Beerball Posted March 29, 2014 Posted March 29, 2014 Why can't we admit that we don't know if he's going to be good? I'm going to take a stab at this because all of the posturing pro/con does bother me. People stating opinions as fact, people feeling that they must defend their position until the bitter end. People who think that tossing in an "IMO" or "I think" into their posts somehow weakens their argument. People who I guaran!@#$ing tee have seen a player live for zero minutes KNOW whether that guy will be good or not. Really bothers me. I make a conscious effort to make people understand that my opinion is just that. If I haven't seen a guy play I admit it. For some reason people feel like they have to go balls out pro or con about every stinking player anyone cares to bring up. Nobody here is an expert. Nobody here is infallible but, reading through threads you'd never know that. I freely admit that I am very unsure about EJ & I've given a % on what I feel is his possibility of future success in the NFL. I get ridiculed because of that. Why? Because it is more important for people here to "win an argument" than it is to carry on civilized conversation. Too many laptop jockeys posing as experts. Relax people...have fun...don't be afraid to not have an opinion on a subject. Common Man as in an everyday man? I don't think so! The fix or abbreviation would have been C'mon. Common man! is an old TBDism. You are showing your yute by not knowing this.
26CornerBlitz Posted March 29, 2014 Posted March 29, 2014 Common man! is an old TBDism. You are showing your yute by not knowing this. Been around here for a long time. Guess I missed out on that one.
Beerball Posted March 29, 2014 Posted March 29, 2014 Been around here for a long time. Guess I missed out on that one. I believe it was popularized by ICE but I could be wrong about that.
metzelaars_lives Posted March 29, 2014 Posted March 29, 2014 (edited) I'm going to take a stab at this because all of the posturing pro/con does bother me. People stating opinions as fact, people feeling that they must defend their position until the bitter end. People who think that tossing in an "IMO" or "I think" into their posts somehow weakens their argument. People who I guaran!@#$ing tee have seen a player live for zero minutes KNOW whether that guy will be good or not. Really bothers me. I make a conscious effort to make people understand that my opinion is just that. If I haven't seen a guy play I admit it. For some reason people feel like they have to go balls out pro or con about every stinking player anyone cares to bring up. Nobody here is an expert. Nobody here is infallible but, reading through threads you'd never know that. I freely admit that I am very unsure about EJ & I've given a % on what I feel is his possibility of future success in the NFL. I get ridiculed because of that. Why? Because it is more important for people here to "win an argument" than it is to carry on civilized conversation. Too many laptop jockeys posing as experts. Relax people...have fun...don't be afraid to not have an opinion on a subject. Common man! is an old TBDism. You are showing your yute by not knowing this. Hey we agree! When people ask me about EJ, I tell them, "the jury is still out but my gut says it's not happening." That is how I talk about football players' futures. My gut is that Johnny Manziel is going to be a good pro. But it seems like literally most people on here are like, "If the Bills drafted Manziel it would be the stupidest thing they've ever done." Or else "if the Bills draft (player who's projected to go in the second round) in the second round, I'm done with this team." I'll never forget when it became apparent on here that Cam Newton was going no. 1 to Carolina, half of this board was like, "Ha! Thanks Carolina! LOL! He's obviously going to be a bust... I know this because I watched half of an Auburn game in November..." I'm sure if there was an Indianapolis Colts fansite in 1998, half the people on there would've been mocking the Colts for taking Manning over Leaf. People on here need to preface things with, "I could be wrong but I have a feeling..." more often. The constant certainty of how good draft prospects are going to be as pros is really tiresome. All that being said, I actually agree with the OP on this one. In fact, when I heard the rumor yesterday, my initial instinct was that that meant they were going after Manziel. And I don't think they'll trade up to 1, but if they did, I would bet they would use the pick to take Manziel. Edited March 29, 2014 by metzelaars_lives
gumby Posted March 29, 2014 Posted March 29, 2014 Most of the posters here seem to get hung up on whether Manziel wil be a good pro or not and be a good fit for the Bills on the field. My opinion is that we all need to take a step back and look at the big picture. The Bills franchise just lost their long time owner. There is doubt in the Buffalo community and the NFL at large about the long term viability of the club. Johnny Manziel is more than just a QB, he's a flippin' superstar. His nickname is Johnny Football for crying out loud. He ran into trouble in college because his brand was just too big for Texas A&M or the NCAA. If the Bills were to pay the price to get him there couldn't be a bigger statement from the club that the Bills are here to stay. And if he does turn out to be as good as advertised and the team starts winning it would make it a lot easier to secure the funds for a new stadium. Just my 2 cents
3rdand12 Posted March 29, 2014 Posted March 29, 2014 If I'm not mistaken Buddy had said that they had targeted QBs in previous drafts but they kept getting taken off the board higher than the grades they had them and that they'd have to adjust their strategy accordingly. I'm guessing that they thought if they tried the waiting game again they'd lose out of a guy they believed could be a franchise QB so they traded back when they could then pulled the trigger. I'm not sure why anybody has an issue with it. If he's the guy you believe in go get him and worry about people complaining you drafted him 15 slots too high later. If he pans out nobody is going to remember it and if he doesn't at least you pulled the trigger on a guy you liked. They're really damned if they do damned if they don't. If Manuel panned out for another team that drafted him at the bottom of the 1st/top of the 2nd and the Bills didn't draft him we'd be seeing posts for years about how they failed, yet again, to pull the trigger on a QB (like we see now with Wilson and Kaepernick.) I'm all for busting their chops on those misses but I'm not going to rip them when they actually went out and got a guy. Maybe he pans out, maybe he doesn't, but that's the case with all players - at least they took a shot. I like this post . I was cool with them taking Manuel. And then trading down showed that they were not blithering idiots . Bills did the right thing. The only shame is that they did not take that risk a couple years earlier. Buddy is no riverboat gambler : )
