Is Your Opinion Of EJ Tainted By The Fact That He Was A Round 1 Pick?

[KGUNBILLS]

I am disappointed because in 1 start, an undrafted rookie put up more numbers than our 1st rounder has in 2 starts.

[Rivermont Mike]

There is no "tainting" IMO. There are expectations and those expectations are tied to a person's draft position. High expectations for high round picks, low expectations for low round picks.

[Ronin]

This question goes for those of you who like him and those of you who don’t like him as the Bills’ starting quarterback. What if EJ had been taken by the Bills in the second round instead of the first? What if he had gone in the third or later?

 

I think most people’s opinions are highly tainted because he was a first round pick, just as their opinions are tainted about Jeff Tuel being an UDFA and Thad Lewis being a practice squad guy. Thad Lewis and Jeff Tuel lose respect because they were essentially NFL throwaways just about.

 

When I read opinions of what other people are saying about all 3 of these quarterbacks, I can’t help but notice their bias because of the “perceptions” created by a player’s draft placement. Human nature is a funny thing. Humans are emotional animals more so than they are logical decision makers.

 

Personally I think you should disregard where he was drafted and look at his play more objectively. Then decide whether he is good enough for you or not based on that. Same goes for Thad and Tuel.

 

What do you think? How much different would you feel about EJ if he was a later round pick? How much different would people here look at him if he had a different draft round associated with him?

 

Here's the thing, if he had been drafted in round 2 or 3, this team wouldn't look like the pack of fools that they are in drafting a QB in round 1 this year. In fact it would have made perfect sense to do so.

 

Instead, we must not forget that "Manuel was their guy" and they "had to have him." When you make statements like that then you unquestionably attach your future credibility to having that pick work out.

 

In other words, you can't say those things and then overdraft your own pick the next year and have people continue to think that you know what you're doing.

 

That's what should be discussed, not what this team should do. It's run by idiots, of course they're not going to draft and otherwise run this team like a competent contender and perennial playoff team. They've failed miserably at that since Polian ... LOL, ... was fired.

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

I'm not sure I'd agree it's to save face as much as drafting another will stunt either or both of their growths. There aren't enough snaps in training camp and OTA's particularly in today's new off season schedule to develop. I recall one Sunday night game Chris C commenting how backup QB's get less than five snaps a week with the #1 offense. That's OK with a vet backup but not a rookie. So unless the Bill's feel there's someone they could draft that is clearly better than EJ, I doubt it would help either having a QB competition. You'll just slow down both.

 

And before someone points out Cousins in Washington, lets see what happens if he gets traded to another team and does become the starter. Every team in the league could have a Hall of Fame QB if guys who looked great as backups then get traded/sign with another team play even half as well as they did as a backup! We could headline that list with Rob Johnson. A couple of more recent names that come to mind, Matt Flynn, Matt Schaub, Matt Casell (I think there's a pattern forming here) Kevin Kolb and likely am forgetting some others.

 

now they've boxed themselves in and may pass on a better QB to save face.

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

I decided to do a little research on first round QBs drafted from 2003-12. There have been 31 taken total, of which 11 are clear hits, (Rivers, Big Ben, Eli,Rodgers,Palmer,Ryan, Cutler,Flacco, Stafford,Luck and Newton). There are 11 or 12 that are clear misses (Boller,Russell,Quinn,Leinart ,Losman,Tebow,Weeden,Gabbert,Grossman,Leftwich,Sanchez and Young). This is very much an inexact science with a lot of luck involved. Given the Bills history of being a poor draft team. Does that put the odds of success at less than 50/50? I think so if were honest. I am very much rooting for EJ, however we don't know and we need some good luck. Keep Drafting QBs, probably not in the first round in this year. But you need options to develop!

[SageAgainstTheMachine]

It's a double-edged sword for EJ. If he was, say, a 4th rounder instead of a 1st rounder, he wouldn't get dogged so much for the inconsistent performances. He also wouldn't be the assumed starter for next season.

