Jim in Anchorage Posted January 5, 2014 Author Posted January 5, 2014 Oh the classic use smaller words thing. Timeless.
RuntheDamnBall Posted January 5, 2014 Posted January 5, 2014 (edited) Of course not--Wilson has been outstanding from day one. That's simply not a fact. Game log here for anyone who wants to look at it. http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/gamelog/_/id/14881/year/2012/russell-wilson Edited January 5, 2014 by RuntheDamnBall
Doc Posted January 5, 2014 Posted January 5, 2014 You clearly don't know what the phrase means. And i am not going to explain it to you. Simple version is do something. I believe Doc understands the phrase just fine. The Bills think that they pooped and they think they are off the pot and don't need to poop again for awhile. Also it's funny how Doc said pooping, to have a second meaning as in EJ may be poop. It was really an excellent double entendre. Given that you want to trade 4 picks for Manziel we'll try to use smaller words and more straight forward language. This. As for the double entendre, it was intentional, but I don't know yet if EJ is poop. But I'm willing to give it more than 10 games in an injury-marred rookie year before I make a conclusion. Especially given the disappointing OL and WR play. That's simply not a fact. Nope. And Wilson benefits greatly from a great defense, Lynch, and a good stable of receivers.
Jim in Anchorage Posted January 5, 2014 Author Posted January 5, 2014 This. As for the double entendre, it was intentional, but I don't know yet if EJ is poop. But I'm willing to give it more than 10 games in an injury-marred rookie year before I make a conclusion. Especially given the disappointing OL and WR play. Nope. And Wilson benefits greatly from a great defense, Lynch, and a good stable of receivers. Your still missing it. **** or get off the pot means do something, or let someone in there who will. Christ I don't believe I have to explain a saying I have known since I was A baby.
1B4IDie Posted January 5, 2014 Posted January 5, 2014 Your still missing it. **** or get off the pot means do something, or let someone in there who will. Christ I don't believe I have to explain a saying I have known since I was A baby. Again, Whaley already pooped. The poop is named EJ Manuel. Have you heard of him before?
Beerball Posted January 5, 2014 Posted January 5, 2014 I don't know who's arguing that Seattle didn't make the right choice. It certainly wasn't me. Two questions which serve as the point for my prior contention are: What is your definition of "outstanding" QB play? Can you look at Russell Wilson's stats for the first five games last year and say he was "outstanding"? Not the team. Wilson, individually. I don't care about his first 5 games. The Seattle coaching staff quickly made up their collective mind about Wilson. They were decisive and they were right.
MDH Posted January 5, 2014 Posted January 5, 2014 Your still missing it. **** or get off the pot means do something, or let someone in there who will. Christ I don't believe I have to explain a saying I have known since I was A baby. What you're missing is that they did do something, they addressed the QB issue last draft. Now, you may not like how they addressed it but to say they're sitting on their hands is nonsense. Of course, if by "do something" you mean make a ridiculous trade for a very, very questionable QB then I hope they do nothing in that regards.
San Jose Bills Fan Posted January 5, 2014 Posted January 5, 2014 I don't care about his first 5 games. The Seattle coaching staff quickly made up their collective mind about Wilson. They were decisive and they were right. The Seattle coaching staff stuck with Wilson and modified things to help him succeed, that's for sure. By midseason he was playing very well. Like many I was very pro-Wilson before the draft. To those saying he was too short we pointed out that Wisconsin had the tallest O-line in college football (average 6'6") and that his yards per attempt and yards per completion were very high meaning he had zero problems seeing downfield. Here's the thing no one has mentioned in this thread: Wilson walked into a great situation. Seattle was a playoff caliber team with gobs of talent on the O-line, at running back, and on defense. What Luck has done is much more impressive in that the talent level in Indy is much lower than it was/is in Seattle, IMO. What you're missing is that they did do something, they addressed the QB issue last draft. Now, you may not like how they addressed it but to say they're sitting on their hands is nonsense. Of course, if by "do something" you mean make a ridiculous trade for a very, very questionable QB then I hope they do nothing in that regards. This is true. Jim would be more accurate to say that the Bills pooped and he doesn't like the poop. Or to mix metaphors, the Bills have already delivered the baby and left the delivery room. Many think it's an ugly baby, some don't. But the baby's been delivered.
