metzelaars_lives Posted January 3, 2014 Posted January 3, 2014 actually it was MSNBC , not NBC,but again, dont let reality, or facts get in the way... i never blamed obama, it was an analogy i made.. but because i am too lazy to get into it, nor think anyone would remotely give a sh%t, ill let it go.. i hope green bay wins, philly wins.. and crossman gets fired.. Actually I think you're wrong. The game was on one of the NBC's because I watched it at a bar. Why would you complain that it wasn't on MSNBC? As opposed to CNBC? The issue was that it didn't receive top billing, which would have obviously been NBC.
RuntheDamnBall Posted January 3, 2014 Posted January 3, 2014 i think talk about guns is distasteful! Sorry to make you uncomfortable!
dwight in philly Posted January 3, 2014 Posted January 3, 2014 There are many people who feel that way and I understand people who do, but I imagine from Kluwe's perspective that if he never gets another chance to kick, but that there is someday soon a gay NFL player who feels comfortable enough to be himself, that it will have been worth it for him to speak up. I fully understand those who say "keep your relationships at home," but no one asks that of a straight player. I can't imagine that an out player would be bringing his partner to the locker room any more than straight players are bringing their wives. very profound.. you are wasting your time on here.. 'MAKE THAT CHANGE" ..
NoSaint Posted January 3, 2014 Author Posted January 3, 2014 ProFootballTalk @ProFootballTalk2m Mike Priefer: I vehemently deny Chris Kluwe's allegations http://wp.me/p14QSB-9nt2 My gut says kluwe likely didnt completely make up the comments, but until another player in that locker room is done playing, I'd be surprised if anyone backs kluwe even if he's being honest The times are a-changing and the nfl locker room is likely going to be put on a fast track to catching up with the rest of society. I'm sure there will be some ugly and embarrassing stories as the changes happen A slight detour- I'd still be curious to know about the rumors of Kerry Rhodes being blackballed over possibly being gay or if his demands were simply out of line
RuntheDamnBall Posted January 3, 2014 Posted January 3, 2014 very profound.. you are wasting your time on here.. 'MAKE THAT CHANGE" .. Thanks, Chief. I'm going to head back to my normal life cutting public radio game shows. Peace out.
metzelaars_lives Posted January 3, 2014 Posted January 3, 2014 There are many people who feel that way and I understand those who. But I imagine from Kluwe's perspective that if he never gets another chance to kick, yet that there is someday soon a gay NFL player who feels comfortable enough to be himself, that it will have been worth it for him to speak up. I fully understand those who say "keep your relationships at home," but no one asks that of a straight player. I can't imagine that an out player would be bringing his partner to the locker room any more than straight players are bringing their wives. Great post and it sounds like he's obviously accepted the fact that his shtick has kind of killed any chance he has at punting again in the league.
Rob's House Posted January 3, 2014 Posted January 3, 2014 I have very little respect for this guy. I have no problem with gays or even gay marriage, but if you're going to use the fame that you derive through your employment to advance controversial political issues you have to expect that your employer may choose not to be associated with you. It really doesn't matter what the issue is. If I'm running a football team I want the focus of my team both internally and in the public eye to be based on football and non-controversial philanthropy. The fact that these people don't want to be part of his crusade doesn't make them cowards or bigots in my mind. I think he's got a lot of growing up to do. My gut says kluwe likely didnt completely make up the comments, but until another player in that locker room is done playing, I'd be surprised if anyone backs kluwe even if he's being honest The times are a-changing and the nfl locker room is likely going to be put on a fast track to catching up with the rest of society. I'm sure there will be some ugly and embarrassing stories as the changes happen A slight detour- I'd still be curious to know about the rumors of Kerry Rhodes being blackballed over possibly being gay or if his demands were simply out of line This all reminds me of that kid a few years back from Abilene Christian who was supposed to be a talented OT but he !@#$ed his biological sister and no one would touch him with a ten inch pole for fear of how that would go over in the locker room and in the public.
