Over 29 years of fanhood Posted January 3, 2014 Posted January 3, 2014 Kind of wondered if his long term health was a factor in that decision. It's one advantage the FO has knowledge of that we don't. No way. This board of crowd sourced knowledge is collectively much greater than any info the front office has. They are fools for not polling us experts before making decisions.
BADOLBILZ Posted January 3, 2014 Posted January 3, 2014 He made an error in judgement on Colin Brown. What about all the correct personnel decisions he's made? Like Manny Lawson or Jerry Hughes or Alan Branch. Is that because it's not his "area of expertise" he doesn't get credit for those decisions? I'd even add Frank Summers to the list of positive additions to the team. The Bills made some decisions regarding players this season for the team. A bunch of them worked, I'd say like 95%, and 1 of them didn't. If the Bills can do that same thing this offseason the team will be in a better place. Kevin Kolb also didn't work out. I am not a Fitz apologist but if we are judging front office moves, then keep in mind that the Bills had a huge turnaround on defense under Pettine, it is by no means a given that an average season for Fitz might not have gotten the Bills in the playoffs. He won 6 with the one of the worst defenses opposite him. Ultimately, the goal may not be to max out with Fitz.......but there is a school of thought that Kolb was brought in to be the starter so Manuel could work on his game for a year before actually taking NFL snaps. If you believe that, the worst move of all was swapping out Kolb for Fitz. It's also very important to remember that the reality is that the Bills really made VERY FEW acquisitions with regard to primary personnel. They added Hughes, Lawson, Branch and Legursky in FA. Four guys who were reserves elsewhere and none of them was actually an everydown player for the team. Hughes and Lawson in essence formed a platoon for one position. They added a lot of new snaps in the draft, but everybody drafts and the Bills had self-inflicted holes to fill whether those players were ready or not(Kiko ready, EJ not). Where the Bills blew it was not being more aggressive in a buyers market in FA. They let early season weaknesses on the OL and in the secondary compound their self-inflicted decline at the QB position. They made some good moves.....players that Pettine worked wonders for......but they simply didn't do as much as they should have and ended up sitting on $20M in cap space in the process.
The Big Cat Posted January 3, 2014 Posted January 3, 2014 (edited) Kevin Kolb also didn't work out. I am not a Fitz apologist but if we are judging front office moves, then keep in mind that the Bills had a huge turnaround on defense under Pettine, it is by no means a given that an average season for Fitz might not have gotten the Bills in the playoffs. He won 6 with the one of the worst defenses opposite him. Ultimately, the goal may not be to max out with Fitz.......but there is a school of thought that Kolb was brought in to be the starter so Manuel could work on his game for a year before actually taking NFL snaps. If you believe that, the worst move of all was swapping out Kolb for Fitz. It's also very important to remember that the reality is that the Bills really made VERY FEW acquisitions with regard to primary personnel. They added Hughes, Lawson, Branch and Legursky in FA. Four guys who were reserves elsewhere and none of them was actually an everydown player for the team. Hughes and Lawson in essence formed a platoon for one position. They added a lot of new snaps in the draft, but everybody drafts and the Bills had self-inflicted holes to fill whether those players were ready or not(Kiko ready, EJ not). Where the Bills blew it was not being more aggressive in a buyers market in FA. They let early season weaknesses on the OL and in the secondary compound their self-inflicted decline at the QB position. They made some good moves.....players that Pettine worked wonders for......but they simply didn't do as much as they should have and ended up sitting on $20M in cap space in the process. I had difficulty getting past your egregiously cherry-picked first sentence. Also: why do you keep insisting Hughes and Lawson played the same position? One always had his hand in the dirt, one never did. Edited January 3, 2014 by The Big Cat
GG Posted January 3, 2014 Posted January 3, 2014 I had difficulty getting past your egregiously cherry-picked first sentence. Also: why do you keep insisting Hughes and Lawson played the same position? One always had his hand in the dirt, one never did. How was that cherry picked? Settling on Kolb as the defacto QB should be put on the front office. Buddy submarined the Bills off season when he threw Fitz under the bus in the prior November. It was known that this draft didn't have a single NFL ready QB. So the lack of planning by the front office to manage the most important position was questionable in the spring, and appalling in retrospect.
