Bills get pick 9

[OldTimer1960]

 

 

It's not about EJ Manuel

 

The Bills have statistically had (via PFF)close to the worst QB perfomance over the past two years

 

We are a 9-12 win team with a franchise QB

 

Now isn't the time to invest 2-3 years waiting to see if EJ can develop, maybe he's the guy mayb he isn't

 

Outside of signing a Jay Cutler you keep throwing high picks at the postion until you are positive have one. Period

 

The clock doesn't start until we solve this problem...any picks spent on an OL or a WR are a WASTE OF @##@# EVERYONE'S TIME

 

Keep throwing darts until you have a franchise QB...then we can worry about finding Linebacker and big speedy receivers

But if you keep giving up on QBs after one year where they didn't earn Hall Of Fame credentials, how will you ever know if you have a QB that will be very good?

 

Further by spending multiple high picks on QBs,, you are not spending those picks on players that can help a QB to succeed - WRs, RBs, OL...

[Kirby Jackson]

 

 

Whitner has been a very good player this year.

 

Not so much last year....though his overall struggles were masked somewhat by the NFL's premier front 7 in 2012. He was not even a *good* player for the Bills.

 

Being humiliated in the Super Bowl.....cut from the herd like a sick water buffalo by Joe Flacco....singled out as the weak link in the defense...finally humbled him into learning how to play the pass.

 

Nonetheless, the point was that Whitner and Maybin are not similar. One has had a successful NFL career & one is in Canada. Bill (and others on here) just hate Whitner (or in Bill's case dbs in general). He was never great for the Bills but he was an average football player. Maybin was an abomination (as was Mike Williams).

Edited January 2, 2014 by Kirby Jackson

[papazoid]

if we added the best offensive lineman in the league.....we might get 1 more win next year.

 

if we added the best QB in the league......we might get 5 more wins next year.

 

EJ Manuel is NEVER going to be a Top 10 QB in this league. also, the way he runs, he will constantly be injured and miss games.

 

so, what comes first, the chicken or the egg ??

 

if a QB who i thought was better than EJ is there at #9, i would pick the QB in a heartbeat.

 

absent that, then the next best thing is to upgrade the O-line.

 

2013 OFFENSIVE LINE stats (we got worse):

 

2013 gave up the 4th MOST SACKS in the league (48).

2012 gave up the 23rd most (30) mostly because Fitz was smart enough to get rid of it.

 

2013 ranked 14th in rushing average yards/carry (4.2).

2012 we were ranked 4th (5.0) mostly because you replaced levitre with legursky.

 

 

 

2013 QB PASSING stats (we got worse):

 

2013 EJ Manuel Passer Rating ranked 29th.

 

2012 Ryan Fitzpatrick Passer Rating ranked 17th.

[....lybob]

2013 OFFENSIVE LINE stats (we got worse):

 

2013 gave up the 4th MOST SACKS in the league (48).

2012 gave up the 23rd most (30) mostly because Fitz was smart enough to get rid of it.

 

2013 ranked 14th in rushing average yards/carry (4.2).

2012 we were ranked 4th (5.0) mostly because you replaced levitre with legursky.

 

 

 

2013 QB PASSING stats (we got worse):

 

2013 EJ Manuel Passer Rating ranked 29th.

 

2012 Ryan Fitzpatrick Passer Rating ranked 17th.

I think replacing Levitre with Collin Brown probably cost us 2 games

[TakeYouToTasker]

 

But if you keep giving up on QBs after one year where they didn't earn Hall Of Fame credentials, how will you ever know if you have a QB that will be very good?

 

Further by spending multiple high picks on QBs,, you are not spending those picks on players that can help a QB to succeed - WRs, RBs, OL...

Don't bother arguing with stupidity.

[PromoTheRobot]

Who knows, maybe a team will want to move up again and pay handsomely like last year

Yes that worked great for the Redskins.

 

Everyone accused me of being a Fitz lover but I said folks would miss his level of production, flawed as it was.

