9th draft slot puts Bills in action spot

[1billsfan]

exactly. Now imagine if Manziel for example was available and someone traded their late first, early second pick. Now imagine if we drafted Jordan Mathews, Cyril Richardson, and Sefarin-Jenkins. What scenerio would be better?

 

Heck, since we're imagining, let's imagine that both Manziel and Clowney are there, and Green Bay offers us Aaron Rodgers for the pick, and...

Edited January 6, 2014 by 1billsfan

[The Wiz]

Who exactly thinks this? What poster here has said that ONLY criminal players are worth picking?

I wouldn't mind a few. If they are getting drafted they are fast/elusive enough to get away from the police or you play for FSU.

Edited January 6, 2014 by The Wiz

[Security]

Bills should really trade back and get and extra Number 2 round draft pick and take AJ Maccarron with the extra pick to compete with EJ.

Edited January 6, 2014 by Security

[ny33]

Oh, give me a break. This is chat forum, for god's sake, not ESPN. We all need a resume to express an opinion? Or, surprise, do your standards suddenly go sky-high when you disagree with the opinion?

 

What's more, GunnerBill (make that BuffaloBarbarian) might be right about the Bills needing another quarterback. The list of rationales for poor play ("he just needs more time to develop"; "he needs more weapons"; "his protection was lousy"; "he just needs a quarterback coach") all may have merit, but after 14 years--more like 30--they're getting old. If Manuel turns out to be yet another Losman/Edwards/Johnson/Fitzpatrick, et al., then another three or four years is wasted. Do we really want to be debating quarterback prospects (and never the top ones, never in a top year) in 2018?

 

I favor drafting Matt Hundley out of UCLA. He was considered a top-ten pick before he was injured, so he would be a good value in the second or third round. Because he needs time to heal, he won't be an immediate threat to Manuel, but if Manuel turns out to be another bust (but a good guy!) or injury prone, then Hundley will be there, all the more ready to play after a year in the system. If Manuel is adequate then we have a Frank Reich in Hundley. Drafting, especially quarterbacks, is not easy. I don't blame the front office as much as many posters here for drafting poor (in hindsight) QBs, but I DO blame them for not drafting more QBs. Is the prospect of a QB controversy so horrendous that it's worth risking another four years of talking draft in December? Is that speedy wide receiver or cornerback so essential that we don't take a flier on a Russell Wilson or Colin Kaepernick? Manuel may be fine, but he also may suck, and I'd like to see the Bills in the playoffs before I'm a grandfather.

 

Do I get to say this, Todd? Or should I get 30 years of NFL experience first and get back to you?

 

1) His name is Brett, not Matt, Hundley.

 

2) Have you actually watched Hundley this season? He has poor footwork, poor accuracy, and locks on to receivers. Like Manuel, he is very talented, physically, and with the right coaching could succeed, but at the moment Hundley displays many of the negative traits that Manuel does (and Manuel wasn't so inaccurate in college).

 

3) Hundley isn't declaring, so it's a moot point.

 

Todd is correct. BuffaloBarbarian has posted in favor of drafting/signing/trading for obscure or second-rate players for what, ostensibly, seems like a ploy for attention. If he were to provide an actual assessment of Manziel, his post would have some merit.

 

As for my thoughts on Manziel, I would not use the #9 pick on someone with so many character concerns. He is also not a physical specimen at Q.B., another red flag that, on its own, would not exclude him from consideration, but there are too many red flags with Manziel to draft him so early. Motivation and work ethic are a huge factors in N.F.L. success.

[bobobonators]

1BillsFan: I don't see why you take it so personally. "EJ non-believers". LOL. I'm a firm believer in reality and not emotion. And reality states that we finished 6-10. Reality states that EJ missed 6 games due to 3 knee injuries. Reality states that Tuel shouldn't even be on the roster. Reality states that Thad, a practice squad signing, produced just about the same as our vaunted #1 pick last year. Reality states that our QB depth is below average. When a practice squad player performs on-par with your "starter" at QB, you have a serious production problem at QB on your team.