JohnC Posted January 5, 2014 Posted January 5, 2014 Of course not--Wilson has been outstanding from day one. EJ, a first round pick, has not. I don't understand your point. My point was simply just because a rookie qb doesn't play well in his rookie year it doesn't mean that he is going to be an abject failure. Foles and Kaepernick weren't instant stars but after a year under their belts they played better. Russell Wilson struggled in the first half of his rookie year. After that he started to play well on a very good team. Wilson playing well in his first year doesn't automatically translate into the proposition that a rookie qb who struggles is not going to develop into a franchise qb.
Beerball Posted January 5, 2014 Posted January 5, 2014 What you're missing is that they did do something, they addressed the QB issue last draft. Now, you may not like how they addressed it but to say they're sitting on their hands is nonsense. Of course, if by "do something" you mean make a ridiculous trade for a very, very questionable QB then I hope they do nothing in that regards. So, what would your approach be today?
Mr. WEO Posted January 5, 2014 Posted January 5, 2014 Unlike some of the more barbaric posters I am usually right about QBs. What are your thoughts about Luck? I don't know who's arguing that Seattle didn't make the right choice. It certainly wasn't me. Two questions which serve as the point for my prior contention are: What is your definition of "outstanding" QB play? Can you look at Russell Wilson's stats for the first five games last year and say he was "outstanding"? Not the team. Wilson, individually. Addressed that above. He's a guy many said couldn't play in this league who took over in preseason, won the starting job, played well enough to help them to 4-2 and then got even better though the season. Given his circumstances, this was an outstanding year, from the moment he won the starti g job over vet and a newly acquired free agent. That's simply not a fact. Game log here for anyone who wants to look at it. http://espn.go.com/n.../russell-wilson Thanks. I think we've all seen that game log. See above. I don't care about his first 5 games. The Seattle coaching staff quickly made up their collective mind about Wilson. They were decisive and they were right. Indeed.
MDH Posted January 5, 2014 Posted January 5, 2014 So, what would your approach be today? I'd look to add a QB but not in the 1st round. The Bills simply have too many other needs - and don't know what they have in EJ yet - to be spending top picks on a position they may or may not need help with. Spend premium picks on spots you know you need help with. I haven't looked at the FA list this off season but my preference is to bring in a vet to backup/compete with EJ. A guy who has starting experience who could also help mentor EJ since there is no QB coach. If they can't find a guy who fits that bill I'd look to the draft but likely nothing before the 3rd round unless somebody just drops in their laps who can't be passed up. The top 10 this year is littered with positions the Bills need help at - LB, WR and OL. Take the highest rated guy who fits one of those needs and be glad this draft's strengths played to your weaknesses. The last thing this team needs to be doing is giving away draft picks. If they can find a dance partner moving down is the better option. Looking at last year they landed a bunch of quality players so my faith has been somewhat restored in the front offices ability to target players who fit with what they're trying to do.
LB3 Posted January 5, 2014 Posted January 5, 2014 Addressed that above. He's a guy many said couldn't play in this league who took over in preseason, won the starting job, played well enough to help them to 4-2 and then got even better though the season. Given his circumstances, this was an outstanding year, from the moment he won the starti g job over vet and a newly acquired free agent. No. You didn't. You just sidestepped the question again and that's ok. We both think he had a really good year. I just disagree that the following stat line through the first five games is "outstanding". 79/127 62%, 163 ypg, 80.52 qb rating, 5 td, 6 int, 27 rushes for 92 yards, 0 tds. I guess your definition of outstanding play is a lot lower than mine. None of this changes the fact that I wish he was our QB.
RuntheDamnBall Posted January 5, 2014 Posted January 5, 2014 What are your thoughts about Luck? Addressed that above. He's a guy many said couldn't play in this league who took over in preseason, won the starting job, played well enough to help them to 4-2 and then got even better though the season. Given his circumstances, this was an outstanding year, from the moment he won the starti g job over vet and a newly acquired free agent. "well enough to help them to 4-2" in games that included some sub-60 QB ratings simply isn't "outstanding" from day one, your claim from earlier in the thread. He has *become* a terrific QB. The history needn't be revised to whitewash the kinds of early struggles that most rookie QBs tend to face. Anyone who insists upon doing so simply isn't interested in having a serious conversation about QB development. Should EJ come around next year I hope you will all be so charitable regarding his early ups and downs.
