Disapointed with Marrone

[Delete This Account]

Let me repeat:

 

4 returning starters on OL

Top 3 RB's returned

Top 2 TE's returned

2 of top 3 WIDE receivers returned and 5 of the top 6 pass receivers

 

DL returned intact

Secondary...minus George Wilson.....returned intact.

 

The Bills had injuries that caused some players to miss games, every team does......but to call THAT a top to bottom overhaul is simply ignoring the facts, John.

 

The "young team" argument is also a weak excuse. Their starting units are of average age, where they are notably young is at QB.

 

you continue with the assumption that all or many of these returning players were stud, Pro Bowlers, future hall of famers off a team that finished 6-10, no less.

 

-- there were concerns across the o-line entering the season particularly at right guard and with the loss of Andy Levitre. a replacement for Levitre has not yet been found.

 

-- while RB was the team's strength entering the season, and continued to be through the season, the anticipation was it was going to take time to adapt the offense to Marrone/Hackett's scheme.

 

-- oh, and i see you fail to mention a new quarterback. how convenient. you make it seem as if the introduction of a rookie quarterback is akin to adding a new long-snapper on special teams. this is clearly where your case begins to unravel.

 

-- Scott Chandler was coming off a serious injury and his practice time limited in training camp and his playing time also limited early in the season. as for this "other" or "second" top TE, to what reincarnation of Tony Gonzalez do you speak of?

 

-- why do you go on about these receivers, as if they were a strength coming into the season. this was a position in transition, with two raw newcomers added to the mix. jeepers, you seem to make this receiving group out to be 2000 Rams or this season's Broncos. puh-leeze.

-- yadda, yadda, yadda about the defense returning mostly in tact. 1) it didn't. 2) S Jairus Byrd wasn't ready. 3) McKelvin wasn't a full-time starter last season. 4) Aaron Williams was switching position. 5) have you heard of this fellow Kiko? 6) Manny Lawson. 7) Carrington was getting an increased role. 8) Mario Williams was playing a different role. 9) the defensive scheme certainly didn't return intact.

 

you seem to boost your case to meet your over-valued expecations in believing this team was some sort of bona fide contender. it wasn't.

 

jw

[Coach Tuesday]

you continue with the assumption that all or many of these returning players were stud, Pro Bowlers, future hall of famers off a team that finished 6-10, no less.

 

-- there were concerns across the o-line entering the season particularly at right guard and with the loss of Andy Levitre. a replacement for Levitre has not yet been found.

 

-- while RB was the team's strength entering the season, and continued to be through the season, the anticipation was it was going to take time to adapt the offense to Marrone/Hackett's scheme.

 

-- oh, and i see you fail to mention a new quarterback. how convenient. you make it seem as if the introduction of a rookie quarterback is akin to adding a new long-snapper on special teams. this is clearly where your case begins to unravel.

 

-- Scott Chandler was coming off a serious injury and his practice time limited in training camp and his playing time also limited early in the season. as for this "other" or "second" top TE, to what reincarnation of Tony Gonzalez do you speak of?

 

-- why do you go on about these receivers, as if they were a strength coming into the season. this was a position in transition, with two raw newcomers added to the mix. jeepers, you seem to make this receiving group out to be 2000 Rams or this season's Broncos. puh-leeze.

-- yadda, yadda, yadda about the defense returning mostly in tact. 1) it didn't. 2) S Jairus Byrd wasn't ready. 3) McKelvin wasn't a full-time starter last season. 4) Aaron Williams was switching position. 5) have you heard of this fellow Kiko? 6) Manny Lawson. 7) Carrington was getting an increased role. 8) Mario Williams was playing a different role. 9) the defensive scheme certainly didn't return intact.

 

you seem to boost your case to meet your over-valued expecations in believing this team was some sort of bona fide contender. it wasn't.

 

jw

 

JW - what year are the Bills going to decide to field a contender? Is 2014 "playoffs or bust"? Will the media ask? Will anyone hold them accountable (fans or media) when they inevitably fall short again? One of these years they're going to have to field 22 NFL-caliber starters, no? One of these years they're going to have to spend to the cap, no? How much more kicking the can down the road are we supposed to put up with? As someone else said, it's always something. Fine, this year it was a rookie QB. Last year it was injuries and Wanstedt. What is the excuse next year? More importantly, what is the excuse this offseason for failing to go "all in" for a fan base that has suffered longer than anyone possibly deserves?