 

You think hearing about drafting a QB is annoying? I think watching Tuel start for the Bills is annoying. I think watching Thad Lewis start for the Bills is annoying. I think EJ having 0 competition for his starting job is annoying.

 

Manuel is nothing more than a "project". Nothing more. And how much do we actually have invested in this guy? Not much, relatively speaking. We traded down to get him so we didn't lose any picks. We obtained Kiko just by trading down for him. His cap number is 2 million in 2014. That ranks below the likes of:

 

Brandon Weeden, Christian Ponder, Jason campbell, kolb, cassell, matt moore, Fitzpatrick, chase Daniel, Gabbert, Orton, Drew Stanton, Matt Hasselbeck, Mark Sanchez, Matt Schaub, etc.

 

He's expendable if doesn't produce. We don't have to wait.

 

NFL moves pretty quickly these days. Many college QB's are coming out more prepared than ever. It's simply unacceptable to keep waiting for project QB's to come around.

 

EJ will of course get his shot next season at the starting job. I don't think anyone would be opposed to that. But if a solid QB is there in the 2nd round? Go for it. 3rd round? Go for it. By a miracle, Manziel or Bridgewater in the 1st? Go for it.

 

I don't care about EJ's feelings if we draft another QB. We need production from the QB position, from anyone.

 

 

 

[Pete]

Heck, since we're imagining, let's imagine that both Manziel and Clowney are there, and Green Bay offers us Aaron Rodgers for the pick, and...

my scenerio is based in reality. This is a deep draft both at the top and in depth. Fact-a great player will slide to 9- no matter if its Sammy Watkins or Johnny Douchebag or maybe even a team covets HaHa and wants to trade up to secure pick. Your proposterous scenerio is baseless

[1billsfan]

1BillsFan: I don't see why you take it so personally. "EJ non-believers". LOL. I'm a firm believer in reality and not emotion. And reality states that we finished 6-10. Reality states that EJ missed 6 games due to 3 knee injuries. Reality states that Tuel shouldn't even be on the roster. Reality states that Thad, a practice squad signing, produced just about the same as our vaunted #1 pick last year. Reality states that our QB depth is below average. When a practice squad player performs on-par with your "starter" at QB, you have a serious production problem at QB on your team.

 

You think hearing about drafting a QB is annoying? I think watching Tuel start for the Bills is annoying. I think watching Thad Lewis start for the Bills is annoying. I think EJ having 0 competition for his starting job is annoying.

 

Manuel is nothing more than a "project". Nothing more. And how much do we actually have invested in this guy? Not much, relatively speaking. We traded down to get him so we didn't lose any picks. We obtained Kiko just by trading down for him. His cap number is 2 million in 2014. That ranks below the likes of:

 

Brandon Weeden, Christian Ponder, Jason campbell, kolb, cassell, matt moore, Fitzpatrick, chase Daniel, Gabbert, Orton, Drew Stanton, Matt Hasselbeck, Mark Sanchez, Matt Schaub, etc.

 

He's expendable if doesn't produce. We don't have to wait.

 

NFL moves pretty quickly these days. Many college QB's are coming out more prepared than ever. It's simply unacceptable to keep waiting for project QB's to come around.

 

EJ will of course get his shot next season at the starting job. I don't think anyone would be opposed to that. But if a solid QB is there in the 2nd round? Go for it. 3rd round? Go for it. By a miracle, Manziel or Bridgewater in the 1st? Go for it.

 

I don't care about EJ's feelings if we draft another QB. We need production from the QB position, from anyone.

 

 

I don't care about EJ's feelings either. I'm just already sick and tired of the nonsense. You "draft another QB" guys hardly ever provide a specific player name of who you'd draft. You even said that Manuel deserves his shot next season. Yet instead of filling out a critical starting OG, OT, TE, or WR roster spot that would greatly help out Manuel, you'd burn a 1st, 2nd or 3rd pick on yet another prospect QB to groom. Its not happening because that's not how franchises striving to become successful would operate. Would you ever see the Steelers, Giants or Ravens do this? It's totally counterproductive to the QB you picked in the first round the year before. There's no miracle Bridgewater or Manziel dropping to #9 happening. That's the reality of the situation.