NoSaint Posted January 3, 2014 Author Posted January 3, 2014 (edited) I have very little respect for this guy. I have no problem with gays or even gay marriage, but if you're going to use the fame that you derive through your employment to advance controversial political issues you have to expect that your employer may choose not to be associated with you. It really doesn't matter what the issue is. If I'm running a football team I want the focus of my team both internally and in the public eye to be based on football and non-controversial philanthropy. The fact that these people don't want to be part of his crusade doesn't make them cowards or bigots in my mind. I think he's got a lot of growing up to do. Well.... Minus the nuke all the gays stuff... That probably qualifies him as a bigot. Trying to keep nudging from politics towards nfl HR policies... In the wake of the dolphins fiasco I'm curious to see if the nfl looks into this or simply buries it. I'm guessing the storys legs are about 3 days long. Edited January 3, 2014 by NoSaint
metzelaars_lives Posted January 3, 2014 Posted January 3, 2014 I have very little respect for this guy. I have no problem with gays or even gay marriage, but if you're going to use the fame that you derive through your employment to advance controversial political issues you have to expect that your employer may choose not to be associated with you. It really doesn't matter what the issue is. If I'm running a football team I want the focus of my team both internally and in the public eye to be based on football and non-controversial philanthropy. The fact that these people don't want to be part of his crusade doesn't make them cowards or bigots in my mind. I think he's got a lot of growing up to do. This all reminds me of that kid a few years back from Abilene Christian who was supposed to be a talented OT but he !@#$ed his biological sister and no one would touch him with a ten inch pole for fear of how that would go over in the locker room and in the public. Great post. I think the counter-argument would be that in order to affect social change sometimes there's going to be consequences. But I find his writings to be somewhat self-righteous and condescending. What I took away from the whole thing was how crazy the comments from the ST coach were- which, again, I totally believe to be true.
RuntheDamnBall Posted January 3, 2014 Posted January 3, 2014 I have very little respect for this guy. I have no problem with gays or even gay marriage, but if you're going to use the fame that you derive through your employment to advance controversial political issues you have to expect that your employer may choose not to be associated with you. It really doesn't matter what the issue is. If I'm running a football team I want the focus of my team both internally and in the public eye to be based on football and non-controversial philanthropy. The fact that these people don't want to be part of his crusade doesn't make them cowards or bigots in my mind. I think he's got a lot of growing up to do. Cycle back 40 years and make the issue interracial marriage. Would it have been right to sit back and not rock the boat -- or worse, to make a teammate who is in an interracial marriage feel unwelcome, like not part of the team? Because that seems to me to be worse for the team. This is the kind of lens that an advocate is viewing this issue through, FWIW. And there is a difference between not wanting to be part of the crusade -- which I understand -- and then having a coach / team leader making (allegedly) very bigoted statements of his own. The suggestions to tone it down are fairly understandable, given that he represents a public organization. Journalists have to do the same, to basically keep any advocacy out of the limelight, because it does suggest a conflict of interest. It seems like this is a step beyond that, if Kluwe is to be believed.
metzelaars_lives Posted January 3, 2014 Posted January 3, 2014 Well.... Minus the nuke all the gays stuff... That probably qualifies him as a bigot. Of course but I think he was talking more about Spielman and Frazier and I'd maybe agree with him on that.
NoSaint Posted January 3, 2014 Author Posted January 3, 2014 (edited) Of course but I think he was talking more about Spielman and Frazier and I'd maybe agree with him on that. Following the article kluwe referred to them as cowards and the coordinator as the bigot, so I figured I'd throw it out there. I'm a bit back and forth on kluwe and his takes sometimes. Often I agree with his sentiments but how he presents it is certainly up for debate. My gut says it's not good... But then again he's done more to push some of these issues into the spotlight than a lot of people and his delivery is part of his success in that dimension. I won't fault the Vikings for feeling its a distraction they don't need, but poorly handled all around organizationally (again, if true) and inexcusable on the coordinators part. Edited January 3, 2014 by NoSaint
metzelaars_lives Posted January 3, 2014 Posted January 3, 2014 Following the article kluwe referred to them as cowards and the coordinator as the bigot, so I figured I'd throw it out there. I'm a bit back and forth on kluwe and his takes sometimes. Often I agree with his sentiments but how he presents it is certainly up for debate. My gut says it's not good... But then again he's done more to push some of these issues into the spotlight than a lot of people and his delivery is part of his success in that dimension. I won't fault the Vikings for feeling its a distraction they don't need, but poorly handled all around organizationally (again, if true) and inexcusable on the coordinators part. Agree on all accounts. I just can't believe this thread lasted this long. It always gets yanked just when it starts to get fun like that.