DOGNESS Posted March 29, 2014 Posted March 29, 2014 What I dislike most about this plan is it appears that we have a very astute talent evaluator in Doug Whaley. His first draft yielded three quality players beyond the first round. (Alonzo, Woods, Goodwin). Football is a team game. One guy doesn't win or lose every week. While I like Johnny Manziel very much, I don't think he alone can offset what you will be giving up which is probably three or four starters. He's a great prospect. But he's not Andrew Luck. I also think its way to early to pull the plug on EJ. He was a rookie QB with a marginal o-line. An average at best receiving core(not that they cant be great, but you had two rookies, Woods and Goodwin, in the group). And a rookie offensive coordinator. You cant judge him after ten games. Are there concerns. Absolutely. But he could turn into a very fine quarterback. Look at the Seahawks and the 49ers. Both ranked in the twenties in passing last year. The best QB in the game last year got his clock cleaned in the Superbowl by the team with the great defense and power running game. Like I said. Its not just about one guy.The smart thing to do, IMO, is to continue to build around him. Given what a deep draft this is I would actually consider trading down in the first round. You can probably fill the rest of your holes in this draft if you do that. If Ej struggles this year, mortgage the farm. Marcus Mariota, Brett Hundley, Jameis Winston should all be out next year. That would be my plan.
metzelaars_lives Posted March 29, 2014 Posted March 29, 2014 (edited) What I dislike most about this plan is it appears that we have a very astute talent evaluator in Doug Whaley. His first draft yielded three quality players beyond the first round. (Alonzo, Woods, Goodwin). Football is a team game. One guy doesn't win or lose every week. While I like Johnny Manziel very much, I don't think he alone can offset what you will be giving up which is probably three or four starters. He's a great prospect. But he's not Andrew Luck. I also think its way to early to pull the plug on EJ. He was a rookie QB with a marginal o-line. An average at best receiving core(not that they cant be great, but you had two rookies, Woods and Goodwin, in the group). And a rookie offensive coordinator. You cant judge him after ten games. Are there concerns. Absolutely. But he could turn into a very fine quarterback. Look at the Seahawks and the 49ers. Both ranked in the twenties in passing last year. The best QB in the game last year got his clock cleaned in the Superbowl by the team with the great defense and power running game. Like I said. Its not just about one guy.The smart thing to do, IMO, is to continue to build around him. Given what a deep draft this is I would actually consider trading down in the first round. You can probably fill the rest of your holes in this draft if you do that. If Ej struggles this year, mortgage the farm. Marcus Mariota, Brett Hundley, Jameis Winston should all be out next year. That would be my plan. See this is an intelligent post. The only thing I would say is that both Wilson and especially Kaepernick showed flashes of brilliance in 2012 (realize Kaepernick wasn't a rookie). EJ didn't really show me much to make me believe he's going to be a franchise QB. He can throw and he can run, but he appears to be sorely lacking in his quick decision making abilities. Needless to say, I hope I'm wrong. And I absolutely agree that he should be given all of 2014 to develop no matter what happens. Edited March 29, 2014 by metzelaars_lives
Doc Posted March 29, 2014 Posted March 29, 2014 As I've said, unless there is a "can't miss" QB in this draft, and I'll even amend that to be "consensus top" QB, taking one in the hopes that he's better than their 1st round pick from last year who barely had a chance to prove himself, is dumb.
1billsfan Posted March 29, 2014 Posted March 29, 2014 Most of the posters here seem to get hung up on whether Manziel wil be a good pro or not and be a good fit for the Bills on the field. My opinion is that we all need to take a step back and look at the big picture. The Bills franchise just lost their long time owner. There is doubt in the Buffalo community and the NFL at large about the long term viability of the club. Johnny Manziel is more than just a QB, he's a flippin' superstar. His nickname is Johnny Football for crying out loud. He ran into trouble in college because his brand was just too big for Texas A&M or the NCAA. If the Bills were to pay the price to get him there couldn't be a bigger statement from the club that the Bills are here to stay. And if he does turn out to be as good as advertised and the team starts winning it would make it a lot easier to secure the funds for a new stadium. Just my 2 cents My two cents is that if the Buffalo Bills ever did draft Johnny Manziel, there would be such a loud clamoring on many fronts for the Bills to move to LA that it would make that possibility much more real and plausible than it was before they drafted him. Also, the buyout would seem like a lot less money for a team that already had a QB with a "superstar""Justin Beiber"-like cult following. I see EJ Manuel as a QB who can get the Bills a Superbowl if he has a great team around him using the Giants, Pittsburgh and Ravens "non-elite but plenty good enough" QB model. This season should give Bills fans a good indication of whether he can get to the Eli, Joe or Ben level. I think he can, but they do need to get him a prime receiving target to help him get over the hump in terms of having consistent winning performances.