 

In regards to "annoying" Thad Lewis, IMO he's proven to be one of the top backup QBs in the league. How annoying was it to watch Lewis beat the Dolphins twice this year?

[Kevin]

T-t-t-Tim Tebow! A a all he does is win.

http://youtu.be/zMK9FKMG3Nc

[BuffaloBillsMagic1]

1BillsFan: I don't see why you take it so personally. "EJ non-believers". LOL. I'm a firm believer in reality and not emotion. And reality states that we finished 6-10. Reality states that EJ missed 6 games due to 3 knee injuries. Reality states that Tuel shouldn't even be on the roster. Reality states that Thad, a practice squad signing, produced just about the same as our vaunted #1 pick last year. Reality states that our QB depth is below average. When a practice squad player performs on-par with your "starter" at QB, you have a serious production problem at QB on your team.

 

You think hearing about drafting a QB is annoying? I think watching Tuel start for the Bills is annoying. I think watching Thad Lewis start for the Bills is annoying. I think EJ having 0 competition for his starting job is annoying.

 

Manuel is nothing more than a "project". Nothing more. And how much do we actually have invested in this guy? Not much, relatively speaking. We traded down to get him so we didn't lose any picks. We obtained Kiko just by trading down for him. His cap number is 2 million in 2014. That ranks below the likes of:

 

Brandon Weeden, Christian Ponder, Jason campbell, kolb, cassell, matt moore, Fitzpatrick, chase Daniel, Gabbert, Orton, Drew Stanton, Matt Hasselbeck, Mark Sanchez, Matt Schaub, etc.

 

He's expendable if doesn't produce. We don't have to wait.

 

NFL moves pretty quickly these days. Many college QB's are coming out more prepared than ever. It's simply unacceptable to keep waiting for project QB's to come around.

 

EJ will of course get his shot next season at the starting job. I don't think anyone would be opposed to that. But if a solid QB is there in the 2nd round? Go for it. 3rd round? Go for it. By a miracle, Manziel or Bridgewater in the 1st? Go for it.

 

I don't care about EJ's feelings if we draft another QB. We need production from the QB position, from anyone.

I am begiining to agree with this more and more...you make a very good argument, well thought out and makes a ton of sense...

[atlbillsfan1975]

This is the best case ever made for not selecting Johnny football.

I thought the same thing. Given BB history of QB picking.

[billsfan1959]

IMO, drafting a QB, especially in the 1st round at #9, does nothing to help this team short term or long term. Upgrades (in order of importance) at offensive line, defensive line, linebacker, Tight End, and Wide Receiver are going to bring this team to playoff contention. As far as which of those positions should be the priority early in the draft - it is way too early to tell. I would like to see the team aggressively address some of these needs in free agency. Then, (1) if there is true difference maker at one of those positions of need at #9, take him; (2) If not, hopefully we can trade down and acquire more picks; or (3) if there are no good offers to drade down, take the BPA at one of those positions.

[filthymcnasty08]

I don't care about EJ's feelings either. I'm just already sick and tired of the nonsense. You "draft another QB" guys hardly ever provide a specific player name of who you'd draft. You even said that Manuel deserves his shot next season. Yet instead of filling out a critical starting OG, OT, TE, or WR roster spot that would greatly help out Manuel, you'd burn a 1st, 2nd or 3rd pick on yet another prospect QB to groom. Its not happening because that's not how franchises striving to become successful would operate. Would you ever see the Steelers, Giants or Ravens do this? It's totally counterproductive to the QB you picked in the first round the year before. There's no miracle Bridgewater or Manziel dropping to #9 happening. That's the reality of the situation.

 

In regards to "annoying" Thad Lewis, IMO he's proven to be one of the top backup QBs in the league. How annoying was it to watch Lewis beat the Dolphins twice this year?

 

A lot of information on college QB's comes out of the combine and pro days…so many are acknowledging the need (which is glaringly obvious) but are going to follow the progression of several prospects and see whats feasible for us. Last year at this time, Geno was a consensus #1 pick of the draft among the draft gurus…..so, there's that.