[Delete This Account]

Well...I hear you...No question viable excuses...But it's always something jw...Always something...

 

And the overhaul excuse is one I think even Marrone would not be comfortable with...He came into town lauding the talent on this roster he inherited...And overall they did little more than a baby step forward, if that...They got better in some areas, worse in others...It may be just me, but I think they looked like a 7-9 to 8-8 team on the field (even with the QB injuries) that finished 6-10...And I don't think that amounts to much of a positive review for this HC...Though clearly I don't want to run him out of town either...We'll see how 2014 goes...

 

it is always something because this team goes through head coaches and gms once every three seasons. that is why the roster turnover has blunted any sense of direction for this franchise. and it certainly hasn't helped that the Bills have failed to identify a long-term starter at quarterback.

 

there is a belief that, given time, Doug and Doug, have begun to lay a foundation for long-term success. we'll see. but to start tearing the project down at this point seems a little counter-intuitive, don't you think, and the reason the Bills have been a mess for all these years.

 

jw

 

guess i should apologize for sounding so positive. i can resume being an ass if you like, and overlook facts and perspective, though

 

JW - what year are the Bills going to decide to field a contender? Is 2014 "playoffs or bust"? Will the media ask? Will anyone hold them accountable (fans or media) when they inevitably fall short again? One of these years they're going to have to field 22 NFL-caliber starters, no? One of these years they're going to have to spend to the cap, no? How much more kicking the can down the road are we supposed to put up with? As someone else said, it's always something. Fine, this year it was a rookie QB. Last year it was injuries and Wanstedt. What is the excuse next year? More importantly, what is the excuse this offseason for failing to go "all in" for a fan base that has suffered longer than anyone possibly deserves?

 

see the above reply.

 

oh, also, you folks here are the ones that have the option of rooting for the team or not, of paying your hard-earned money on jerseys, tickets, t-shirts, parking etc. no one's forcing these things upon you. i understand fans' impatience, but it's impatience and a combination of franchise ineptitude that got the Bills here in the first place.

 

you folks can choose to root for another team if you're all fed up with the excuses.

 

as for me, i ask questions, provide perspective, seek insight, write stories and get paid whether this team wins or loses. given my job profile, i'm stuck with them.

 

jw

Edited January 15, 2014 by john wawrow

[Coach Tuesday]

it is always something because this team goes through head coaches and gms once every three seasons. that is why the roster turnover has blunted any sense of direction for this franchise. and it certainly hasn't helped that the Bills have failed to identify a long-term starter at quarterback.

 

there is a belief that, given time, Doug and Doug, have begun to lay a foundation for long-term success. we'll see. but to start tearing the project down at this point seems a little counter-intuitive, don't you think, and the reason the Bills have been a mess for all these years.

 

jw

 

guess i should apologize for sounding so positive. i can resume being an ass if you like, and overlook facts and perspective, though

 

 

 

see the above reply.

 

Maybe they cycle through GMs and coaches so frequently because the upper management refuses to fully invest in the roster, so each regime has the cards stacked against it. Or maybe also because they don't exactly aim high with their coaches and GM hires. So you're suggesting they should've stuck with Jauron? With Levy as GM? Those guys were clowns in their respective roles - they should never have been hired. I'm sorry, but continuity is the least of their problems.

Edited January 15, 2014 by Coach Tuesday

[Delete This Account]

Maybe they cycle through GMs and coaches so frequently because the upper management refuses to fully invest in the roster, so each regime has the cards stacked against it. Or maybe also because they don't exactly aim high with their coaches and GM hires. So you're suggesting they should've stuck with Jauron? With Levy as GM? Those guys were clowns in their respective roles - they should never have been hired. I'm sorry, but continuity is the least of their problems.

 

i'm making no such suggestion regarding Jauron or Marv.

i'm sayign continuity is a problem in part because the Bills haven't gotten it right in the first place going back to January 2006, when the upheavel that followed Donahoe's firing and the directionless approach the team took following that move still resonates to this day.

