Mr. WEO Posted January 4, 2014 Posted January 4, 2014 Once this ends I'm sure Bills fans will pack the house in December. YEAH, RIGHT! PTR Broken record. Anyway, why would they need to meet if the Bills were not going to renew the series in TO? Phone call would do--"hey, we're not renewing. Thanks".
PolishDave Posted January 4, 2014 Posted January 4, 2014 Exactly, I'd like to know how Papazoid or the Bills or whoever can claim that the TO series has increased fans from Southern Ontario. I've yet to see on this board or talk to a Canadian at a game who even LIKES the TO series, much less became a Bills sth because of it. I agree. Every single Canadian fan I have chatted with at any of the games (which is more than you would think) has said they much rather come to a game at the Ralph. They round up the boys and its like a get out of town trip for them. They loving coming down here to party as it feels like a one day vacation for them. I totally get it too. I like going to Niagara Falls Ontario for much of the same reason. It feels like a mini-getaway of sorts where you are taking a really short vacation. Who doesn't love that? This Toronto series will end sooner or later (probably sooner). And I believe the Bills front office will use it as a Public Relations stunt to the best of their ability (which is also pretty darn good). If I'm Russ Brandon, I focus on marketing the Bills game day experience as a one day getaway for Canadians who need a break. I would also focus on expanding the Buffalo fan base more to the eastern part of NY State rather than trying to go farther north.
papazoid Posted January 4, 2014 Posted January 4, 2014 Exactly, I'd like to know how Papazoid or the Bills or whoever can claim that the TO series has increased fans from Southern Ontario. I've yet to see on this board or talk to a Canadian at a game who even LIKES the TO series, much less became a Bills sth because of it. are you suggesting that the Bills regionalization efforts have had nothing to do with increases in season ticket holders and corporate sponsors from both rochester and southern ontario ? From 2011: On any given Sunday there’s 14 or 15 percent of the fans in Ralph Wilson Stadium from Monroe County. And when you look at what’s happened in Toronto, we’ve had a 44 percent increase in season-ticket holders from the Southern Ontario marketplace in just a few years. And again, on any given Sunday you’re looking at 15 to 16 percent of our fans from Southern Ontario. Regionalization works and it will be a linchpin to everything that we do from a business standpoint moving forward. http://blogs.buffalonews.com/billboard/2011/06/brandon-touts-regionalism.html From 2013: Brandon has repeatedly said Southern Ontario fans now comprise the largest contingent of those in Ralph Wilson Stadium, outside of those who live in the immediate Buffalo Niagara region. Southern Ontario fans account for nearly 20 percent of the Bills ticket base. http://www.bizjournals.com/buffalo/news/2013/12/04/bills-challenged-to-sell-seats.html?page=all in just 2 years, fans from southern ontario who go to the Ralph increased from 15% to 20% of the total. thats another 33% increase on top of the 44% increase. that didn't happen by accident.
TheFunPolice Posted January 4, 2014 Posted January 4, 2014 Rogers wants the team in Toronto full-time, and this series is an attempt to get their hands on the team in some fashion so that they have an advantage when it goes up for sale. It's that simple. Anyone who beleives otherwise is delusional. See the article below: http://www.torontosun.com/2012/12/16/whats-the-point-for-the-bills A Rogers vulture is paraphrased in the article: When Rogers signed its first five-year deal with the Bills, a Rogers person told me what their ultimate game plan was: In his words, they had basically taken out a five-year life insurance policy on owner Wilson’s life. He was 89 at the time. He’s 94 now. Wilson is alive: It was Ted Rogers who passed away part-way through this arrangement.
papazoid Posted January 4, 2014 Posted January 4, 2014 (edited) the Greater Toronto Area has 6 million people. lets say 90% hate the bills and 10% like the NFL/Bills (600,000 people) lets say just 1% of 6 million is inclined to attend Bills games on a regular basis. thats still 60,000 fans. Edited January 4, 2014 by papazoid
Magox Posted January 4, 2014 Posted January 4, 2014 Time to get out of that crap hole, it has done nothing for this organization other than provide a little extra coin for the owner.