San Jose Bills Fan Posted January 4, 2014 Posted January 4, 2014 I think it's pointless to say that the Bills should have retained Fitz. I thought it was pretty clear that Fitz had no desire to return after the Nix-Dominick phone call.
BADOLBILZ Posted January 4, 2014 Posted January 4, 2014 I had difficulty getting past your egregiously cherry-picked first sentence. Also: why do you keep insisting Hughes and Lawson played the same position? One always had his hand in the dirt, one never did. Because they were both situational OLB's opposite Mario Williams. Lawson played traditional run downs and had different responsibilities. Hughes was usually just used as a pass rusher. When Lawson was hurt, Hughes played most of Lawson's snaps. Why would there be any argument on this? Add the snaps of Mario, Lawson and Hughes and you will find that the 3 played 200% of the teams snaps. Divide that by 2 OLB positions.
QCity Posted January 4, 2014 Posted January 4, 2014 I think it's pointless to say that the Bills should have retained Fitz. I thought it was pretty clear that Fitz had no desire to return after the Nix-Dominick phone call. It really didn't matter what Fitz desired, he was under contract and for a hefty sum.
The Big Cat Posted January 4, 2014 Posted January 4, 2014 Because they were both situational OLB's opposite Mario Williams. Lawson played traditional run downs and had different responsibilities. Hughes was usually just used as a pass rusher. When Lawson was hurt, Hughes played most of Lawson's snaps. Why would there be any argument on this? Add the snaps of Mario, Lawson and Hughes and you will find that the 3 played 200% of the teams snaps. Divide that by 2 OLB positions. That's some of the most shameless circular logic I've EVER read. Yowsers, buddy.
Sisyphean Bills Posted January 4, 2014 Posted January 4, 2014 What bothers me the most about the Levitre issue is that this new HC is an ex NFL O lineman, an ex NFL O line coach, an ex NFL OC. A supposed O line guru? Then went "hands on" in the off season, during preseason. Meaning the HC was out there on the field instructing those line players, and the result were two players that were supposedly good enough to start and backup the LG position. Then both were benched and cut after week five and replaced by the backup center, and waiver wire pickups. Doesn't anyone besides myself find it most peculiar that this HC failed in his own area of expertise ? If not for DC Mike Pettine this season could have been more of a disaster then it was, perhaps garnering that #1 overall draft pick. Yes. Several people on this board could've told him how the Colin Brown experiment would go down.
Sisyphean Bills Posted January 4, 2014 Posted January 4, 2014 Oh we returned last year's top receivers, huh? And one of them (Stevie) did precisely what in 2013? Also, you counted CJ twice to make your point. But sure, all our offensive weapons were back! But, the 3 backs were back. CJ, Freddy, and Tashard. (Choice was let go and was snapped up by a playoff team.) Which weapons were gone? Brad Smith? Ruvell Martin? Dave Nelson? Donald Jones retired because of serious health issues. He had 2x the production of the 3 mentioned above combined, but I'm not sure who'd really think he was a serious "weapon". I don't know BC. It seems like a lot of the offensive skills players, other than the entire depth chart at QB, were back.
BADOLBILZ Posted January 4, 2014 Posted January 4, 2014 That's some of the most shameless circular logic I've EVER read. Yowsers, buddy. What is your argument? That's what I thought. BTW, when you are bashing Levitre try to remember that you told us all that you thought that the Bills were going to sign Levitre, Byrd and Dwayne Bowe to long term contracts and that is why they weren't going to waste $1.35M tender on David Nelson. Has anyone ever been that wrong on a take?
