thewildrabbit Posted January 2, 2014 Posted January 2, 2014 (edited) I saw the interview and didn't understand Marrone to be saying definitively that Crossman wouldn't be fired. But maybe it was my own hope shading my interpretation of his comments. I don't get the thing about the lack of core ST players. McKelvin is a core player. His PR average was awesome in 2011 and 2012. It sucked last year under Crossman. The core ST player is fine. The ST coach is the problem. 99.9% of the fans have acknowledged that, and the fact that stats say 30th. So they actually got worse from 9th in 2012 to 30th in 2013 with the same core players. Then notice Crossman was the ST coach with Detroit in 2010 & 2012 and guess what...the Lions ranked 30th in 2012, 29th in 2011. This guy sucks. http://www.footballo...om/stats/teamst The problem is Crossman is a "friend" of Marrone, so this will be another George Edwards type debacle only with special teams instead of the defense. Ultimately this will be Marrone's own undoing. EDIT: does anyone else remember the Thursday night game against Cleveland where the Browns PR set a franchise record for 179 yards on punt returns by Travis Benjamin (who?). Remember the 79 yard punt return for a TD. So, Marrone blamed the loss on the punter Shawn Powell and released him. One could easily surmise that special teams helped cause two losses this season against Cleveland and New England. Edited January 2, 2014 by FeartheLosing
CodeMonkey Posted January 2, 2014 Posted January 2, 2014 So what do you guys think? Will Marrone make any more changes to his staff? Any more changes? How about any changes, period. Canning a WR coach not for performance, but philosophical reasons really isn't a change worth noting. And no, I do not expect any [more] changes in the coaching staff initiated by Marrone,
Flip Johnson Posted January 2, 2014 Posted January 2, 2014 Before everyone summarily dismisses the "core" concept I think it should be discussed and evaluated. Who are these talented, underachieving STers that Crossman is unable to coach and motivate? Easley was great this year - he is a great athlete and a physical specimen who could be a high level WR if he could actually catch and get open. Because he can't, we have a great athlete playing balls out on ST to maintain his livelihood. Other than Easley, who do we have that should be a great STer? Does anyone other than Garrett Sanborn have a track record of being an effective STer? McKelvin had a huge drop off, but it cannot be easy to be in pass coverage every down, then run down the field to catch and return a punt. He was barely getting on the field for anything but PRs for much of 2012.
4merper4mer Posted January 2, 2014 Posted January 2, 2014 Before everyone summarily dismisses the "core" concept I think it should be discussed and evaluated. Who are these talented, underachieving STers that Crossman is unable to coach and motivate? Easley was great this year - he is a great athlete and a physical specimen who could be a high level WR if he could actually catch and get open. Because he can't, we have a great athlete playing balls out on ST to maintain his livelihood. Other than Easley, who do we have that should be a great STer? Does anyone other than Garrett Sanborn have a track record of being an effective STer? McKelvin had a huge drop off, but it cannot be easy to be in pass coverage every down, then run down the field to catch and return a punt. He was barely getting on the field for anything but PRs for much of 2012. Goodwin has KR skills that are elite. It is hard to tell when he is taking a knee or not in there. Is Greggo's Marrone's idea to sign 9 FA STers or perhaps get a new coach?
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted January 2, 2014 Posted January 2, 2014 OH my God, that is funny! I love that one episode where he has a project that he knows nothing about and he sings the song DOWNTOWN with JERRY. Everything happens downtown! Can you just picture Ralph telling our analytics guy that all the answers to his problems are downtown? Serious spoof material here.
Kirby Jackson Posted January 2, 2014 Posted January 2, 2014 Before everyone summarily dismisses the "core" concept I think it should be discussed and evaluated. Who are these talented, underachieving STers that Crossman is unable to coach and motivate? Easley was great this year - he is a great athlete and a physical specimen who could be a high level WR if he could actually catch and get open. Because he can't, we have a great athlete playing balls out on ST to maintain his livelihood. Other than Easley, who do we have that should be a great STer? Does anyone other than Garrett Sanborn have a track record of being an effective STer? McKelvin had a huge drop off, but it cannot be easy to be in pass coverage every down, then run down the field to catch and return a punt. He was barely getting on the field for anything but PRs for much of 2012. Looks like we found the other guy that thinks Crossman deserves his job (unless of course, Flip Johnson is the alter-ego of Douglas Marrone)? Has anyone ever seen them in the same place? hmmm
reddogblitz Posted January 3, 2014 Posted January 3, 2014 One could easily surmise that special teams helped cause two losses this season against Cleveland and New England. I'd also toss in the Cincinnati game. In OT we punted to them and they ran it back to the 20. Not the whole cause for the loss, but a contributor nonetheless.