 

the team finally has a GM in place, someone who has NFL experience as a personnel person. and they have a coach in place, too, who seems to have begun establishing an identity for this franchise. to suggest that last season was an out-and-out failure seems to discount much of the positive that did occur.

this team needs to now build on that. and this is an important year.

 

but i get the sense from some of these posts that there is a growing sentiment among some fans that the Bills should've changed course yet again after another 6-10 season. really?

 

jw

Edited January 15, 2014 by john wawrow

[BillsVet]

This.

 

The Bills are in the position they are in because the people they hire to run the organization are not qualified, and because they aren't qualified they fields bad teams or badly coached teams or a combination of both.

 

I think there is talent on this current team, but coaching and QB is still a huge questions mark. Until these two positions are amongst the better ones in the league, they won't be winning any time soon.

 

I would argue the Bills are not keen on outsiders coming into the organization, thus the hiring of Nix (when John Guy was the only other considered) and now with Whaley. Most people realized he was the heir apparent to Buddy, but he was also part of the regime that Nix started and that failed miserably. Whaley's got to wash that smell off.

 

But it should be noted the Bills do not like finding GM's from outside the organization, having done so once in the past 30+ years. That wreaks of people trying to hide something. TD may have failed, but failing to consider outside people as most NFL teams do is a sign something's off about their way of doing business.

[thebandit27]

I would argue the Bills are not keen on outsiders coming into the organization, thus the hiring of Nix (when John Guy was the only other considered) and now with Whaley. Most people realized he was the heir apparent to Buddy, but he was also part of the regime that Nix started and that failed miserably. Whaley's got to wash that smell off.

 

But it should be noted the Bills do not like finding GM's from outside the organization, having done so once in the past 30+ years. That wreaks of people trying to hide something. TD may have failed, but failing to consider outside people as most NFL teams do is a sign something's off about their way of doing business.

 

I have two questions:

 

1) Would you not say that Whaley did some "washing off of the smell" with his 2013 draft? He did take a QB (which Nix never did), and followed suit by not only drafting impact guys with his next 3 picks, but also bucking the trend of drafting on the "choir boy" prospects.

 

2) Whaley was hired away from Pittsburgh, where he was the Pro Scouting Coordinator. Isn't this finding a GM from outside the organization?

[4merper4mer]

i'm making no such suggestion regarding Jauron or Marv.

i'm sayign continuity is a problem in part because the Bills haven't gotten it right in the first place going back to January 2006, when the upheavel that followed Donahoe's firing and the directionless approach the team took following that move still resonates to this day.

 

the team finally has a GM in place, someone who has NFL experience as a personnel person. and they have a coach in place, too, who seems to have begun establishing an identity for this franchise. to suggest that last season was an out-and-out failure seems to discount much of the positive that did occur.

this team needs to now build on that. and this is an important year.

 

but i get the sense from some of these posts that there is a growing sentiment among some fans that the Bills should've changed course yet again after another 6-10 season. really?

 

jw

 

I agree about Whaley but am curious what identity Greggo Marrone has begun to establish. I saw him yelling at you in the summer over nothing. I saw him double the punishment to a player when the single dose had already failed one day into itself. This actually punished the fans more than anyone. I see him keeping a guy that failed again after a decade of consistent failure and having the gaul to blame his players. I see him choosing poor phrasing when dismissing the WR coach. What about these things is supposed to suggest to me that this newly established identity won't be one where the players tune out a blunderbust of a coach? I hope I am wrong about him but only see a few glimmers of hope....the biggest being that they did seem to play hard in almost all of the games this year.

[Buftex]

i'm making no such suggestion regarding Jauron or Marv.

i'm sayign continuity is a problem in part because the Bills haven't gotten it right in the first place going back to January 2006, when the upheavel that followed Donahoe's firing and the directionless approach the team took following that move still resonates to this day.

 

the team finally has a GM in place, someone who has NFL experience as a personnel person. and they have a coach in place, too, who seems to have begun establishing an identity for this franchise. to suggest that last season was an out-and-out failure seems to discount much of the positive that did occur.

this team needs to now build on that. and this is an important year.

 

but i get the sense from some of these posts that there is a growing sentiment among some fans that the Bills should've changed course yet again after another 6-10 season. really?

