1B4IDie Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 From a pure plays/game perspective, here's how the numbers look for the Bills in 2013: Average # of Offensive Plays/Game - 69.8 Average # of Defensive Plays/Game - 68.1 Average # of FG Attempts/Game - 2.2 Average # of Punt Attempts/Game - 6 Average # of KOs/Game - 5.2 Average # of Opponent FG Attempts/Game - 2.2 Average # of Opponent Punt Attempts/Game - 5.9 Average # of Opponent KOs/Game - 5.3 http://www.teamranki.../plays-per-game http://www.teamranki...-plays-per-game http://www.teamranki...ckoffs-per-game The total # of ST plays per game was, on average, 26.8 for Buffalo in 2013. The percentages break down as follows: Offensive Plays - 42.38% Defensive Plays - 41.35% ST Plays - 16.27% I suppose one could arguably take touchbacks out of the equation on the premise that they've basically become academic at this point, which would remove an additional 2.1 KO APG for Buffalo and 3.8 KO APG for their opponents, on average. That would yield the following percentages: Offensive Plays - 43.95% Defensive Plays - 42.88% ST Plays - 13.16% Nice Break down!!! Keep the Touchbacks in because you know, the teams actually have to line up and do it. That give you Just over 2/5th, Just Over 2/5th and under 1/5th. So I'm going to stick with Special Teams being 1/5th of the game. I like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1B4IDie Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 It's 1/3 of every team; it's 1/3 of every game. No, special teams play does not account for 20 min./game, but I don't think that's what anyone means when they say it's 1/3 of them game. It's like in basketball ... foul shooting is 1/3 of the game (along with offense and defense). That's not to say that foul shots make up 1/3 of the points scored in a basketball game. When they say its "1/3/ of the game" Generally the intention is to maximize the importance of Special Teams. Meaning that Special Teams is just as important as offense and Defense. It is important but it is not equally important. I think a 1/5 of the game better crystallizes its place in the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LB3 Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 (edited) 1/6=16.666667%. Mathematically it's much closer to 1/6. Go with 1/6. Edited January 8, 2014 by KikoSeeBallKikoGetBall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 wrong. Many of us questioned it when it happened, and through the whole season. most of us Ralph should hit Crossman with his pimp cane OMG fu funniest all year ! i rolled laughing at work reading this . And i keep seeing Mac Daddy Ralph in my head wearing Kramers , from Seinfeld episode , in that borrowed Technicolor Dreamcoat with the cane strutting. Thanks for that jr1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 Man... Just read the Crossman hired thread... I forgot the time in Detroit his kick returner knelt at the 5 yard line What a disaster his units have been.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJ (not THAT RJ) Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 Sorry I missed the rest of this conversation, but thanks for indulging my pet peeve… and providing me with further evidence in support. I love this place! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 When they say its "1/3/ of the game" Generally the intention is to maximize the importance of Special Teams. Meaning that Special Teams is just as important as offense and Defense. It is important but it is not equally important. I think a 1/5 of the game better crystallizes its place in the game. It's certainly not 1/3 of the game in terms of either # of plays, or of points scored. However to say it's 1/5 of the game I think ignores the enormous impact of special teams play on both offense and defense. Think about it: every single offensive or defensive series is set up by the play of the ST unit. -If ST keeps a deep punt out of the end zone and downs it inside the 5 yd line, the odds that the defense will keep the opponents out of scoring range, and that the ensuing punt will result in favorable field position for our offense, are much increased -If ST achieves a good kickoff or punt return, our odds of entering scoring range or at least pinning the opponents deep on an ensuing punt, are much increased. -And of course, a ST turnover is a huge momentum changer, as is a botched snap or hold. I personally don't think the impact of ST on the game is adequately captured by looking at the number of plays or points scored and assigning a proportionate value. It may not be "1/3 of the game" but its impact is far greater than a numeric ratio calculated from points scored or # of plays would imply. Which is why I'm personally deeply disappointed at Marrone's decision to retain Crossman. When we consistently allow our opponents good field position whilst failing to make impactful returns, we handicap our O and our D. The ST was undisciplined and much penalized. Yeah, the coach doesn't make tackles, but the discipline of the players falls at his door. That is an excellent analogy. Free throws aren't 1/3 of the points scored, but often they are very important points that can decide games. Indeed. But ST have even more impact than FT in Bball, because they impact field position at the start of every offensive and defensive series. We are shooting ourselves in the foot with our ST play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delete This Account Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 a suggestion was made that i should repost this from the "disappointed with Marrone" thread in order to liven up this one. you make good points. and i'm not defending Crossman entirely. the questions are merited. however, there is no point at this time to make a change after only one season. last year was a rebuilding year in which many needs required addressing, and new, young players needed to be brought in. that process in itself limits what teams can do to fill their special teams roster, which essentially becomes a bit of an afterthought when it comes to addressing more pressing needs on offense and special teams. it takes years to fill special teams with "core" players under a new coach, and not just one year. had Marrone spent the offseason dedicating players to special teams, then he would be open to criticism as to why he didn't address other needs on defense or offense. it's a bit of a no-win, here. there was no sober expectation that the Bills would be competitive this season. and to suggest special teams was the only weak spot and/or the reason for the Bills 6-10 finish is not at all valid. there remain numerous holes to fill at numerous positions after several holes were filled this past year. Marrone should now have a better grasp of what he needs to continue building a contender this offseason. and Crossman et al will now have more time to develop the players he believes will form his core. if he fails next year, then it becomes a real issue. for now, he deserves to get a slight pass. jw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1B4IDie Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 However to say it's 1/5 of the game I think ignores the enormous impact of special teams play on both offense and defense. 