[papazoid]

What is your point?

 

None of those guys are rookies. You haven't refuted anything I've said.

 

My point (as if it needs explaining) is that people like you don't even recognize a good rookie season when it happens in front of their very eyes.

 

 

my point here is that it doesn't take the #1 overall pick to find a Top QB. that the bills have neglected the QB position for so long that we only have one possible franchise QB in our system (EJ). that the QB position is significantly more important than any other position as far as winning games goes. that we need to continue to invest heavily in high draft choices going forward until we actually hit on a QB, because the chances of signing a top free agent QB are less than drafting one.

 

i don't consider the 29th ranked QB a "good" rookie season (but this point is not worth debating).

 

i guess the primary differences we have are two fold:

 

#1- you see more "upside" in EJ going forward than i do. (i say at best, in a couple years, he ranks just inside of the Top 20, which isn't good enough)

 

#2- you are willing to give EJ more "time" to prove his upside than i would. ( i would bring in a QB immediately, including using the 9th pick if a qb was there worth taking).

 

i think the way EJ runs exposes his body to big hits which will result in repeat injury. he doesn't know how to get down to protect himself.

 

i believe until you have your Franchise QB in place, you are completely wasting your time addressing other areas of need.

 

also i would like to mention that i like EJ, i'm glad we drafted him, i'm cheering for him. i'm just not counting on him as my only option nor waiting for him to develop.

[Mr_Blizzard]

 

 

All those Qbs will be better than Manuel. He is the worst qb ever. He did nothing good this year. Facts.

 

I'd like to see how he does with the benefit of a full off-season and better o-line play.

 

That being said, if there is a chance to draft another solid QB this year, I'm all for it. The Bills QB depth needs an upgrade..

Edited January 1, 2014 by Mr_Blizzard

[KOKBILLS]

Yes that worked great for the Redskins.

 

Everyone accused me of being a Fitz lover but I said folks would miss his level of production, flawed as it was.

 

No offense PTR...But there is literally nothing I miss about Fitz...

 

Nothing...

 

Then again I never really liked him so...

[San Jose Bills Fan]

my point here is that it doesn't take the #1 overall pick to find a Top QB. that the bills have neglected the QB position for so long that we only have one possible franchise QB in our system (EJ). that the QB position is significantly more important than any other position as far as winning games goes. that we need to continue to invest heavily in high draft choices going forward until we actually hit on a QB, because the chances of signing a top free agent QB are less than drafting one.

 

i don't consider the 29th ranked QB a "good" rookie season (but this point is not worth debating).

 

If you're gonna wheel out that ranking I'll just mention again that EJ statistically had the 10th best rookie QB season in the last 20+ years.

 

i guess the primary differences we have are two fold:

 

#1- you see more "upside" in EJ going forward than i do. (i say at best, in a couple years, he ranks just inside of the Top 20, which isn't good enough)

 

#2- you are willing to give EJ more "time" to prove his upside than i would. ( i would bring in a QB immediately, including using the 9th pick if a qb was there worth taking).

 

Did I say how much time EJ deserves to prove himself? What I am saying is that people who judge him after the season he had (a good rookie season IMO) are being ridiculously quick on the trigger.

 

i think the way EJ runs exposes his body to big hits which will result in repeat injury. he doesn't know how to get down to protect himself.

 

EJ played a lot of snaps in college and never missed games to injury. His history as a football player leans towards last year being an outlyer. Knowing of his work ethic, I'm thinking he'll take measures to address getting stronger and smarter.

 

i believe until you have your Franchise QB in place, you are completely wasting your time addressing other areas of need.

 

I advocated for drafting a QB in late November:

 

http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/163868-greg-cosell-glennon-is-best-qb-in-rookie-class-and-it-is-not-eve/page__st__180#entry2988868

 

Look particularly at the last sentence.

 

also i would like to mention that i like EJ, i'm glad we drafted him, i'm cheering for him. i'm just not counting on him as my only option nor waiting for him to develop.