 

Then the answer based on your thoughts would be to go "all-in" on Manziel or Bridgewater and let Thad and EJ duke it out for backup. Neither of those two draft choices are looking like they're going to need a 3 year "grooming".

 

We do not have on this roster a QB that could have put our very talented supporting cast in a position to win any one of the 4 Wildcard games this past weekend. The QB play was a level that makes me sad for us and what were pinning our hope for EJ to become. Because of our lack of a true starting QB, we are indeed NOT a playoff team and could not hope to be in 2014 unless EJ makes significant strides and stays healthy. Two things that I would insure against if I were our GM ].

 

I would never fault the Bills for doing such a thing as betting the farm because, like many here, I have watched this QB monstrosity play out all these years in agony. I am not advising the all-in move but those that say we should stand pat are advising that we do the same damn thing over again and expect a different result - the very definition of failure.

 

I have to believe that the NEW Coaches and the brain trust of the Bills know this.

[GunnerBill]

Then the answer based on your thoughts would be to go "all-in" on Manziel or Bridgewater and let Thad and EJ duke it out for backup. Neither of those two draft choices are looking like they're going to need a 3 year "grooming".

 

How can you possibly know that? Personally I'm very sceptical about Manziel's ability to translate his game to the NFL and I think he will take a lot of work wherever he ends up if indeed he is to succeed. Bridgewater maybe not... I can't go all in on Bridgewater because I see too much inconsistency and too many poor decisions when his first read isn't there. However, if he can start making smarter decisions more consistently then I think his game has the tools to make a quicker transition.

Equally we don't know if EJ will take 3 years to groom. First thing he has to do next year, everyone agrees, is stay healthy. If he does that then let's see how he performs. At the end of next season hopefully the sample size on EJ will be 26 games, including 4 against the Jets and 3 against the Patriots where I think you have a real opportunity to measure his development and growth.

 

Having said all that I did say in another thread if I was all in on any of the likely top 4 QBs in this draft maybe I'd feel differently about taking one should they fall to us (not that I think they will... the only way to get one would be to trade up with St Louis at number 2).

[BADOLBILZ]

Several QBs are going to be selected before we select and a few great players will slide-possible Sammy Watkins, Johnny Football. hell maybe even Barr. What I am hoping is that a player much coveted by another team is available, and we can trade down to the 20s. Ideally if we had 3-4 late first, second round picks, we could upgrade 3-4 positions right off the bat. Oline is deep and will be available there. Cyril Richardson would be a solid addition to our oline. TE should be available there too. WR is deep as well. We are in a good spot and on the cusp of greatness!

 

I agree that it might end up being a good position to trade out of and possibly add some picks.

 

If the team can't get a premium QB prospect at #9 then I would be for adding more numbers to the roster.

 

In the end though.......there is a very good chance that every player you draft this year will be off of the team or out of the league when the top QB's in this draft are just entering their prime.

 

You build long term success thru the QB position in the NFL.

[Astrobot]

I like this approach.

 

I have advocated grabbing a true 3-4 run stuffing NT like Pettine has used in the past with the Jets to truly implement the defense he would probably like to use here. Nix may fall after off-season knee surgery and he was the top rated NT - after that the drop-off in ranking of available NT's is pretty steep with a log jam of them projected as 2nd to 4th round talents. If they miss on Nix or think there are too many risks physically they can pass on this need till later.

 

Earlier in the draft I like the elite WR's because after the top 2-3 (Watkins, Evans, and Lee) there is a pretty good drop-off in talent there - Watkins is awesome, but I like Evans size better. If we can acquire another 2nd rounder for a team moving up then it would be great to grab a TE like Ebron or Amaro. After that it is a deep draft of quality OG and we can stock up and still pickup a gap-hitting linebacker to challenge for that weakside spot where our current crop of linebackers seem more suited to coverage and rushing the passer off the edge.