Mr. WEO Posted January 4, 2014 Posted January 4, 2014 (edited) the Greater Toronto Area has 6 million people. lets say 90% hate the bills and 10% like the NFL/Bills (600,000 people) lets say just 1% of 6 million is inclined to attend Bills games on a regular basis. thats still 60,000 fans. They aren't. And Russ's numbers have been verified by....who? When faced with a public relations disaster--and the TO series fits that description (unpopular with Canadians, Canadian press, fans in Buffalo, local press, players), how else is he going to spin this naked money grab by Ralph except to say that playing a a crappy game to a half full baseball stadium once a year in TO has magically resulted in an incredible increase of Canadians coming to the Ralph? Name all of the new Canadian "corporate sponsors" of the Bills over the past 2 years. Edited January 4, 2014 by Mr. WEO
papazoid Posted January 4, 2014 Posted January 4, 2014 Rogers wants the team in Toronto full-time, and this series is an attempt to get their hands on the team in some fashion so that they have an advantage when it goes up for sale. It's that simple. Anyone who beleives otherwise is delusional. See the article below: http://www.torontosu...t-for-the-bills A Rogers vulture is paraphrased in the article: When Rogers signed its first five-year deal with the Bills, a Rogers person told me what their ultimate game plan was: In his words, they had basically taken out a five-year life insurance policy on owner Wilson’s life. He was 89 at the time. He’s 94 now. Wilson is alive: It was Ted Rogers who passed away part-way through this arrangement. there is a long line of Billionaires who want to own an NFL franchise. Ted Rogers was just one of them. the Bills Franchise will be changing hands (hopefully ralph lives to 120). after that anything and everything is possible. the best way to keep the word Buffalo in front of Bills is to SELLOUT games in orchard park. Regionalization helps bigtime with that. one could argue, efforts in rochester were successful without playing a game there (yes, but they did get something tangible by moving training camp there).
todd Posted January 4, 2014 Posted January 4, 2014 Here's the thing - when it comes to money, I bet the Bills could make up for the lost $$ from the Rogers donation by making a few playoff appearances. Playing in Toronto with Canada's crappy support for the Bills definitely contributes to the Bills inability to win enough games to get to the playoffs. TL;DR: Playoffs = $$ Wins = Playoffs Toronto <> Wins
papazoid Posted January 4, 2014 Posted January 4, 2014 They aren't. And Russ's numbers have been verified by....who? When faced with a public relations disaster--and the TO series fits that description (unpopular with Canadians, Canadian press, fans in Buffalo, local press, players), how else is he going to spin this naked money grab by Ralph except to say that playing a a crappy game to a half full baseball stadium once a year in TO has magically resulted in an incredible increase of Canadians coming to the Ralph? Name all of the new Canadian "corporate sponsors" of the Bills over the past 2 years. corporate sponsors can also include premium seats and suite sales. whats next....names and addresses of the 20% individuals from southern ontario, Russ claims attends games..... if you don't believe quotes from russ about his fan base , i certainly can't provide written proof.
RuntheDamnBall Posted January 4, 2014 Posted January 4, 2014 Here's the thing - when it comes to money, I bet the Bills could make up for the lost $$ from the Rogers donation by making a few playoff appearances. Playing in Toronto with Canada's crappy support for the Bills definitely contributes to the Bills inability to win enough games to get to the playoffs. TL;DR: Playoffs = $$ Wins = Playoffs Toronto <> Wins Agreed completely. All you need to do is listen to guys like Wood to get a sense of how much playing in TO takes the wind out of this team's sails. Does a great team win there, no matter what? Sure. But I think a team that is learning how to win doesn't need any extra distractions or excuses available to them.
papazoid Posted January 4, 2014 Posted January 4, 2014 if you work the numbers back, based on russ's comments......there were about 10% southern ontario fans attending games at the ralph before the toronto series started and now there are 20%.
RuntheDamnBall Posted January 4, 2014 Posted January 4, 2014 Once this ends I'm sure Bills fans will pack the house in December. YEAH, RIGHT! PTR It shouldn't be lost on anyone that the Toronto adventure is a clarion call to tried and true Bills fans that they aren't needed, or that as much / enough support can come from Southern Ontario to fill the stadium. I am all for growing the fanbase in S. Ontario. Putting the team in an overpriced football mortuary of a dome with horrific turf is not the path to that growth. It's a misguided response to that growth. Win and this fanbase will support the hell out of them. It's a notion that is as true in New Orleans as it is in New England, as it is just about anywhere short of the places where there are waitlists for PSLs. Berate the fanbase all you want. The team isn't worse because of its fanbase. It's the reverse. if you work the numbers back, based on russ's comments......there were about 10% southern ontario fans attending games at the ralph before the toronto series started and now there are 20%. Correlation <> causation.