San Jose Bills Fan Posted January 4, 2014 Posted January 4, 2014 It really didn't matter what Fitz desired, he was under contract and for a hefty sum. I'm pretty sure the Bills asked him to take a pay cut and that Fitz refused. Others will correct me if I'm wrong. Yes. Several people on this board could've told him how the Colin Brown experiment would go down. I was a bit surprised how much he sucked actually. I remember Brown filled in at center for the last two weeks of 2011 after Eric Wood got injured and the reviews were that he played well.
BuffaloBill Posted January 4, 2014 Posted January 4, 2014 marrone suggests he is happy with the G depth on the roster. Still you would think it wise for the Bills to look at FA's or to take someone in mid rounds of the draft.
RuntheDamnBall Posted January 4, 2014 Posted January 4, 2014 It's Alex Marvez but whatever, dude. Welcome to TBD. You'll fit right in. Every player on the Bills ought to get $9M a year because Ralph is cheap. Oh good, the return of this argument that no one has made, ever.
San Jose Bills Fan Posted January 4, 2014 Posted January 4, 2014 It's worth mentioning here the draft status of the 5 guards who were named All Pro: Of the two guards that were first team All Pro, Louis Vaszquez and Evan Mathis were 3rd rounders. Of the 2nd team All Pros, Josh Sitton and Jahri Evans were 4th rounders. Logan Mankins was a first rounder. FWIW.
PromoTheRobot Posted January 4, 2014 Posted January 4, 2014 Oh good, the return of this argument that no one has made, ever. Name a Bills free agent that we didn't want resigned at whatever amount the player was asking for?
QCity Posted January 4, 2014 Posted January 4, 2014 I'm pretty sure the Bills asked him to take a pay cut and that Fitz refused. Oh I agree and will guarantee he refused, but it had nothing to do with that phone call. There was no way in hell Fitz was going to tear up a $59M contract with $24M guaranteed. His agent probably has that thing framed on his wall. Why not keep that guaranteed money and make an extra $6.5M in Tennessee doing the same thing he would be doing here? The way Fitz worked the system you would think he was a Harvard economics major or something. Good for him, good guy, sub-par arm.
San Jose Bills Fan Posted January 4, 2014 Posted January 4, 2014 Oh I agree and will guarantee he refused, but it had nothing to do with that phone call. There was no way in hell Fitz was going to tear up a $59M contract with $24M guaranteed. His agent probably has that thing framed on his wall. Why not keep that guaranteed money and make an extra $6.5M in Tennessee doing the same thing he would be doing here? The way Fitz worked the system you would think he was a Harvard economics major or something. Good for him, good guy, sub-par arm. Agreed. And we were discussing the silliness of wishing that the Bills would have "retained" Fitz instead of getting Kolb. It was never a plausible scenario IMO.
Bill from NYC Posted January 4, 2014 Posted January 4, 2014 Name a Bills free agent that we didn't want resigned at whatever amount the player was asking for? Donte Whitner.
RuntheDamnBall Posted January 4, 2014 Posted January 4, 2014 Name a Bills free agent that we didn't want resigned at whatever amount the player was asking for? Probably anyone besides Byrd and Levitre? Whitner? When you don't have much of quality entering the free agent market, you don't want to lose the few pieces that are actually good. McKelvin re-signed so quickly that we weren't able to hash it out over his value, but he signed a team-friendly deal. Guys like Wood and Williams did the same. They're good team players, we like them. Guys who try to get what the market will bear are bad guys and we should hate them, unless they re-sign and then they are good guys again. Look, OBD has said that you need to keep your own. The people you support believe this. Just because they can't come to terms doesn't mean they don't believe it. I don't think Levitre was worth what he got, and that's fine. If they were prepared to let him go, though, that does mean they should have had a better backup plan. No one on earth is saying throw $9MM a year at everyone -- just, maybe, two players. So can we cut it with the straw man arguments? This ain't the first time.
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