 

For the record, you've also said that you don't think he'll ever be a franchise QB. I certainly think he has a chance to become one.

[KOKBILLS]

Nonetheless, the point was that Whitner and Maybin are not similar. One has had a successful NFL career & one is in Canada. Bill (and others on here) just hate Whitner (or in Bill's case dbs in geberal). He was never great for the Bills but he was an average football player. Maybin was an abomination (as was Mike Williams).

 

I agree Kirby...And though I'm certainly not a Whitner fan I do agree with those who have pointed out time and time again it was not Whitner's fault he got Drafted so high...

 

And actually Mike Williams career was quite a bit better than Maybin's...That's how bad Maybin was...

[Dibs]

....

#2- you are willing to give EJ more "time" to prove his upside than i would. ( i would bring in a QB immediately, including using the 9th pick if a qb was there worth taking).

.....

 

Ignoring your other points, considering the emphasis that the FO is placing on making the playoffs, I think this would be a wise decision(to bring in a QB immediately) regardless of how confident one is of EJ improving.....or even how much time one is willing to give him.

 

I think it only logical that just as there is no real way of knowing that EJ won't become a lot better next season.....there is also no real way of knowing that he won't play at the same level or even regress. Considering the FO playoff directive, there still needs to be a plan B in place to help win games in the short term if plan A fails.

 

I don't see that a new rookie would fit into that category as few rookie QBs produce consistent wins(though I personally am not adverse to drafting the right one if available/lucky)......and unless one can rely on Thad improving(which really encompasses the same logic as EJ improving) I believe this means we will be looking for a capable veteran QB who can manage the ship if necessary while the future is groomed.

Edited January 1, 2014 by Dibs

[Reed83HOF]

I'm skeptical of Manual; but he gets this next year. They draft weapons and sign FAs to surround him with this season and see how things end up. If he falls apart, we won't have to trade that much to move up for another QB. If he is so so; then we can possibly trade up to grab a QB and still have the weapons we drafted this year to surround that guy with.

 

Again I am skeptical of Manual, but give the kid an offseason and his second year. If he still looks shoddy and the excuse becomes well he missed 6 games in his rookie; then I get very concerned...

[BADOLBILZ]

Nonetheless, the point was that Whitner and Maybin are not similar. One has had a successful NFL career & one is in Canada. Bill (and others on here) just hate Whitner (or in Bill's case dbs in geberal). He was never great for the Bills but he was an average football player. Maybin was an abomination (as was Mike Williams).

 

I can't disagree with that. They were both huge disappointments though and have had disappointing careers based on their draft position. And keep in mind, the only thing more important than a QB in the NFL is a premier pass rusher. Safeties.......meh.

 

It is interesting that Whitner made such an improvement this year............the SB humiliation and subsequent jump in play does little to dispel the theory that his wildly inflated ego/delusional nature was preventing him from becoming a better player.

[cosmo]

Its gotta be either an LB or OT in the 1st, whichever one of those we don't take in the 2nd and WR, TE and S in some order from 3rd-5th. It is just amazing how many people on here are so sure that EJ will never be a "franchise" QB. I know it was early in the season but it seems like so many have forgotten how he lead the team down the field and won the game against the Panthers (the number 2 overall seed in the NFC). If he shows little or no improvement next year after the full offseason, team and staff continuity etc, then I would be all for looking QB in 2015. We've waited 14 years, we can certainly wait one more to see what EJ can do and pick up some studs at other positions along the way.

[C.Biscuit97]

 

 

I am as well...I like him a lot...

 

I want Ebron or Evans in the first...

 

I'll also point out two years ago I wanted Alshon Jeffery REAL bad...I mean REAL bad...So...I fully expect that I'll be right again...

 

Agreed 100%. Evans and/ or Ebron. Ebron has a terrible qb situation in college & still produced. Evans, Ebron added to our current Wrs would be one of the best groups in the league.

 

And if EJ doesn't succeed, the next qb will step into a great situation.