Rob's House Posted January 5, 2014 Posted January 5, 2014 Unlike some of the more barbaric posters I am usually right about QBs. I have to admit being wrong about Wilson though. I thought he was that kid Russell from the movie "Up". It just sounded like a loser move to me. I have been right though about: Blaine.....that one was easy Talleywhacker Blake Bortles Glove Wearing Mary and many others. I don't really know what the Bills should do from here. I liked some of the things I saw in EJ and others concern me. The bottom line for me is that with Greggo Marrone at the helm we are in trouble. I think drafting non-Qbs will set up our roster better for the next coach. Once a QB is down, it is hard to revive him and I think Greggo Marrone could screw up Unitas. I see no reason to take another QB for him to ruin while he is still in mid-ruin of EJ. Use that spot on an LB or OL who can be productive post Greggo Marrone. Okay, I actually did laugh out loud at this post. I didn't spit out any coffee, but I caught some strange glances from my co-workers. That's simply not a fact. Game log here for anyone who wants to look at it. http://espn.go.com/n.../russell-wilson Your still missing it. **** or get off the pot means do something, or let someone in there who will. Christ I don't believe I have to explain a saying I have known since I was A baby. Well, it was pretty childish to start a thread about taking a poop. The Seattle coaching staff stuck with Wilson and modified things to help him succeed, that's for sure. By midseason he was playing very well. Like many I was very pro-Wilson before the draft. To those saying he was too short we pointed out that Wisconsin had the tallest O-line in college football (average 6'6") and that his yards per attempt and yards per completion were very high meaning he had zero problems seeing downfield. Here's the thing no one has mentioned in this thread: Wilson walked into a great situation. Seattle was a playoff caliber team with gobs of talent on the O-line, at running back, and on defense. What Luck has done is much more impressive in that the talent level in Indy is much lower than it was/is in Seattle, IMO. This is true. Jim would be more accurate to say that the Bills pooped and he doesn't like the poop. Or to mix metaphors, the Bills have already delivered the baby and left the delivery room. Many think it's an ugly baby, some don't. But the baby's been delivered. Prematurely, perhaps.
Mr. WEO Posted January 5, 2014 Posted January 5, 2014 "well enough to help them to 4-2" in games that included some sub-60 QB ratings simply isn't "outstanding" from day one, your claim from earlier in the thread. He has *become* a terrific QB. The history needn't be revised to whitewash the kinds of early struggles that most rookie QBs tend to face. Anyone who insists upon doing so simply isn't interested in having a serious conversation about QB development. Should EJ come around next year I hope you will all be so charitable regarding his early ups and downs. Wilson's struggles were brief. Also, he showed evidence even in those first 5 games of the gifts he would fully display only a few weeks later. EJ hasn't show any of that yet. Their "struggles" are not comparable. As for the bolded, of course I will. If he plays the game in his second year like Wilson was playing by the middle of his rookie year, I will be very satisfied.
San Jose Bills Fan Posted January 5, 2014 Posted January 5, 2014 Prematurely, perhaps. :lol: Well done.
RuntheDamnBall Posted January 5, 2014 Posted January 5, 2014 Wilson's struggles were brief. Also, he showed evidence even in those first 5 games of the gifts he would fully display only a few weeks later. EJ hasn't show any of that yet. Their "struggles" are not comparable. As for the bolded, of course I will. If he plays the game in his second year like Wilson was playing by the middle of his rookie year, I will be very satisfied. I have a difference of opinion about EJ, but at no point did he have an outing like Wilson's in his seventh game last season, a 9 for 23 showing with a rating lower than his 39% completion percentage. So much for brief. His struggles were like those of any rookie QB. If EJ had ended the season on a high note the narrative would favor his end of game comebacks. I encourage you to look outside of the narrative. I know you have some objectivity in you, and anyone objective would say that EJ showed some good things and that he also has a lot to work on. He shouldn't go into 2014 thinking he's got a lock on the job, but nor should he go into it thinking he doesn't belong in this league. Playoff QB Andy Dalton has looked as bad as some of EJ's worst today. Luck came back from some major mistakes yesterday. Every young QB has growing pains.
Doc Posted January 5, 2014 Posted January 5, 2014 Wilson had a great OL, good WR's, a great defense (led the NFL in points allowed and 4th in yards allowed), and an almost-1,600 yard rusher. He also had 8 games with less than 175 yards passing, with 3 of them coming in the 2nd half of the season.
San Jose Bills Fan Posted January 5, 2014 Posted January 5, 2014 Wilson had a great OL, good WR's, a great defense (led the NFL in points allowed and 4th in yards allowed), and an almost-1,600 yard rusher. He also had 8 games with less than 175 yards passing, with 3 of them coming in the 2nd half of the season. And Kaepernick landed on a team that had the 2nd ranked defense in points, 3rd in yardage, a very strong running game, an excellent offensive line, and a team which had gone 13-3 the year before his first NFL start as a sophomore.
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