 

The wild card is Safety with ?s around Byrd. Clinton-Dix is a legit ball-hawking safety and will go in the 1st. If the Bills feel they have to replace Byrd and tagging him will not keep him in the fold then they may have to stay put to have a shot at Dix although 9 is a bit early for him - most have him going in the mid to late 1st round. They could drop back and miss him although I think they would be safe trading back 3-4 spots, after that it is a crap shoot.

 

I have heard the arguments about drafting a QB so why engage in them - aint gonna happen early, but they may pick up someone later particularly with the injuries and depth issues we have had this year.

 

And for all of those who go nuts when I say we should draft a NT fairly early, our run defense is anywhere from stinks to inconsistent and either way it is not where it needs to be to be a true championship defense - particularly against quality teams. Also, I have more faith in Pettine fielding a top-flight defense than I do that the offense will be top-flight any time soon so we should give him what he needs first. When you think about the defensive family tree Pettine comes from (the Jets and the Ravens) they have always had a wide-bodied run stuffer in the middle of the defense to compliment their risky attacking style of play particularly when he goes with a 3-man front and we lack that player with the bills - Dareus can fit that role in a pinch, but he is probably a better fit as a penetrating 3 technique DT or DE. I know folks have advocated more run-stuffing linebackers, but that sounds more like LeBeau's defense than a Ryan defense - although we do seem to have a run-stopping need on the weakside.

 

Flame away folks.

 

This is an excellent post! I will add one more wildcard, which everything is at the moment. Marrone, a guy who knows OL, hinted in his postseason press conference that changes would be made. Runs up the gut by CJ-FJ averaged nearly 5 ypc, while runs off tackle were close to 3 ypc. Look for a versatile tackle (RT-LT) or guard (LG-RG) early in the draft, maybe not at 9, but surely by the end of Day 2.

[BuffaloBill]

 

 

Oh, give me a break. This is chat forum, for god's sake, not ESPN. We all need a resume to express an opinion? Or, surprise, do your standards suddenly go sky-high when you disagree with the opinion?

 

What's more, GunnerBill (make that BuffaloBarbarian) might be right about the Bills needing another quarterback. The list of rationales for poor play ("he just needs more time to develop"; "he needs more weapons"; "his protection was lousy"; "he just needs a quarterback coach") all may have merit, but after 14 years--more like 30--they're getting old. If Manuel turns out to be yet another Losman/Edwards/Johnson/Fitzpatrick, et al., then another three or four years is wasted. Do we really want to be debating quarterback prospects (and never the top ones, never in a top year) in 2018?

 

I favor drafting Matt Hundley out of UCLA. He was considered a top-ten pick before he was injured, so he would be a good value in the second or third round. Because he needs time to heal, he won't be an immediate threat to Manuel, but if Manuel turns out to be another bust (but a good guy!) or injury prone, then Hundley will be there, all the more ready to play after a year in the system. If Manuel is adequate then we have a Frank Reich in Hundley. Drafting, especially quarterbacks, is not easy. I don't blame the front office as much as many posters here for drafting poor (in hindsight) QBs, but I DO blame them for not drafting more QBs. Is the prospect of a QB controversy so horrendous that it's worth risking another four years of talking draft in December? Is that speedy wide receiver or cornerback so essential that we don't take a flier on a Russell Wilson or Colin Kaepernick? Manuel may be fine, but he also may suck, and I'd like to see the Bills in the playoffs before I'm a grandfather.

 

Do I get to say this, Todd? Or should I get 30 years of NFL experience first and get back to you?

 

Like the response +1

[Astrobot]

I don't care about EJ's feelings either. I'm just already sick and tired of the nonsense. You "draft another QB" guys hardly ever provide a specific player name of who you'd draft. You even said that Manuel deserves his shot next season. Yet instead of filling out a critical starting OG, OT, TE, or WR roster spot that would greatly help out Manuel, you'd burn a 1st, 2nd or 3rd pick on yet another prospect QB to groom. Its not happening because that's not how franchises striving to become successful would operate. Would you ever see the Steelers, Giants or Ravens do this? It's totally counterproductive to the QB you picked in the first round the year before. There's no miracle Bridgewater or Manziel dropping to #9 happening. That's the reality of the situation.