1/5 of anything is very important. How does saying 1/5 ignore anything? You have 5 appendages sticking out of your torso. Are you saying you ignore your 5th appendage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QB Bills Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 a suggestion was made that i should repost this from the "disappointed with Marrone" thread in order to liven up this one. This is a long thread, and I don't expect you to read it all, so I'll save you some trouble. Nobody here is reasonably suggesting that special teams was the only weak spot and the cause of the 6-10 finish. Everyone can also agree that special teams are not as vital to a teams success as offense and defense. Having said that, its not something that a coach can gloss over either. You hire coaches who control certain parts of your team so having a good X, doesn't mean you are sacrificing a good Y. They are not mutually exclusive. This is why I don't understand some of the posters on here saying, for example, "the offense sucked, how can you blame the special teams?" The problem with the "its only one year, give them some time" mentality is that you can pretty much excuse anything that happened over the 16 games. Its not logical. Just like expecting a proven failure (Crossman) to finally get it in his umpteenth year and help your team. The guy has never shown improvement at any of his previous stops, and really has nothing going for him other than being chums with the head coach. Its easy to say its the players, not the scheme because there's no real way for a fan to prove either case. But looking at it from all angles, it sure appears to be the coaching. But with all of this, I believe the underlying reason why this thread has gone on for 20+ pages is because of what it says about the head coach. We all want him to succeed and be the guy we want him to be, but I'm finding it very hard to feel that way after his first year here. This decision doesn't help that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBuff423 Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 john wawrow, on 10 January 2014 - 10:41 AM, said: you make good points. and i'm not defending Crossman entirely. the questions are merited. however, there is no point at this time to make a change after only one season. last year was a rebuilding year in which many needs required addressing, and new, young players needed to be brought in. that process in itself limits what teams can do to fill their special teams roster, which essentially becomes a bit of an afterthought when it comes to addressing more pressing needs on offense and special teams. it takes years to fill special teams with "core" players under a new coach, and not just one year. had Marrone spent the offseason dedicating players to special teams, then he would be open to criticism as to why he didn't address other needs on defense or offense. it's a bit of a no-win, here. there was no sober expectation that the Bills would be competitive this season. and to suggest special teams was the only weak spot and/or the reason for the Bills 6-10 finish is not at all valid. there remain numerous holes to fill at numerous positions after several holes were filled this past year. Marrone should now have a better grasp of what he needs to continue building a contender this offseason. and Crossman et al will now have more time to develop the players he believes will form his core. if he fails next year, then it becomes a real issue. for now, he deserves to get a slight pass. jw In all due respect, I disagree. I was, and for the most part still am, a Marrone supporter. I thought Hackett did not do a great job, but I was willing to let there be a year where he "grows" into his OC position and another year with an Off-Season to work with many of the Offensive parts in place. However, Marrone cannot stand at a podium 16 weeks in a regular season and then the first in the Off-Season and preach accountability and give Crossman a pass. Are the "core" players there, maybe not? Were they ready to play on STs this year? Maybe not....but a team that goes from top 10 to almost near the bottom WITHOUT accountability is one that wreaks of hypocrisy...to me anyways. If he wants to stand at the podium and say, "Hey, our STs was not that good this year. We missed blocks, couldn't takle at times, ran out of our lanes, and generally just didn't play as expected. But we WILL get better and Crossman and I are going to be in the film room and working with our players until our STs unit is performing as we demand", then at least I give him credit for the taking ownership while expressly saying that STs need to be better coached, by Marrone or Crossman, but it needs to be addressed. However, by remaining silent on the matter (in regards to Crossman and/or STs) I have lost some respect for the guy. I hope to gain it back either in the Off-Season or by the end of next year, because as I stated I still like the guy and I really do think he *CAN* be good for the BILLS but....there's this issue of taking his words at value from this time forward for a while at least... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 1/5 of anything is very important. How does saying 1/5 ignore anything? You have 5 appendages sticking out of your torso. Are you saying you ignore your 5th appendage? 