[KRT88]

No, I don't think so. I just feel that he has a great combination of skills and attitude. I love his maturity and how he handles himself. I also think that too many "fans" think all rookies should just jump in the league and get it done. He has played well in spurts but also look poor in spurts, how is that beyond the expectations? The kid wants to be the guy who helps take this franchise back to glory, I want a guy like that. Does EJ have flaws, yes, his accuracy is not where it needs to be and I think the game is still moving too fast for him. However, it will slow down with more reps. The concerns is inability to stay healthy but I see no reason to panic and jump right back into the draft and grab another QB. I like the teams 1-2 combination with Manuel and Lewis, though having a veteran around to help them wouldn't hurt.

 

Next year don't go into the season with three young, unproven QB's on the roster.

 

I am disappointed because in 1 start, an undrafted rookie put up more numbers than our 1st rounder has in 2 starts.

 

and the undrafted rookie committed a massive mistake that coast us that game as well. The pick-6 when we were going to score meant a 10 point turn-around minimum. We didn't see that from EJ.

[RuntheDamnBall]

yep guys dont get any better or change - what a pile of crap

Yup, you've got to evaluate guys on their college record, like when they have one good season that isn't as good as Manuel's best college season, at Fordham.

 

Here's the thing, if he had been drafted in round 2 or 3, this team wouldn't look like the pack of fools that they are in drafting a QB in round 1 this year. In fact it would have made perfect sense to do so.

That same pack of fools turned a single first-round pick into this QB THAT EVERYONE ACKNOWLEDGED WOULD TAKE SOME TIME TO DEVELOP, plus Kiko Alonso.

 

I am disappointed because in 1 start, an undrafted rookie put up more numbers than our 1st rounder has in 2 starts.

Kelly Holcomb put up some insane numbers in a couple games. He's available.

[MyHorseAteTheKid]

I think he is talented and smart.. just worried he is made of glass!!!

[thewildrabbit]

I do believe the Bills "reached" for EJ for several reasons.

 

A few things to consider, Buddy Nix stated he was (finally) drafting a QB, come hell or high water. It is conceivable that the Bills needed a boost to sell season tickets with no baby in sight after 3 sucky seasons, and a QB drafted in the first round would help sell seats. EJ suddenly started moving up in the draft because of interest in him by several teams, and it was noted that Eagles new HC Chip Kelly was going to draft EJ the first chance he got.

 

Bucky Brooks 7 mock drafts leading up to the actual draft,

 

Although there was no QB in the 2013 draft that was actually graded as a first rounder save Geno Smith / Matt Barkley early on, in say March. Whats crazy is Geno Smith was the first overall pick by Bucky Brooks Jan 15 2013, and Barkley 7th to Arizona, Glennon 8th to Buffalo. * interesting note WR Robert Woods graded as the 27th pick in the first round at that time.

 

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2013/mock-drafts/bucky-brooks/155114

 

Then by Feb 20th Geno Smith is still the #1 overall, Glennon to Buffalo. Then on March 4th things changed with Geno Smith going #3 to the Raiders. Then in March 15th Geno Smith to Buffalo at #8. Then in April Geno going #2 to the Jags.

Then on April 24th Geno Smith dropped completely out of the first round.

 

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2013/mock-drafts

 

March 1st NFL's Mike Mayock's top QB's

 

Quarterback

1. Geno Smith, West Virginia

2. Matt Barkley, USC

3. Mike Glennon, N.C. State

4. Ryan Nassib, Syracuse

5. Landry Jones, Oklahoma

http://www.nfl.com/draft/story/0ap1000000146289/article/mike-mayock-alters-position-rankings-for-2013-nfl-draft

 

Lets face it, the only team that actually thought EJ was worthy of a first round pick were the Buffalo Bills.

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000158147/article/2013-nfl-draft-tyler-wilson-geno-smith-top-quarterbacks

 

Ej was graded as a 3rd or 4th round "project" before the Senior Bowl. The after the game he started moving up because all the rest of the QB draft class looked bad. Senior bowl stats for MVP EJ. 7 of 10 for 76 yards, one TD passing, one TD rushing. http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-senior-bowl/0ap2000000131256/E-J-Manuel-coming-into-draft-at-perfect-time

 

 

Then, http://walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2013emanuel.php

 

 

 

Now, all that said. This years team could have been so much better in terms of wins and protecting the QB if only they had done a better job with the LG position. EJ has shown flashes of brilliance at times, but he needs better protection and the offense to be able to run the ball in every game from the start.

