Wayne Cubed Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 No one is saying that. Marrone decides which 22 players start on opening day. It's a bit unsettling for many that Marrone could make such a huge error in judgement on a player (Colin Brown) from his previous area of expertise. He made an error in judgement on Colin Brown. What about all the correct personnel decisions he's made? Like Manny Lawson or Jerry Hughes or Alan Branch. Is that because it's not his "area of expertise" he doesn't get credit for those decisions? I'd even add Frank Summers to the list of positive additions to the team. The Bills made some decisions regarding players this season for the team. A bunch of them worked, I'd say like 95%, and 1 of them didn't. If the Bills can do that same thing this offseason the team will be in a better place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewildrabbit Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 (edited) He made an error in judgement on Colin Brown. What about all the correct personnel decisions he's made? Like Manny Lawson or Jerry Hughes or Alan Branch. Is that because it's not his "area of expertise" he doesn't get credit for those decisions? I'd even add Frank Summers to the list of positive additions to the team. The Bills made some decisions regarding players this season for the team. A bunch of them worked, I'd say like 95%, and 1 of them didn't. If the Bills can do that same thing this offseason the team will be in a better place. I would say that Pettine made the judgments for the defense, as that is his area of expertise. "Marrone played offensive line and coached that unit with the New York Jets when Curtis Martin led the league in rushing. Marrone has been a hands-on O-line instructor throughout the summer. "It's a position I coached for a very long time," Marrone said. "I'm not as sold as much on the continuity factor than what other people may be. That has never been my type of philosophy. "You want the five best players out there, and it's my job to get them ready during the week. It's my job to get them ready during the season, to make sure they have the continuity." http://blogs.buffalo...ed-concept.html http://thelcn.com/20...A.LeQ09rgs.dpbs What a catastrophic failure there was at LG when the replacement for Levite wasn't just bad at his job. He graded as the very worst player in the entire NFL thru week 5, as both Colin Brown and his backup Sam Young were both benched and released. Good thing GM Doug Whaley brought in Doug Legursky to be the back up center because he took over at LG, and he also sucked at it. But was miles better then the players he replaced. Clearly some fans are taken affront to these facts pointed out. Sorry guys, but it really concerns me that a coach with so much experience in his field of work could fail so miserably in his area of expertise. This also sheds some light on the offensive coordinator as well, and his ability to also judge talent on his side of the ball. This wasn't the only problem with the offense as the backup QB was also an issue, as is the current special teams coach. Since we are on the subject of the Bills OG's.... "8. Erik Pears ($2.8 million). A steady performer in each of his last two seasons, the 12th-highest paid player on the roster didn't have a good season for the Bills in 2013. Despite playing every offensive snap, his cap figure was way too high for a guy getting beat as consistently as he did." http://www.buffaloru...t-roster-values Edited January 3, 2014 by FeartheLosing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Cubed Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 I would say that Pettine made the judgments for the defense, as that is his area of expertise. "Marrone played offensive line and coached that unit with the New York Jets when Curtis Martin led the league in rushing. Marrone has been a hands-on O-line instructor throughout the summer. "It's a position I coached for a very long time," Marrone said. "I'm not as sold as much on the continuity factor than what other people may be. That has never been my type of philosophy. "You want the five best players out there, and it's my job to get them ready during the week. It's my job to get them ready during the season, to make sure they have the continuity." http://blogs.buffalo...ed-concept.html http://thelcn.com/20...A.LeQ09rgs.dpbs What a catastrophic failure there was at LG when the replacement for Levite wasn't just bad at his job. He graded as the very worst player in the entire NFL thru week 5, as both Colin Brown and his backup Sam Young were both benched and released. Good thing GM Doug Whaley brought in Doug Legursky to be the back up center because he took over at LG, and he also sucked at it. But was miles better then the players he replaced. Clearly some fans are taken affront to these facts pointed out. Sorry guys, but it really concerns me that a coach with so much experience in his field of work could fail so miserably in his area of expertise. This also sheds some light on the offensive coordinator as well, and his ability to also judge talent on his side of the ball. This wasn't the only problem with the offense as the backup QB was also an issue, as is the current special teams coach. Since we are on the subject of the Bills OG's.... "8. Erik Pears ($2.8 million). A steady performer in each of his last two seasons, the 12th-highest paid player on the roster didn't have a good season for the Bills in 2013. Despite playing every offensive snap, his cap figure was way too high for a guy getting beat as consistently as he did." http://www.buffaloru...t-roster-values So the Head Coach of the team had no say.... that's an interesting thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 So the Head Coach of the team had no say.... that's an interesting thought. I also find it interesting that the head coach gets the blame for a position that doesn't perform well, but doesn't get the credit for a position that does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QCity Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 He made an error in judgement on Colin Brown. What about all the correct personnel decisions he's made? Like Manny Lawson or Jerry Hughes or Alan Branch. Is that because it's not his "area of expertise" he doesn't get credit for those decisions? I'd even add Frank Summers to the list of positive additions to the team. The Bills made some decisions regarding players this season for the team. A bunch of them worked, I'd say like 95%, and 1 of them didn't. If the Bills can do that same thing this offseason the team will be in a better place. I never said that, overly defensive much? I didn't think I would have to list every correct personnel decision he's made, especially in a thread titled "Levitre." