Ed_Formerly_of_Roch Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 Wow, you really look smart pointing that out now! The Cat's point was they signed a number of other guys in which on his list worked out well. So they expected similar results here. How many of the players on that list last April were expected to do even half as well as they ended up doing? Hughes was so bad the Colts traded a #1 away as they expected nothing from him. But we got ten sacks from him. So as likely as Hughes had ten sacks either Brown or Legursky could have played just as well. As far as QB goes, they used A #1 draft pick on one, signed a guy who two years ago everyone was talking about as an up and coming star and a free agent who many people in August on the board were arguing he should be the starter. I'm sure much of the thought process that went into who the Bill's did sign at QB was also that since they just invested a #1 pick on a QB you also don't want to have too much of a distraction either with regards to who should start. Calling Brown or Legursky legit replacements for LG is laughable. Just like bringing the QBs into this discussion. Perhaps Bills wouldn't need to have a casting call for QBs in late August if they managed the QB position better at the outset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 Here's another narrative widely pushed attempting to demonstrate separation from the Nix years. How about of the 22-25 starters/players with significant PT from 2012, how many rolled over into 2013? I can think already of several who started and played significant minutes from one year to the next. SJ, CJ, FJ, Graham, Chandler, Wood, Urbik, Glenn, Pears. Mario, KW, Dareus, Gilmore, Byrd, AW, McKelvin. Not quite 50% turnover. Over the past 8 seasons, the Bills have not built a roster, using the draft primarily to replace departed veterans. Perhaps that's changing, but we'll know if their direction changes if Byrd is retained. If not, another self-made hole needs to be filled. Calling Byrd a self-made hole is one of your many over-simplified twists to rag on the franchise. I notice you tend only to come around at certain times of year and remain conspicuously absent when there's less to complain about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 You just entered the OBD Spin Zone! Exactly. Levitre is having his hip scoped not getting an artificial hip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 Calling Byrd a self-made hole is one of your many over-simplified twists to rag on the franchise. I notice you tend only to come around at certain times of year and remain conspicuously absent when there's less to complain about. Forgive me. I have trouble not criticizing a franchise when it's on rebuild 2 (or 1B if that's your perspective) in the past 4 seasons and has managed to go 22-42 during that time. Ironically, your point about me critiquing should be paralleled with your penchant for being an unabashed homer unwilling to ever say anything negative about a team which can't win 35% of their games in the past 4 seasons. Check my posting history if you'd like to research the point you made about my availability. That's simply throwing something against the wall and hoping it sticks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 Which members of the current regime managed Fitz/Thigpen? Do you mean to continue the narrative that Tavaris Jackson belongs in the NFL? In the first you should ask the man who replaced John Guy s the director of pro player personnel. I forget who that was... On the second, Tarvaris has more of an NFL shelf life than Kevin Kolb. But you knew that. Wow, you really look smart pointing that out now! The Cat's point was they signed a number of other guys in which on his list worked out well. So they expected similar results here. How many of the players on that list last April were expected to do even half as well as they ended up doing? Hughes was so bad the Colts traded a #1 away as they expected nothing from him. But we got ten sacks from him. So as likely as Hughes had ten sacks either Brown or Legursky could have played just as well. As far as QB goes, they used A #1 draft pick on one, signed a guy who two years ago everyone was talking about as an up and coming star and a free agent who many people in August on the board were arguing he should be the starter. I'm sure much of the thought process that went into who the Bill's did sign at QB was also that since they just invested a #1 pick on a QB you also don't want to have too much of a distraction either with regards to who should start. Are you really comparing two former first round picks and a high second round pick to two UDFAs and think that the expectations should be the same? One is not like the other. The three defenders had prior success in the league, while the hoped for OLs did not. Hope is not a strategy. There are at least three losses that can be pinned to poor QB and LG play. That's how this team defies the odds and goes winless over a decade. One step forward and one step back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 (edited) Calling Brown or Legursky legit replacements for LG is laughable. Just like bringing the QBs into this discussion. Perhaps Bills wouldn't need to have a casting call for QBs in late August if they managed the QB position better at the outset. [ Yeah, the turnover argument is another case of heavy rotation from the spin department. The Bills returned 4 of their 5 starting OL. The Bills returned their top 3 pass catchers from 2012. Their top 3 rushers returned. Their primary 2 TE's didn't change. Branch was the only significant addition to the DL and he was a reserve when the season started. 