 

jw

 

Sadly, with all the losing year after year, some get more satisfaction, at this point, in the Bills failing...everyone wants to be the first to say "see, I told you so!" We have become a very imapatient bunch, in the sense that the current group of managment, coaches and players are responsible for the previous 13 years of bad football.

 

Personally, I feel, for the first time in at least 7 or 8 years, that the Bills are headed in the right direction, or at least a markedly different direction than they have been. Baby steps...

 

I agree about Whaley but am curious what identity Greggo Marrone has begun to establish. I saw him yelling at you in the summer over nothing. I saw him double the punishment to a player when the single dose had already failed one day into itself. This actually punished the fans more than anyone. I see him keeping a guy that failed again after a decade of consistent failure and having the gaul to blame his players. I see him choosing poor phrasing when dismissing the WR coach. What about these things is supposed to suggest to me that this newly established identity won't be one where the players tune out a blunderbust of a coach? I hope I am wrong about him but only see a few glimmers of hope....the biggest being that they did seem to play hard in almost all of the games this year.

 

Everytime I see somebody throw this phrase into their criticism of the team (Marrone, Manuel, etc) i interprit it to mean the exact opposite.

Edited January 15, 2014 by Buftex

[mattsox]

The fact that he blames players for the terrible special team performance is super disapointing to me. Those more or less same guys were ranked 6th last year. I appreciate friendship but it should not come in the way of work performance. There is no question we need a better special team coach.

 

Be disappointed all you want. He's not leaving for another 2 years

[YoloinOhio]

Sadly, with all the losing year after year, some get more satisfaction, at this point, in the Bills failing...everyone wants to be the first to say "see, I told you so!" We have become a very imapatient bunch, in the sense that the current group of managment, coaches and players are responsible for the previous 13 years of bad football.

 

Personally, I feel, for the first time in at least 7 or 8 years, that the Bills are headed in the right direction, or at least a markedly different direction than they have been. Baby steps...

 

 

 

Everytime I see somebody throw this phrase into their criticism of the team (Marrone, Manuel, etc) i interprit it to mean the exact opposite.

agree

[4merper4mer]

 

 

 

Everytime I see somebody throw this phrase into their criticism of the team (Marrone, Manuel, etc) i interprit it to mean the exact opposite.

 

Then you interpret it incorrectly. At least this time.

Edited January 15, 2014 by 4merper4mer

[GG]

i'm making no such suggestion regarding Jauron or Marv.

i'm sayign continuity is a problem in part because the Bills haven't gotten it right in the first place going back to January 2006, when the upheavel that followed Donahoe's firing and the directionless approach the team took following that move still resonates to this day.

 

the team finally has a GM in place, someone who has NFL experience as a personnel person. and they have a coach in place, too, who seems to have begun establishing an identity for this franchise. to suggest that last season was an out-and-out failure seems to discount much of the positive that did occur.

this team needs to now build on that. and this is an important year.

 

but i get the sense from some of these posts that there is a growing sentiment among some fans that the Bills should've changed course yet again after another 6-10 season. really?

 

jw

 

But is the GM the ultimate decider?

 

On paper, it looks like things have changed. But is the man behind the curtain still calling the contract shots?

[thebandit27]

But is the GM the ultimate decider?

 

On paper, it looks like things have changed. But is the man behind the curtain still calling the contract shots?

 

Yes, the GM is calling the shots football-wise.

 

The only way that will change is if Russ decides he's unhappy with Whaley's performance and fires him.

[DC Bills Backer]

i'm making no such suggestion regarding Jauron or Marv.

i'm sayign continuity is a problem in part because the Bills haven't gotten it right in the first place going back to January 2006, when the upheavel that followed Donahoe's firing and the directionless approach the team took following that move still resonates to this day.

 

the team finally has a GM in place, someone who has NFL experience as a personnel person. and they have a coach in place, too, who seems to have begun establishing an identity for this franchise. to suggest that last season was an out-and-out failure seems to discount much of the positive that did occur.

this team needs to now build on that. and this is an important year.

 

but i get the sense from some of these posts that there is a growing sentiment among some fans that the Bills should've changed course yet again after another 6-10 season. really?