3rdand12 Posted January 3, 2014 Posted January 3, 2014 If Marrone keeps Crosman . And the team is not markedly improved next season Doug will have hung his hat up . Maybe he feels that some attention to details and his hand in the matter will prop up Danny. Hell if i know. But for fun lets try two things. Lets list what we might consider core ST players beyond returners. I have not given this enough thought but one comes to mind. M.Easely has been a stud and found a niche. i kept seeing him hearing his number , and the guy has great stats. awesome really Lets see now.beyond that.... Summers ? maybe yes Wingo. no reps Hogan? i only noticed the miss against Blount Moats Bradham not sure who else might be significant. Maybe this is a real problem. And i would blame that on rookies and new faces. And of course new system with said rookies and new faces. Did i just defend something ? maybe 2 Who is out there to replace danny crosman ? Honestly , someone who might take the coaching position ? Maybe the reason we have Danny , for better or worse , is lack of options. I look forward to you kids retorts to my query
San Jose Bills Fan Posted January 3, 2014 Posted January 3, 2014 What about the analytics guy? Seems like a waste. :lol: You mean the guy who was hired 2 months ago? Before everyone summarily dismisses the "core" concept I think it should be discussed and evaluated. Who are these talented, underachieving STers that Crossman is unable to coach and motivate? Easley was great this year - he is a great athlete and a physical specimen who could be a high level WR if he could actually catch and get open. Because he can't, we have a great athlete playing balls out on ST to maintain his livelihood. Other than Easley, who do we have that should be a great STer? Does anyone other than Garrett Sanborn have a track record of being an effective STer? McKelvin had a huge drop off, but it cannot be easy to be in pass coverage every down, then run down the field to catch and return a punt. He was barely getting on the field for anything but PRs for much of 2012. I think what Marrone was saying was b.s. He and Whaley assembled the roster. By absolving Crossman of blame by pointing the finger at the players, he's indirectly pointing the finger at himself and Whaley. I really hate to say it but while this doesn't stink as much as the Wade Phillips-Ronnie Brown fiasco, it has a similar smell.
Kirby Jackson Posted January 3, 2014 Posted January 3, 2014 I really hate to say it but while this doesn't stink as much as the Wade Phillips-Ronnie Brown fiasco, it has a similar smell. Ronnie Jones. Ronnie Brown was the 2nd overall pick that had an average career. Ronnie Jones was the mulleted ST coach that was good friends with former wrestling manager Paul Bearer (aka Wade Phillips).
BUNCH OF MULARKEY Posted January 3, 2014 Posted January 3, 2014 The lockers have been cleaned out. Coaches and players are getting off planes reuniting with family. Golf clubs are being shined. Another disappointing season in the books. One bills drive is dark and quiet, with one exception. On the third floor in a tiny cubicle there's a glow of an IBM think pad with little man with thick horned rimmed glasses and an egg shaped cranium. That little man is none other than Michael Lyons, head of the newly founded buffalo bills analytical department. You see there's no pictures of wife and kids in michaels cubicle. Just a small sketch of michaels tiger striped kitten, appropriately named "Decimal" which he affectionately refers to as "Dezi". His project of the night, creating a comprehensive spreadsheet on the cost effectiveness relating to using sugar packets in the concession stand condiment table verses twelve ounce sugar dispensing containers. Michael knows Mr. Brandon needs these results by the end of the week. The pressure is enormous. The only break he gets is to prepare a bag of microwave low sodium popcorn. He knows the low sodium popcorn is 7.45 % less likely to cause hypertension. It's going to be a long night. Be sure to check in next week with the Buffalo Bills analytics department. Next week Mr. Lyons will be focusing on the cost effectiveness of purchasing athletic tape in 100 count cartons verses the standard ten pack rolls.
4BillsintheBurgh Posted January 3, 2014 Posted January 3, 2014 :lol: You mean the guy who was hired 2 months ago? I think what Marrone was saying was b.s. He and Whaley assembled the roster. By absolving Crossman of blame by pointing the finger at the players, he's indirectly pointing the finger at himself and Whaley. I really hate to say it but while this doesn't stink as much as the Wade Phillips-Ronnie Brown fiasco, it has a similar smell. Maybe they weren't concerned with special teams abilities when they were building the roster? I saw somewhere on here that there was a lot of turnover on the roster, I think a lot of that was in backups which are normally your St players. I think next year is the make or break season for Danny.
