly and poorly coached. I see this as poor reflection on the WR coach"? Of course you didn't. Absolutely no one did. And name one other team where it is on a position coach, and not the HC, to make clear to every player the team philosophy and to enforce that philosophy. Do you think the pats WR coach is the one who keeps his players on the same page of the HC? Of course not--thye all are very clear on the philosophy of the team. If Marrone's players don;t have what he consider the proper decorum, it's his job to fix that problem. You make assumptions regardign Marrone's "different philosophy" comment. I can just as easily assume Ike told MArrone that Hackett is in over his head or that EJ is a mess and the reason the passing yards are what they are.
Buftex Posted January 6, 2014 Posted January 6, 2014 That's too bad. Marrone is stubborn, we've seen it with players and now with the coaches. It's a bad, bad trait for head coaches (but common) and it's going to get Marrone fired in a year or two, I fear. It may be a bad trait, but it would be even worse if he immediately caved into public sentiment, every time people complained. Fans don't always know best...we (as a collectve, not you personally Coach! ) have been as wrong as often as not about things. I wouldn't have been upset if Crossman got canned, mind you, but I have to trust that Marrone knows as much (at least!) about the woes of his team, and special teams, as we do. It is Marrones' reptuation on the line... This is crushing news. Not sure whether I'm more disappointed about Crossman specifically, or over what this means about Marrone''s real prospects for succeeding long term. That might be the more salient point...
G-Daddy Posted January 6, 2014 Posted January 6, 2014 But Chris Bown and Kyle Williams said there'd be major changes made. Guess not. Ssdd.
NoSaint Posted January 6, 2014 Posted January 6, 2014 It may be a bad trait, but it would be even worse if he immediately caved into public sentiment, every time people complained. Fans don't always know best...we (as a collectve, not you personally Coach! ) have been as wrong as often as not about things. I wouldn't have been upset if Crossman got canned, mind you, but I have to trust that Marrone knows as much (at least!) about the woes of his team, and special teams, as we do. It is Marrones' reptuation on the line... looking at 10 years of crossmans record, im not sure hes earned the benefit of the doubt. although theres nothing we can do at this point except hope crossman proves us wrong. hes now been in charge of bad units in 3 cities, and 2 of them were long term disasters. hopefully we arent the third, but ive seen and heard nothing to suggest we should be optimistic.
JPS Posted January 6, 2014 Posted January 6, 2014 Coaches don't tackle. Players do. Well, people will not want to hear it, but you're right. This team was devoid of good special teamers. Easley showed flashes. But there was no consistency. Corey McIntyre was in on virtually every ST tackle and he left with no replacement. I am less concerned with the coach than the talent, but I hope his leash is considerably shorter.
BuffaloBillsForever Posted January 6, 2014 Posted January 6, 2014 carpenter was good, but hes had good seasons before. and he didnt spend the offseason with us. unless you think he reworked carpenters kicking in the week leading into the season, im guessing DC was just doing what he does in that respect. though where you might have unintentionally hit a homerun is "did he contribute to the failure of our punter" Carpenter made it to the pro bowl with Miami several years ago I believe.
26CornerBlitz Posted January 6, 2014 Posted January 6, 2014 Well, people will not want to hear it, but you're right. This team was devoid of good special teamers. Easley showed flashes. But there was no consistency. Corey McIntyre was in on virtually every ST tackle and he left with no replacement. I am less concerned with the coach than the talent, but I hope his leash is considerably shorter. So the poor performance record of Crossman's ST units at each of his three NFL stops means nothing? Just a coincidence?
BuffaloBillsForever Posted January 6, 2014 Posted January 6, 2014 Well, people will not want to hear it, but you're right. This team was devoid of good special teamers. Easley showed flashes. But there was no consistency. Corey McIntyre was in on virtually every ST tackle and he left with no replacement. I am less concerned with the coach than the talent, but I hope his leash is considerably shorter. Marrone talks about core players on special teams but wasn't this the same core of players that ranked top 10 last year?
BillsBytheBay Posted January 6, 2014 Posted January 6, 2014 Coaches don't tackle. Players do. I don't know why we fire coaches than.
BuffaloBillsForever Posted January 6, 2014 Posted January 6, 2014 But Chris Bown and Kyle Williams said there'd be major changes made. Guess not. Ssdd. Marrone is sounding more and more like Greggo everyday.
BringBackFergy Posted January 6, 2014 Posted January 6, 2014 Danny Crossman's Special Teams pre-game visual aide tool:
YoloinOhio Posted January 6, 2014 Posted January 6, 2014 (edited) I am not surprised he didn't fire him. "Accountability" and "big changes" are not isolated to one coaching decision. Of course all the fans want him gone... the ST was not good in several cases this season. If there was a stack rank of assistants, he would be toward the bottom. However, these decisions are made with a lot more info than we'll ever have. If Marrone loses his job because of it, he made the decision HE thought was right. That's pretty much all he can do. If it leads to him getting fired, that's the chance he takes. He wants to win, he is making the decisions that it takes to do that. This is a business, I don't think he is keeping him because they played or coached together. He has shown to be pretty swift with making changes in personnel that he thinks are not working or going to work in the future. He feels they need better players before judging the coach, so if they make the adds/changes to the unit and the same thing happens next year, he may pull the trigger then. Edited January 6, 2014 by YoloInTheBlo
Mark Vader Posted January 6, 2014 Posted January 6, 2014 (edited) I don't fault Marrone for retaining Crossman. I fault him for hiring him in the first place. He hired a proven loser. Epic failure on Marrone's part. Cuts Choice; fires Hilliard; yet retains Crossman. That's not only the sign of an inexperienced coach ... it's the sign of an inept one. I hope he knows something we don't. Agreed on both statements. Hiring Crossman in the first place was a bad move, and with all the previous moves, Marrone's "Accountability" talk, now becomes highly questionable. I agree with you Gugny, I hope Marrone knows something we don't. Otherwise, I fear we are looking at Gregg Williams 2.0. Please Marrone, prove all of us wrong. Edited January 6, 2014 by Mark Vader
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