5 of the 7 regular DB's were holdovers....including two former #1 picks and two former #2 picks......Leonhard and Robey were the exceptions. They had change at LB switching to more 3-3 and 3-4 fronts from a base 4-3......but that was about the only area where there wasn't a lot of carryover snaps. Most of the turnover was depth..........which happened to be a weakness of the team. Edited January 2, 2014 by BADOLBEELZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Romes Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 Too bad we didn't pony up a little bit to keep Rhinehart. But I guess Rhinehart isn't losing too much sleep over it, relaxing in his beachfront condo in La Jolla, getting ready to play in the playoffs this weekend... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 (edited) [ Yeah, the turnover argument is another case of heavy rotation from the spin department. The Bills returned 4 of their 5 starting OL. The Bills returned their top 3 pass catchers from 2012. Their top 3 rushers returned. Their primary 2 TE's didn't change. Branch was the only significant addition to the DL and he was a reserve when the season started. 5 of the 7 regular DB's were holdovers....including two former #1 picks and two former #2 picks......Leonhard and Robey were the exceptions. They had change at LB switching to more 3-3 and 3-4 fronts from a base 4-3......but that was about the only area where there wasn't a lot of carryover snaps. Most of the turnover was depth..........which happened to be a weakness of the team. Oh we returned last year's top receivers, huh? And one of them (Stevie) did precisely what in 2013? Also, you counted CJ twice to make your point. But sure, all our offensive weapons were back! Yet you'll gladly inform us all in other threads that without a QB, a team is doomed to be forgotten. You also gloss over the fact that NONE of our returning linebackers made a hill of beans difference this year, and you conveniently left 10-sack Jerry Hughes off your list of significant additions to the DL. Only the foolish optimists spin, right? Edited January 2, 2014 by The Big Cat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 Oh we returned last year's top receivers, huh? And one of them (Stevie) did precisely what in 2013? Also, you counted CJ twice to make your point. But sure, all our offensive weapons were back! Yet you'll gladly inform us all in other threads that without a QB, a team is doomed to be forgotten. You also gloss over the fact that NONE of our returning linebackers made a hill of beans difference this year, and you conveniently left 10-sack Jerry Hughes off your list of significant additions to the DL. Only the foolish optimists spin, right? Ok how about this.......the Bills returned 5 of their 6 leading pass receivers from 2012.....including Jackson and Spiller. Result..........those 5 guys....including Jackson and Spiller....were still 5 of the 6 leading pass receivers in 2013. Robert Woods was the new guy. He had almost as many receptions in 2013 as the man he replaced.........Donald Jones......did in 2012. Almost. I specifically acknowledged the change at LB. Hughes is part of the LB corps. He, Lawson and Mario accounted for almost EXACTLY 100% of the Bills OLB snaps this season. And yes, the QB situation was the biggest problem. The production dipped from mid 20's to about 30th. That remains the problem.......not the "turnover". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewildrabbit Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 In the first you should ask the man who replaced John Guy s the director of pro player personnel. I forget who that was... On the second, Tarvaris has more of an NFL shelf life than Kevin Kolb. But you knew that. Are you really comparing two former first round picks and a high second round pick to two UDFAs and think that the expectations should be the same? One is not like the other. The three defenders had prior success in the league, while the hoped for OLs did not. Hope is not a strategy. There are at least three losses that can be pinned to poor QB and LG play. That's how this team defies the odds and goes winless over a decade. One step forward and one step back. One step forward, and two steps back. Not to mention that two losses can be attributed directly to very bad special teams play, against Cleveland & New England, IMO. The Bills ranked 9th in special teams in 2012, and went to 30th this year. What bothers me the most about the Levitre issue is that this new HC is an ex NFL O lineman, an ex NFL O line coach, an ex NFL OC. A supposed O line guru? Then went "hands on" in the off season, during preseason. Meaning the HC was out there on the field instructing those line players, and the result were two players that were supposedly good enough to start and backup the LG position. Then both were benched and cut after week five and replaced by the backup center, and waiver wire pickups. Doesn't anyone besides myself find it most peculiar that this HC failed in his own area of expertise ? If not for DC Mike Pettine this season could have been more of a disaster then it was, perhaps garnering that #1 overall draft pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gray Beard Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 What bothers me the most about the Levitre issue is that this new HC is an ex NFL O lineman, an ex NFL O line coach, an ex NFL OC. A supposed O line guru? Then went "hands on" in the off season, during preseason. Meaning the HC was out there on the field instructing those line players, and the result were two players that were supposedly good enough to start and backup the LG position. Then both were benched and cut after week five and replaced by the backup center, and waiver wire pickups. Doesn't anyone besides myself find it most peculiar that this HC failed in his own area of expertise ? If not for DC Mike Pettine this season could have been more of a disaster then it was, perhaps garnering that #1 overall draft pick. Yes. Something I never understood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 So now Marrone was our OLine coach? Because he ran some drills with the team in camp, including taking a few snaps at center? Really? Are people here really delusional enough to think that Marrone spent any appreciable time and effort as a position coach? Can't get this comedy at home. Keep 'em coming folks. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QCity Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 So now Marrone was our OLine coach? Because he ran some drills with the team in camp, including taking a few snaps at center? Really? Are people here really delusional enough to think that Marrone spent any appreciable time and effort as a position coach? Can't get this comedy at home. Keep 'em coming folks. GO BILLS!!! No one is saying that. Marrone decides which 22 players start on opening day. It's a bit unsettling for many that Marrone could make such a huge error in judgement on a player (Colin Brown) from his previous area of expertise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 Agreed. What's even more asinine, however, is that the Bills had no plan for replacing Levitre. They let Chad Reinhabfoshv walk and didn't draft an OL in the draft, instead drafting 2 safeties that barely even saw the field. There were talented players in the draft like Barrett Jones and Brian Schwenke that I was sure the bills would select in those middle rounds. But they did little to address the hole, and the play from that position is evident of that I had me a serious case of Barrett Jones luv. Far as I know, he didn't see the field this year with the Rams. Brian Schwenke played C for the Titans for 9 games - I don't know if he was part of the jailbreak that durn near got Fitzy flattened. It is possible that playing next to Wood, or in between Wood and Glenn, is one reason Levitre looked good on the Bills and playing next to Schwenke is one reason Levitre looked bad this year. I too was very disappointed that the Bills didn't take more action to fill the LG spot and that they let Rhinehart go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 No one is saying that. Marrone decides which 22 players start on opening day. It's a bit unsettling for many that Marrone could make such a huge error in judgement on a player (Colin Brown) from his previous area of expertise. That personnel decision wasn't made in a vacuum. I'd have more respect if people would just say "Marrone's a clueless dumbschit as a headcoach" and leave it at that. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 That personnel decision wasn't made in a vacuum. Maybe it was made BY a vacuum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 .... What's even more asinine, however, is that the Bills had no plan for replacing Levitre..... I think that they definitely did have a plan.....but the plan failed miserably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLynchTrain Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 Thought I'd add this to the discussion - for what it's worth PFF ranks Levitre cumulatively as the 13th best guard - they said he was the 30th ranked pass blocker and 6th ranked rush blocker. My opinion, we should have never drafted a guard as high as the second round in the first place. Be that as it may, we did and he turned out to be a serviceable, consistent and un-injured player for the Bills, three things we've mostly lacked the last 15 years. The bills let him walk, which was probably a good idea at the time, but remember they had every opportunity to sign him up the year before he hit the open market. Also I cry foul with the Alex Marvez - Levitre didn't miss a game when he was here and never showed up on an injury report - we're hearing about "long term concerns" now? Sounds like a reporter saying something to get people talking about her, just like we're doing now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 Thought I'd add this to the discussion - for what it's worth PFF ranks Levitre cumulatively as the 13th best guard - they said he was the 30th ranked pass blocker and 6th ranked rush blocker. My opinion, we should have never drafted a guard as high as the second round in the first place. Be that as it may, we did and he turned out to be a serviceable, consistent and un-injured player for the Bills, three things we've mostly lacked the last 15 years. The bills let him walk, which was probably a good idea at the time, but remember they had every opportunity to sign him up the year before he hit the open market. Also I cry foul with the Alex Marvez - Levitre didn't miss a game when he was here and never showed up on an injury report - we're hearing about "long term concerns" now? Sounds like a reporter saying something to get people talking about her, just like we're doing now. Last year, PFF ranked him the best pass blocking G and the 39th ranked run blocker. That tells me all I need to know about PFF. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bufcomments Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 Too bad we didn't pony up a little bit to keep Rhinehart. But I guess Rhinehart isn't losing too much sleep over it, relaxing in his beachfront condo in La Jolla, getting ready to play in the playoffs this weekend... with his money he prolly on Coronado as well. Man I miss San Diego, did my military time out there... But I agree Rhinehart was the one we should have gave some money to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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