San Jose Bills Fan Posted January 3, 2014 Posted January 3, 2014 Maybe they weren't concerned with special teams abilities when they were building the roster? I saw somewhere on here that there was a lot of turnover on the roster, I think a lot of that was in backups which are normally your St players. I think next year is the make or break season for Danny. Well criticism aside I'm happy to give Marrone another year before I pass any judgement. But this Crossman thing bothers me. It bothered me when he was hired and it bothers me even more now.
4merper4mer Posted January 3, 2014 Posted January 3, 2014 On the third floor in a tiny cubicle there's a glow of an IBM think pad with little man with thick horned rimmed glasses and an egg shaped cranium. Think Pad? IBM sold that part of the business off about 7 years ago. No way does Littman spring for something new like that. I think the dude has a Compaq.
CodeMonkey Posted January 3, 2014 Posted January 3, 2014 Think Pad? IBM sold that part of the business off about 7 years ago. No way does Littman spring for something new like that. I think the dude has a Compaq. No way! Brandon is not cheap! IBM BlueGene/L all the way! The $290,000,000 price tag is a small price to pay to build a winning team!
The Wiz Posted January 3, 2014 Posted January 3, 2014 The lockers have been cleaned out. Coaches and players are getting off planes reuniting with family. Golf clubs are being shined. Another disappointing season in the books. One bills drive is dark and quiet, with one exception. On the third floor in a tiny cubicle there's a glow of an IBM think pad with little man with thick horned rimmed glasses and an egg shaped cranium. That little man is none other than Michael Lyons, head of the newly founded buffalo bills analytical department. You see there's no pictures of wife and kids in michaels cubicle. Just a small sketch of michaels tiger striped kitten, appropriately named "Decimal" which he affectionately refers to as "Dezi". His project of the night, creating a comprehensive spreadsheet on the cost effectiveness relating to using sugar packets in the concession stand condiment table verses twelve ounce sugar dispensing containers. Michael knows Mr. Brandon needs these results by the end of the week. The pressure is enormous. The only break he gets is to prepare a bag of microwave low sodium popcorn. He knows the low sodium popcorn is 7.45 % less likely to cause hypertension. It's going to be a long night. Be sure to check in next week with the Buffalo Bills analytics department. Next week Mr. Lyons will be focusing on the cost effectiveness of purchasing athletic tape in 100 count cartons verses the standard ten pack rolls. Hysterically and tragically probably accurate.
Flip Johnson Posted January 3, 2014 Posted January 3, 2014 I Looks like we found the other guy that thinks Crossman deserves his job (unless of course, Flip Johnson is the alter-ego of Douglas Marrone)? Has anyone ever seen them in the same place? hmmm Haha … I am not a Crossman apologist, just someone who wants evidence to the contrary before dismissing Marrone's viewpoint. It seems to me that the Levy era Bills as well as the Bobby April units were drafting and developing players for their special teams contributions. Maybe Hogan, Moats, Wingo, Summers, Bradham, etc. are poorly coached - or maybe they aren't good special teamers and we need better ones. Football Outsiders rated the Bills with the #4 defense, #25 offense, and #30 special teams. We need drastic improvement in this area - I am just not convinced that this all falls on the coach. And no, this is not a Ronnie Jones situation. His 2000 squad was the worst special teams unit in the history of organized professional football.
Kirby Jackson Posted January 3, 2014 Posted January 3, 2014 (edited) I Haha … I am not a Crossman apologist, just someone who wants evidence to the contrary before dismissing Marrone's viewpoint. It seems to me that the Levy era Bills as well as the Bobby April units were drafting and developing players for their special teams contributions. Maybe Hogan, Moats, Wingo, Summers, Bradham, etc. are poorly coached - or maybe they aren't good special teamers and we need better ones. Football Outsiders rated the Bills with the #4 defense, #25 offense, and #30 special teams. We need drastic improvement in this area - I am just not convinced that this all falls on the coach. And no, this is not a Ronnie Jones situation. His 2000 squad was the worst special teams unit in the history of organized professional football. Ha ha, just giving you a hard time. It wouldn't bother me as much if Doug wasn't all about accountability. He hires a guy that was bad previously and he takes the unit from 9th to 30th (the biggest drop in the league). Crossman has obviously had a negative effect on that unit (how much can be debated) and should be held accountable but he is Marrone's buddy. It is extremely hypocritical and a blow to Marrone's credibility. Edited January 3, 2014 by Kirby Jackson
reddogblitz Posted January 3, 2014 Posted January 3, 2014 Maybe Hogan, Moats, Wingo, Summers, Bradham, etc. are poorly coached - or maybe they aren't good special teamers and we need better ones. This was the excuse in Detroit as well as I recall.
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