[hondo in seattle]

Once the draft is over, I don't care what round a player was picked. I don't care what the draft gurus said. I only care about what I see on the field.

 

If a first-rounder ends up being a reliable, but unexceptional, starter while our 5th and 6th rounders end up All-Pro, that's a great draft. And I'll be a fan of all three players. I'm a fan of any player who plays in Bills colors.

 

The thing with draft gurus is they're just guys who know a little more than us fans. NFL franchises have entire scouting departments spending thousands of man-hours visiting campuses, analyzing game video, talking to college coaches, attending workouts, interviewing players. Neither Kiper, nor McShay, nor any other talking head spends invests the same amount of time & effort that a team does. Not even close.

[oman128]

we all know the EJ was the only quarterback taken in the first round last year. Last years quarterback draft class was weak.

 

what if the Bills change course and make some crazy deal with Houston for the number 1 pick and draft Teddy Bridgewater. we all know that quarterbacks win games and if anybody watched the Russell Athletic bowl last night Teddy Bridgewater dominated the entire game and whooped Miami's ass. So i'd feel pretty good about having him in a Buffalo Bills uniform next season better than EJ.

[3putt]

I think the fact the Bills picked him in the 1st round forces them (in their minds) to cut him more slack in hopes that he won't make them look stupid and will improve. If he was picked in the 3rd round it would have been easier for them to justify picking a QB in the 1st round in 2014, but now they've boxed themselves in and may pass on a better QB to save face. An unfortunate jumping of the gun last year may cost us a real franchise QB this year.

This is the problem. You pick players based on their talent level in relation to other players regardless of position. If there are no first round talents to be selected, you don't waste a pick at that position. Picking a player in the first does not necessarily mean they are worthy of the pick. Selecting for need often leads to this result.

[bladiebla]

What bothers me is the lack of progression, I hope the exposure didnt hurt him. I think that Kolb would have been the starter if they had that option back when the season started.

[Ronin]

I'm not sure I'd agree it's to save face as much as drafting another will stunt either or both of their growths. There aren't enough snaps in training camp and OTA's particularly in today's new off season schedule to develop. I recall one Sunday night game Chris C commenting how backup QB's get less than five snaps a week with the #1 offense. That's OK with a vet backup but not a rookie. So unless the Bill's feel there's someone they could draft that is clearly better than EJ, I doubt it would help either having a QB competition. You'll just slow down both.

 

And before someone points out Cousins in Washington, lets see what happens if he gets traded to another team and does become the starter. Every team in the league could have a Hall of Fame QB if guys who looked great as backups then get traded/sign with another team play even half as well as they did as a backup! We could headline that list with Rob Johnson. A couple of more recent names that come to mind, Matt Flynn, Matt Schaub, Matt Casell (I think there's a pattern forming here) Kevin Kolb and likely am forgetting some others.

 

Agree on the playing time issue, which is a huge part of it and something that threatens continuity.

 

The point about saving face is that you simply can't reach for a player and claim that "he's your guy," whiff, and come out of it smelling good.

 

It has nothing to do with rectifying the situation, it has everything to do with taking a questionable coaching candidate to begin with and then having a very serious challenge to his credibility when there wasn't exactly a whole lot on the positive side of the ledger in that way to begin with.

 

Everyone credited him with "turning the SU program around," but with with a sophomore first-time starting QB and a rookie and novice head , this year's SU squad came one win shy of Marrone's best ever record there and in a tougher conference than Marrone was in, and also took the team to a more impressive bowl victory in a more established and more relevant bowl game. I'm not really sure that says much for Marrone's soft credentials coming in.

 

Anyway, the discussion this time two years from now will be all of those thinking that he's going to succeed here talking about nuking the place and how he needs to be thrown out of town by his shirt collar. LOL It's pretty clear now that he's in over his head and that's just not what this organization needs.

 

I'm just hoping that they can dig deep and put in one of those overachieving games where they pull a nugget out of their sphincters.

 

It's a double-edged sword for EJ. If he was, say, a 4th rounder instead of a 1st rounder, he wouldn't get dogged so much for the inconsistent performances. He also wouldn't be the assumed starter for next season.