26CornerBlitz Posted March 29, 2014 Posted March 29, 2014 As I've said, unless there is a "can't miss" QB in this draft, and I'll even amend that to be "consensus top" QB, taking one in the hopes that he's better than their 1st round pick from last year who barely had a chance to prove himself, is dumb. I'm with you because IMO a QB of that pedigree is not in this draft class.
thebandit27 Posted March 29, 2014 Posted March 29, 2014 My two cents is that if the Buffalo Bills ever did draft Johnny Manziel, there would be such a loud clamoring on many fronts for the Bills to move to LA that it would make that possibility much more real and plausible than it was before they drafted him. Also, the buyout would seem like a lot less money for a team that already had a QB with a "superstar""Justin Beiber"-like cult following. I see EJ Manuel as a QB who can get the Bills a Superbowl if he has a great team around him using the Giants, Pittsburgh and Ravens "non-elite but plenty good enough" QB model. This season should give Bills fans a good indication of whether he can get to the Eli, Joe or Ben level. I think he can, but they do need to get him a prime receiving target to help him get over the hump in terms of having consistent winning performances. Please take no offense: 1) drafting Manziel has a zero percent chance o pushing this team closer to LA or anywhere else...it's just a draft pick and he's just one player 2) there is no buyout for all practical purpose
1billsfan Posted March 29, 2014 Posted March 29, 2014 (edited) Please take no offense: 1) drafting Manziel has a zero percent chance o pushing this team closer to LA or anywhere else...it's just a draft pick and he's just one player 2) there is no buyout for all practical purpose It's just my opinion. LA is all about box office and whoever the potential owner of that franchise is, I can see them wanting "Johnny Football" being the QB of their team. The media would push for it (the Buffalo Bills moving to LA), the NFL would push for it (TMZ nation literally meets NFL), owners would push for it (many more eyes means much more money). Feel free to disagree, but that's what I think would happen in a short period of time. As in, as soon as they built the stadium. Edited March 29, 2014 by 1billsfan
T master Posted March 29, 2014 Posted March 29, 2014 http://espn.go.com/n...ading-no-1-pick Looks like getting Johnny football is doable. Yes I can hear the wailing, rendering of hair and gashing of teeth from the ultra conservative posters who call for a 5 year plan."get a guard! a WR between 6 1 and 6 2! we may go to 7-9!" He would bring a huge sense of anticipation and excitement to the Bills and yes sell tickets. Is a same-o-same o CB, WR, TE draft going to do that? No. But what if it backfires? So? This is entertainment, not war. No ones going to die if he didn't work out. But it sure would be a lot of fun in the mean time. I would go 2 first's and 2 seconds But But But --------------------------------- EJ
3putt Posted March 30, 2014 Posted March 30, 2014 http://espn.go.com/n...ading-no-1-pick Looks like getting Johnny football is doable. Yes I can hear the wailing, rendering of hair and gashing of teeth from the ultra conservative posters who call for a 5 year plan."get a guard! a WR between 6 1 and 6 2! we may go to 7-9!" He would bring a huge sense of anticipation and excitement to the Bills and yes sell tickets. Is a same-o-same o CB, WR, TE draft going to do that? No. But what if it backfires? So? This is entertainment, not war. No ones going to die if he didn't work out. But it sure would be a lot of fun in the mean time. I would go 2 first's and 2 seconds Why trade anything he'll be there at 9. 16 probably.
Bob Malooga Posted March 30, 2014 Posted March 30, 2014 2 firsts and 2 seconds for Johnny Manziel? Doug Whaley should be fired if he does this. How about letting EJ Manuel play more than 9-10 games before we label him a "bust." If he is not what you want/need/think he should be, in a couple years...take your 2 firsts/2 seconds and trade up for Jameis Winston, a QB who was actually able to win something in college, even though he did not have the talent around him that your anointed savoir, Johnny Manziel, had while at Texas A&M. (Including 2 elite OT's)
DOGNESS Posted March 30, 2014 Posted March 30, 2014 (edited) I will add that this is it for me with EJ. Whaley said it himself. Most players take the biggest step in year two. I need to see Russell Wilson stats at the bare minimum. 63% completion percentage. 26 td's. 9 picks. 3357 yards. Those were Wilsons number. Not great but solid and efficient. I dont need 5000 yards. That isn't the kind of offense they run anyway. If he cant make that kind of jump it will be time to move on. Thats not a huge jump. Edited March 30, 2014 by DOGNESS
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