5? Which one are you missing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rubes Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 a suggestion was made that i should repost this from the "disappointed with Marrone" thread in order to liven up this one. Thanks for the perspective. I think it's very reasonable. I still wonder about his performance over the last 10 years and how he maintains a job with that performance, but I appreciate the explanation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 a suggestion was made that i should repost this from the "disappointed with Marrone" thread in order to liven up this one. I'm man enough to change my mind a bit after reading this. I'll keep an open mind about next year. Having said that, what really bugged me this year was how putrid the blocking was on kick and punt returns. It just looked like the return teams had no idea what they were doing. I was less bothered by coverage units and kicks/punts. But again, I'm willing to reconsider based on your cogent argument, and give Crossman a pass for a year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 john wawrow, on 10 January 2014 - 10:41 AM, said: you make good points. and i'm not defending Crossman entirely. the questions are merited. however, there is no point at this time to make a change after only one season. last year was a rebuilding year in which many needs required addressing, and new, young players needed to be brought in. that process in itself limits what teams can do to fill their special teams roster, which essentially becomes a bit of an afterthought when it comes to addressing more pressing needs on offense and special teams. it takes years to fill special teams with "core" players under a new coach, and not just one year. had Marrone spent the offseason dedicating players to special teams, then he would be open to criticism as to why he didn't address other needs on defense or offense. it's a bit of a no-win, here. there was no sober expectation that the Bills would be competitive this season. and to suggest special teams was the only weak spot and/or the reason for the Bills 6-10 finish is not at all valid. there remain numerous holes to fill at numerous positions after several holes were filled this past year. Marrone should now have a better grasp of what he needs to continue building a contender this offseason. and Crossman et al will now have more time to develop the players he believes will form his core. if he fails next year, then it becomes a real issue. for now, he deserves to get a slight pass.. I was close to caving and saying, "you know what? JW is right." But I can't. If The Donny was a rookie ST coach, I'd be totally down with a mulligan. But he's not. If The Donny was a successful ST coach for the bulk of his career prior to Marrone hiring him, I'd be more apt to say, "eh ... first year with a new team/players ... he'll turn it around." But he wasn't. One fact seems to be that The Donny has sucked for the vast majority of his career. Another fact seems to be that Marrone hired The Donny because they're buds. Another fact seems to be that Marrone is retaining The Donny because they're buds. I simply cannot believe that an historical failure is somehow going to make the miraculous turnaround this unit needs ... just to be "okay." Furthermore, this is much bigger than The Donny still being here. The reason he is here is going to affect this team for a much longer time, because if this is how Marrone operates, he's going to need some serious luck to be successful. Like I said before ... I am clinging on to the hope that Marrone knows something we don't and that he truly knows that The Donny will turn things around for next season. I sure as hell hope so. Go Bills! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1B4IDie Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 john wawrow, on 10 January 2014 - 10:41 AM, said: it takes years to fill special teams with "core" players under a new coach, and not just one year. I'm sorry. I don't like it when people go after our esteemed sports Journalists that take the time to post here but that statement really bothers me. 1.) This simply isn't true. 2.) in 2014 you don't have years to build anything let alone Special Teams "Core" Players. 3.) What other Head Coach in the NFL, in the history of the NFL, has ever said "We need to develop 5 or 6 core special teamers." It is the lamest excuse I have ever heard. It's worrisome that you've A.) Fallen for that excuse B.) Regurgitate the excuse. That being said normally I find your writing quite interesting and your take on the Bills refreshing. I'm just going to chalk this up to being in off-season mode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 it takes years to fill special teams with "core" players under a new coach, and not just one year. I have a hard time with this one as well. When Coach Gailey took over in 2010, in his first year before his special teams got their "core" players together, his units rated in the middle of the league. I can also say with confidence that in the other 9 teams with new coaches they did a better job of getting their "core" special teams players together as well. Why are we having so much trouble? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GA BILLS FAN Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 (edited) I was close to caving and saying, "you know what? JW is right." But I can't. If The Donny was a rookie ST coach, I'd be totally down with a mulligan. But he's not. If The Donny was a successful ST coach for the bulk of his career prior to Marrone hiring him, I'd be more apt to say, "eh ... first year with a new team/players ... he'll turn it around." But he wasn't. One fact seems to be that The Donny has sucked for the vast majority of his career. Another fact seems to be that Marrone hired The Donny because they're buds. Another fact seems to be that Marrone is retaining The Donny because they're buds. I simply cannot believe that an historical failure is somehow going to make the miraculous turnaround this unit needs ... just to be "okay." Furthermore, this is much bigger than The Donny still being here. The reason he is here is going to affect this team for a much longer time, because if this is how Marrone operates, he's going to need some serious luck to be successful. Like I said before ... I am clinging on to the hope that Marrone knows something we don't and that he truly knows that The Donny will turn things around for next season. I sure as hell hope so. Go Bills! I'm with Gugny on this as well ---- Crossman's track record is suspect ---- the lack of production and step back in the punt return with the same guy (McKelvin) and KO return (with an upgrade, Goodwin) was stark --- add to that several game costing lapses and I can't buy the argument JW is making --- sorry --- if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck -- it's a duck -- in this case the duck is Crossman being a BAD coach -- he must go --- Edited January 10, 2014 by TXBILLSFAN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 At first, I wanted Crossman gone. But after 23 pages of the guy being the devil, I'm rooting for him. #TeamCrossman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1B4IDie Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 At first, I wanted Crossman gone. But after 23 pages of the guy being the devil, I'm rooting for him. #TeamCrossman Yeah I want him to succeed but I'm not holding my breath on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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