PolishDave Posted January 4, 2014 Posted January 4, 2014 are you suggesting that the Bills regionalization efforts have had nothing to do with increases in season ticket holders and corporate sponsors from both rochester and southern ontario ? From 2011: On any given Sunday there’s 14 or 15 percent of the fans in Ralph Wilson Stadium from Monroe County. And when you look at what’s happened in Toronto, we’ve had a 44 percent increase in season-ticket holders from the Southern Ontario marketplace in just a few years. And again, on any given Sunday you’re looking at 15 to 16 percent of our fans from Southern Ontario. Regionalization works and it will be a linchpin to everything that we do from a business standpoint moving forward. http://blogs.buffalo...egionalism.html From 2013: Brandon has repeatedly said Southern Ontario fans now comprise the largest contingent of those in Ralph Wilson Stadium, outside of those who live in the immediate Buffalo Niagara region. Southern Ontario fans account for nearly 20 percent of the Bills ticket base. http://www.bizjourna...s.html?page=all in just 2 years, fans from southern ontario who go to the Ralph increased from 15% to 20% of the total. thats another 33% increase on top of the 44% increase. that didn't happen by accident. I think you are confusing correlation with causation. An increase in Canadian fans attending Bills games is not necessarily a direct result of what you think. You should read a book or listen to the audio book version of something called Freakonomics. There are other reasons that more people come to the games here besides what you "think" or "assume" the reasons are. For example, have you also noticed that there is like a record number of cars with Canadian license plates at the Galleria Mall now compared to ever before? Is that because the Galleria Mall is successfully advertising in Canada? It has a lot to do with economics and other factors too. A lot of it has to do with the fact that the Canadian Dollar goes a long ways here compared to how it used to. If the games at Rogers' Center were filled with Canadian Bills fans then I would be inclined to agree with your line of thinking. But they aren't. Even Canadian Bills fans don't go to the Rogers' Center games in great enough numbers to suggest that this is what is increasing the Canadian fan base. Canadian Bills fans want to come to the states to watch a game. It has very little to do with the game at the Rogers' Center if you ask me. The Bills know this. They likely have an economist on staff. Heck maybe Russ studied it. Or maybe I am totally wrong? It is just an opinion.
RuntheDamnBall Posted January 4, 2014 Posted January 4, 2014 It has a lot to do with economics and other factors too. A lot of it has to do with the fact that the Canadian Dollar goes a long ways here compared to how it used to. If the games at Rogers' Center were filled with Canadian Bills fans then I would be inclined to agree with your line of thinking. But they aren't. Even Canadian Bills fans don't go to the Rogers' Center games in great enough numbers to suggest that this is what is increasing the Canadian fan base. Canadian Bills fans want to come to the states to watch a game. It has very little to do with the game at the Rogers' Center if you ask me. The Bills know this. They likely have an economist on staff. Heck maybe Russ studied it. Or maybe I am totally wrong? It is just an opinion. BANG ON my friend.
clayboy54 Posted January 4, 2014 Posted January 4, 2014 The results will be that Toronto gets the Bills, Buffalo gets the Argos, The Toronto Bills can't retain Byrd and he comes back to play for the Buffalo Argonauts but he can't figure out why we are always punting on 3rd down.
bbb Posted January 4, 2014 Posted January 4, 2014 Correlation <> causation. Thank you! You just saved me a whole lot of typing by your brevity!
Mr. WEO Posted January 4, 2014 Posted January 4, 2014 (edited) corporate sponsors can also include premium seats and suite sales. whats next....names and addresses of the 20% individuals from southern ontario, Russ claims attends games..... if you don't believe quotes from russ about his fan base , i certainly can't provide written proof. As others have just commented and as I have said in the past, it makes no sense to conclude that the incredibly embarrassing turnout and results of the games played in TO are the direct cause of any increase in Ontario Bills fans coming to the Ralph. If anything, people witnessing those games at the Skydome or reading about them in the local press are much less likely to be interested in coming to Buffalo to see more of that. If there are more Canadians in Buffalo for games then it is despite the TO games not because of it. Common sense dictates this to be true. Edited January 4, 2014 by Mr. WEO
bbb Posted January 4, 2014 Posted January 4, 2014 I agree. Every single Canadian fan I have chatted with at any of the games (which is more than you would think) has said they much rather come to a game at the Ralph. They round up the boys and its like a get out of town trip for them. They loving coming down here to party as it feels like a one day vacation for them. I totally get it too. I like going to Niagara Falls Ontario for much of the same reason. It feels like a mini-getaway of sorts where you are taking a really short vacation. Who doesn't love that? This Toronto series will end sooner or later (probably sooner). And I believe the Bills front office will use it as a Public Relations stunt to the best of their ability (which is also pretty darn good). If I'm Russ Brandon, I focus on marketing the Bills game day experience as a one day getaway for Canadians who need a break. I would also focus on expanding the Buffalo fan base more to the eastern part of NY State rather than trying to go farther north. Yup. I wonder if anybody on this board has even talked to ONE Canadian fan who is now a sth because of the TO series. To your point, the Canadian guys who sit in front of us make it more than a one day trip. They get here in their campers on Friday and the party is on! Great guys.................They hate that any games are played in Toronto.
BUNCH OF MULARKEY Posted January 4, 2014 Posted January 4, 2014 Our analytics guy Michael Lyons is all over this... Uh I think...
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