 

jw

 

I don't think they should have changed course rather never should have hired Marrone who was with a .500 record at Cuse. They could aim higher or try and hire a competent coach. We continue to hire guys who have been fired elsewhere or failed elsewhere or bring in mediocre coaches and expect big production from them. I can't see the winning start until the ownership thing is figured out as if I was an up and comer no way I would go to Buffalo. If ownership changes when Ralph passes good chance the whole FO and staff is gone.

[reddogblitz]

you folks can choose to root for another team if you're all fed up with the excuses.

 

Buffalo Bills, Love It or Leave It.

 

1) Would you not say that Whaley did some "washing off of the smell" with his 2013 draft? He did take a QB (which Nix never did)

 

Have your forgotten Bad Bad Levi Brown?

[thebandit27]

Have your forgotten Bad Bad Levi Brown?

 

No, that's why I said "QB"

[Delete This Account]

I don't think they should have changed course rather never should have hired Marrone who was with a .500 record at Cuse. They could aim higher or try and hire a competent coach. We continue to hire guys who have been fired elsewhere or failed elsewhere or bring in mediocre coaches and expect big production from them. I can't see the winning start until the ownership thing is figured out as if I was an up and comer no way I would go to Buffalo. If ownership changes when Ralph passes good chance the whole FO and staff is gone.

 

jeebers.

based on this, i'd reconsider referring to yourself as a "backer."

 

jw

[YoloinOhio]

i'm making no such suggestion regarding Jauron or Marv.

i'm sayign continuity is a problem in part because the Bills haven't gotten it right in the first place going back to January 2006, when the upheavel that followed Donahoe's firing and the directionless approach the team took following that move still resonates to this day.

 

the team finally has a GM in place, someone who has NFL experience as a personnel person. and they have a coach in place, too, who seems to have begun establishing an identity for this franchise. to suggest that last season was an out-and-out failure seems to discount much of the positive that did occur.

this team needs to now build on that. and this is an important year.

 

but i get the sense from some of these posts that there is a growing sentiment among some fans that the Bills should've changed course yet again after another 6-10 season. really?

 

jw

This! I was more excited after this season than any in memory. I feel like they are headed in the right direction. The only time I felt really deflated was the Tampa game... where they just looked very flat. Every team has a game like that, yes, even playoff teams. Indy got blown out at home by STL. SD lost to the Raiders. Pats lost to the Jets and SHOULD HAVE lost to the Browns at home. Cincy laid multiple eggs this year. But in the 2nd half of the Tampa game the defense was really good and then they won the following week. Rookie QB, you almost always take a step back... not forward. Yet not only did they start a rookie but they had to start two other guys at QB, one was a rookie and one was off the PS. Yet they didn't take a step back. These WRs, 2 rookies and 1 2nd year, had to practice with 3 diff starting QBs. I can't imagine judging a HC and a rookie QB after one season and wanting to change AGAIN. You need continuity because you need to get players that fit a system. That is the problem with the Browns. They spent a ton of $ on Paul Kruger and drafted Barkevious Mingo for a 3-4 Defense and now they may be changing again! They drafted Weeden and the next year changed coaches and offenses and FO and now yet another coach and another offense.

[Delete This Account]

But is the GM the ultimate decider?

 

On paper, it looks like things have changed. But is the man behind the curtain still calling the contract shots?

 

we shall see. this is a critical offseason when it comes to building on what the Bills established last year.

 

it was encouraging last year to see the Bills stock up on DL, per Pettine's wishes. and the red flag that went up with Mark Anderson's abrupt cut proved to be a false alarm given how the line came together, and the under-rated addition of Alan Branch. i thought that was a smart move.

 

what was also encouraging is how Whaley did much from a losing hand in adding one of the most qualified backup QB any team acquired after Week 3 of the preseason. Thad Lewis outshone many, including Freeman in Minnesota. of course, a case could be made that they over-estimated on Kolb, but that's another story.

 

i see analytics as already playing an influence on the Bills personnel decisions. i think Branch was one example.

 

we'll see how they proceed. and i think the first step in regards to who is in charge starts with Byrd's status.

 

i said it last summer that the Bills decision to hold firm on Byrd hurt them as much as it did the player. today, it might be hurting them even more. i don't see Byrd blinking, will the Bills?

 

jw