NoSaint Posted January 3, 2014 Author Posted January 3, 2014 Agree on all accounts. I just can't believe this thread lasted this long. It always gets yanked just when it starts to get fun like that. I'm a bit surprised too- I knew it was a risky one to start and part of why I've been trying to make sure to nudge it back towards locker room culture and such even though a few times I was tempted to go astray. It's a fine line, but given things we've seen recently, I think its a fair nfl discussion even if it's a bit volatile.
IDBillzFan Posted January 3, 2014 Posted January 3, 2014 Oh, please. If the NFL has taught us anything, it's that it'll employ virtually any person at any time regardless of what they say or do as long as they think the person will help them win. If you honestly think the league that gladly gives tens of millions to an ex-con dog killer somehow DOESN'T want a guy in favor of gay marriage, you're messed up. And yes, I know the difference between a quarterback and a punter, but I also know how a good punter can help you win just as easily as he can help you lose.
RuntheDamnBall Posted January 3, 2014 Posted January 3, 2014 Oh, please. If the NFL has taught us anything, it's that it'll employ virtually any person at any time regardless of what they say or do as long as they think the person will help them win. If you honestly think the league that gladly gives tens of millions to an ex-con dog killer somehow DOESN'T want a guy in favor of gay marriage, you're messed up. There's the league and then there are individual teams. I can imagine that plenty of them think it's a good idea in principle to be forward to thinking in this regard, but don't want to be the ones taking big steps and jeopardizing image with a certain set of fans. Plus, it's not like Vick has shaken the dog-killer stigma.
NoSaint Posted January 3, 2014 Author Posted January 3, 2014 Oh, please. If the NFL has taught us anything, it's that it'll employ virtually any person at any time regardless of what they say or do as long as they think the person will help them win. If you honestly think the league that gladly gives tens of millions to an ex-con dog killer somehow DOESN'T want a guy in favor of gay marriage, you're messed up. And yes, I know the difference between a quarterback and a punter, but I also know how a good punter can help you win just as easily as he can help you lose. Real question I don't have a factual answer to, but a suspicion.... Do you think teams find a felon to be relatively normal in the locker room but homosexuality to be a potential team dividing issue? Coupled with a punter vs qb And being average vs a star But in the grand scheme I suspect as a GM homosexuality is more taboo or untouchable than a felony.
Kemp Posted January 3, 2014 Posted January 3, 2014 i am quite sure there were racist coaches in 1963, there were racist school teachers, lawyers, salesmen, fireman. it is not inconceivable.. is there a point somewhere????? you are attempting to make ??there is nothing worse on here than bills fans weighing in on social issues.. it is pathetic.. keep it to football.. AGAIN.. WHO CARES WHAT CHRIS KLUWE THINKS.. If you don't care, why even bother to comment? Seems easy enough to ignore something you say you could not care less about.
LB3 Posted January 3, 2014 Posted January 3, 2014 (edited) Interesting topic. If the backlash is so bad for Kluwe, it'll be interesting to see how it would go for a gay player. I would assume he would end up being thrown into the role of champion of the gay rights cause in the NFL. What seems to be the biggest reason Kluwe was released was the fact that he was a PR headache. Not only will the first openly gay player have the gay stigma, he'll probably end up being a headache for the team by being the figurehead of the cause. And what if he decided he just wanted to play football? He'd probably be criticized heavily for not standing up for gay rights. Edited January 3, 2014 by KikoSeeBallKikoGetBall
IDBillzFan Posted January 3, 2014 Posted January 3, 2014 Real question I don't have a factual answer to, but a suspicion.... Do you think teams find a felon to be relatively normal in the locker room but homosexuality to be a potential team dividing issue? I have no idea, but here's the thing: Kluwe didn't come out as being gay. He just said he supported gay marriage. As if anyone actually gives a flying !@#$nut what his opinion is about anything. Unfortunately, Kluwe found himself out of work, and anyone who pays even a passing interest to politics knows that there is a huge market for a celebrity voice spouting off about gay anything. Kathy Griffith would be a dishwasher at Popeyes were it not for her cowtowing to the gay market. He'll be a mini-Cindy Sheehan for the next two weeks before places like Deadspin and HuffPost realize he's just a guy who can no longer pin the ball inside the 20 and toss him to the curb when they find another celebrity to hoist on their shoulders.
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