 

In regards to "annoying" Thad Lewis, IMO he's proven to be one of the top backup QBs in the league. How annoying was it to watch Lewis beat the Dolphins twice this year?

 

Good point.

Look at this upcoming DraftTek scenario.

What if this is the choice in RD1?

1 1 Houston Teddy Bridgewater QB Louisville P3Grab -1 Reach

1 2 St Louis Jake Matthews LOT Texas A&M P3Grab -1 Reach

1 3 Jacksonville Johnny Manziel QB Texas A&M P1Grab -18 Reach

1 4 Cleveland Derek Carr QB Fresno State P2Grab -9 Reach

1 5 Oakland Jadeveon Clowney DE43 South Carolina P4Grab 4 Value

1 6 Atlanta Anthony Barr OLB43 UCLA P3Grab -1 Reach

1 7 Tampa Bay C.J. Mosley OLB43 Alabama P3Grab -2 Reach

1 8 Minnesota Blake Bortles QB UCF P1Grab -32 Reach

1 9 Buffalo ???

Available are:

 

Mike Evans WRF Texas A&M, Sammy Watkins WRF Clemson, or Marqise Lee WRF USC

Khalil Mack OLB43 Buffalo

Ha'Sean Clinton-Dix FS Alabama

Greg Robinson ROT Auburn

Louis Nix DT43 Notre Dame

as well as the top 3 TE's, the top 4 CB's, David Yankey OG Stanford, and the #2 and #3 LT's.

The next-rated QB on the board is #75 McCarron, who'd be there in RD3.

[maddenboy]

To cut to the chase, what the Bills need most is a difference-maker at QB.........................................if they ever hope to mae the playoffs again.

 

This. And only this. I'm sick of missing the playoffs and being a joke and being irrelevant.

 

There is no other position we can draft that will potentially get us to the playoffs other than QB.

 

If it hurts EJ's feelings, too bad. If it creates excellent competition, great. If we draft one and they both suck in 2014, draft another one in the first round in 2015.

 

You MUST have one. 2 is fine. Zero is not an option (unless you enjoy missing the playoffs).

 

(the real problem is that Whaley probably wont).

Edited January 7, 2014 by maddenboy

[3rdand12]

 

 

Good point.

Look at this upcoming DraftTek scenario.

What if this is the choice in RD1?

1 1 Houston Teddy Bridgewater QB Louisville P3Grab -1 Reach

1 2 St Louis Jake Matthews LOT Texas A&M P3Grab -1 Reach

1 3 Jacksonville Johnny Manziel QB Texas A&M P1Grab -18 Reach

1 4 Cleveland Derek Carr QB Fresno State P2Grab -9 Reach

1 5 Oakland Jadeveon Clowney DE43 South Carolina P4Grab 4 Value

1 6 Atlanta Anthony Barr OLB43 UCLA P3Grab -1 Reach

1 7 Tampa Bay C.J. Mosley OLB43 Alabama P3Grab -2 Reach

1 8 Minnesota Blake Bortles QB UCF P1Grab -32 Reach

1 9 Buffalo ???

Available are:

 

Mike Evans WRF Texas A&M, Sammy Watkins WRF Clemson, or Marqise Lee WRF USC

Khalil Mack OLB43 Buffalo

Ha'Sean Clinton-Dix FS Alabama

Greg Robinson ROT Auburn

Louis Nix DT43 Notre Dame

as well as the top 3 TE's, the top 4 CB's, David Yankey OG Stanford, and the #2 and #3 LT's.

The next-rated QB on the board is #75 McCarron, who'd be there in RD3.

Lets imagine the projection comes through as stated. Or even nearly close. ( i can see it happening too )

If Bills have a card in hand they should trade back and gather picks. Even if its only to 10 or 11.

Some one is badly going to want Evans or Watkins or Mack .

I mean i do too. Buts that some nice leverage if we get the calls.

Some nice stock this year . and the QBs worth a hoot will be gone

[artmalibu]

The only way its worth taking a QB in the 1st is if the guy is a sure thing. If not beef up the O-line and keep improving the D.