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Cubed Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 I never said that, overly defensive much? I didn't think I would have to list every correct personnel decision he's made, especially in a thread titled "Levitre." Apologies if it seemed like I was aiming at you, just was adding more to the point with regards to your 22 players comment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLFan Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 Even after the struggles at LG, I do not believe letting Levitre walk at that ridiculous price was a mistake. The Bills did place to much faith in the players they had for that position, but it doe not mean letting Levitre was a mistake. Far from it. People need to move on from the late, "great" Levitre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 I also find it interesting that the head coach gets the blame for a position that doesn't perform well, but doesn't get the credit for a position that does. Why does it have to be the polar opposite? Of course Marrone & the organization should get credit for hiring Pettine and letting him run the defense. That plan worked very well. What's confounding though is that the area that was supposed to be Marrone's strength - offense & the line in particular, performed poorly. That's the point. It's the opposite of what we got with Gailey. He was awful with his defensive moves, but at least he excelled in his area of expertise. That's all being asked of Marrone. If you are an OL guru, then prove it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 You just entered the OBD Spin Zone! It's Alex Marvez but whatever, dude. Welcome to TBD. You'll fit right in. Every player on the Bills ought to get $9M a year because Ralph is cheap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 Why does it have to be the polar opposite? Of course Marrone & the organization should get credit for hiring Pettine and letting him run the defense. That plan worked very well. What's confounding though is that the area that was supposed to be Marrone's strength - offense & the line in particular, performed poorly. That's the point. It's the opposite of what we got with Gailey. He was awful with his defensive moves, but at least he excelled in his area of expertise. That's all being asked of Marrone. If you are an OL guru, then prove it. I never said it does; what I said is that he seems to get the blame for the areas that didn't perform well without the credit for the ones that did. For the record, the OL did not perform poorly; they were average. It can certainly seem as though they were poor compared with the job they did the last 2 years, so I understand the sentiment. The OL was actually middle-of-the-pack if you look at metrics like Adjusted Line Yards (Football Outsiders) and Power Ranking: http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol NFL.com's OL stats say the same when you look at things like Power Success and YPC: http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&offensiveStatisticCategory=OFFENSIVE_LINE&role=TM&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-p=1&d-447263-s=RUSHING_TOTAL_AVERAGE_YDS The QBs took a lot of hits, which is an area of concern. I did notice that much of that was QB related, as both Manuel and Lewis tended to get themselves in trouble even when the protection was solid (which certainly wasn't all of the time, don't get me wrong). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 For the record, the OL did not perform poorly; they were average. It can certainly seem as though they were poor compared with the job they did the last 2 years, so I understand the sentiment. The OL was actually middle-of-the-pack if you look at metrics like Adjusted Line Yards (Football Outsiders) and Power Ranking: And that's the rub about this franchise that's so frustrating, A perennial step forward and one step back. They improved the defense, but O and ST took a step back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewildrabbit Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 So the Head Coach of the team had no say.... that's an interesting thought. Where exactly did I say that? The HC is accountable for every player on the roster, as well as all the coaches under him. You pointed out 3 players on the defensive side of the ball, and all I did was point out that, that is clearly the DC's area of expertise. What my point was, is not only did Marrone fail in his area of expertise (offense, specifically O line player, coach, OC) on the starting replacement for LG Andy Levitre, he also failed with the backup player on the roster. Then both the RG & center didn't play as well in 2013 as the both did in 2012. Marrone was even "hands on" out there on the field coaching those players! If this type of stuff doesn't give you pause for concern like it does for me. Then more power to you as I can't overlook it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prissythecat Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 Where exactly did I say that? The HC is accountable for every player on the roster, as well as all the coaches under him. You pointed out 3 players on the defensive side of the ball, and all I did was point out that, that is clearly the DC's area of expertise. What my point was, is not only did Marrone fail in his area of expertise (offense, specifically O line player, coach, OC) on the starting replacement for LG Andy Levitre, he also failed with the backup player on the roster. Then both the RG & center didn't play as well in 2013 as the both did in 2012. Marrone was even "hands on" out there on the field coaching those players! If this type of stuff doesn't give you pause for concern like it does for me. Then more power to you as I can't overlook it. Hmmm. Isn't it the GM that is responsible for filling roster spots? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubs Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 Levitre is long gone so it really doesn't matter. But, it's a 50/50 move. Both sides of the argument made sense. He wasn't worth that much money and we didn't find a good replacement. Grade B-/C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Schick Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 Levitre is long gone so it really doesn't matter. But, it's a 50/50 move. Both sides of the argument made sense. He wasn't worth that much money and we didn't find a good replacement. Grade B-/C Some real good arguments on both sides. I guess it comes down to whether or not this team is going the right way. I think our biggest disadvantage is how many variables we are dealing with: Ownership, GM, coaching staff, QB, roster depth, etc. Even though that last loss to the Pats really sucked, I lean toward a feeling that things are in fact going the right way. Big changes were made this year. Many of them worked out, which is all you can reasonably hope for. But until we win 9+ games a year, it's hard to bang the drum too loud about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QCity Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 Apologies if it seemed like I was aiming at you, just was adding more to the point with regards to your 22 players comment. No worries. I have a theory that this board can't sustain any thread about Levitre without it blowing up. And to go slightly off topic again, for the record I like 90% of the personnel decisions Marrone has made this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 And that's the rub about this franchise that's so frustrating, A perennial step forward and one step back. They improved the defense, but O and ST took a step back. For the better part of the last 14 years, that's been the case. I think it's early to say that'll be the chronic result from the Whaley/Marrone regime, as I think there's potential for the D to take another big step next year, and I don't expect the offense to get worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heitz Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 Even after the struggles at LG, I do not believe letting Levitre walk at that ridiculous price was a mistake. The Bills did place to much faith in the players they had for that position, but it doe not mean letting Levitre was a mistake. Far from it. People need to move on from the late, "great" Levitre. Well said. The one question that we'll probably never really know is DID the Bills have faith in the players they had? Maybe they felt that Andy was injured and knew that it would be crazy to pay him a boatload of cash, so they let him walk. Just because they put Colin Brown in, doesn't mean they loved (or even really liked) him - but no coach is going to say "our LG sucks, but hey he's what we have!" even if it's the truth! Hell, Belichick just half mumbles answers when asked about his team... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 Well said. The one question that we'll probably never really know is DID the Bills have faith in the players they had? Maybe they felt that Andy was injured and knew that it would be crazy to pay him a boatload of cash, so they let him walk. Just because they put Colin Brown in, doesn't mean they loved (or even really liked) him - but no coach is going to say "our LG sucks, but hey he's what we have!" even if it's the truth! Hell, Belichick just half mumbles answers when asked about his team... Now that everyone has accepted the notion that Levitre should NOT have been kept for the dollar he demanded, it's interesting to see some fans leap frog that point to find something else to nitpick about. In this case, Levitre's replacement...the !@#$ing LG position, of all things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewildrabbit Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 Hmmm. Isn't it the GM that is responsible for filling roster spots? He is, for as you stated in "filling" the roster. This speaks more to me about the coaching then it does the GM. Once the roster is filled its up to the coaches to figure out which are the starters and which are the back ups. If a player, and his back up aren't going to get the job done then the coaching staff has the entire pre season to properly evaluate what talent is on the roster. If a player is not up to acceptability then changes should have been before the season started. As the team has an O line coach, and offensive coordinator, a head coach it is difficult for me to understand how 3 different coaches had no clue that this player would grade as the very worst player in the NFL after 5 weeks, but he did! I can only suppose this is what happens with bad teams. This is exactly the very same mistake that Chan Gailey made in 2010 with FA RT Cornell Green, and we all know what the end result with Gailey was. . Anyway, Lets hope the Bills upgrade the guard positions properly this off season as I think it will help the entire offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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