 

Exactly right. But he wasn't, and with 16th overall, expectations exist that don't exist for players taken in later rounds. I realize that you know that, but that's why reaching for him in round one was stupid. Or part of the reason anyway. The other parts are that it now ties us up with three more years of some combinatoiin of Bledsoe, Holcomb, Edwards, and Fitzpatrick.

 

No, I don't think so. I just feel that he has a great combination of skills and attitude. I love his maturity and how he handles himself. I also think that too many "fans" think all rookies should just jump in the league and get it done. He has played well in spurts but also look poor in spurts, how is that beyond the expectations? The kid wants to be the guy who helps take this franchise back to glory, I want a guy like that. Does EJ have flaws, yes, his accuracy is not where it needs to be and I think the game is still moving too fast for him. However, it will slow down with more reps. The concerns is inability to stay healthy but I see no reason to panic and jump right back into the draft and grab another QB. I like the teams 1-2 combination with Manuel and Lewis, though having a veteran around to help them wouldn't hurt.

 

Remember when everyone liked Edwards based on the buzzword of the year that season? Poise?

 

He played poised, remember. That's all anyone, including the national level media, was saying. Well, what did "poise" get us when otherwise it was obvious that Edwards would never go anywhere in this league.

 

You cite the least important on-field traits about Manuel as evidence that he might succeed. Every winning QB and many losing ones have the same attributes. It's meaningless in terms of whether or not he will succeed in the NFL. What's far more meaningful are the things that you say he lacks.

 

That same pack of fools turned a single first-round pick into this QB THAT EVERYONE ACKNOWLEDGED WOULD TAKE SOME TIME TO DEVELOP, plus Kiko Alonso.

 

Yes or no, are you actually defending this FO's draft record?

 

Really?

 

I hate to be the one to break it to you, but if they whiff on Manuel, then Alonso will be a footnote. If they drafted well, they'd draft more players like Alonso and ones that wouldn't "take more time to develop" at 16th overall.

 

I think he is talented and smart.. just worried he is made of glass!!!

 

Everyone is talented in the NFL. The question is whether or not he is capable of succeeding at a level that features only the very best of the very best. I like most are simply not seeing it and never did.

 

The team's mistake is hitching their wagon to him last season and therefore leaving themselves few options down the road. At some point when you do things like this and then admit mistakes so soon it makes you look like you don't know what you're doing and I don't believe that they do know what they're doing.

 

We know and have known for years, for those honest enough to admit it, that the FO doesn't know what they're doing, so the only question that remains is does the new coaching staff know what they're doing. All one has to do is review the post-game threads here to see clearly that Marrone is a bigtime OJT coach.

 

Is that really a high percentage chance coach? Hardly.

Edited December 29, 2013 by TaskersGhost

[Ronin]

we all know the EJ was the only quarterback taken in the first round last year. Last years quarterback draft class was weak.

 

what if the Bills change course and make some crazy deal with Houston for the number 1 pick and draft Teddy Bridgewater. we all know that quarterbacks win games and if anybody watched the Russell Athletic bowl last night Teddy Bridgewater dominated the entire game and whooped Miami's ass. So i'd feel pretty good about having him in a Buffalo Bills uniform next season better than EJ.

 

What if we just traded for Andrew Luck.

 

Let's be realistic here. Houston has a contender otherwise and is a decent head coach and QB away from doing that along with one good offseason and Draft. Why on earth would they trade a pick like that?

 

We'll be drafting 9th thru 15th again, so let's look at the options there. But again, consider, last season all we heard were reasons for why we had reached for Manuel, and the simple answer was that Manuel was their guy and that they couldn't risk waiting 'til round 2 to see if he would still be there.

 

What now, you think that the same people that said that less than a year ago, or a year ago by the time that the Draft rolls around, are going to admit that they really didn't want him? How utterly ridiculous would that be?

 

More importantly, what would it say about them? To me it would say that they're the bunch of in-over-their-head fools that I already think that they are but that not everyone realizes that yet but soon will. They'll sink their own ship over time, but don't expect them to be so obviously foolish to scuttle it voluntarily.

 

I can see them drafting a QB in round 2, a prospect that may still be better than any of last year's, but still, that would add issues to an already volatile situation. Is that really what this team needs? Hardly.

 

It needed a solid strategy to Draft a legitimate ringer of a QB on which to pin its future hope. It didn't need reaching for Manuel with lame reasons for why followed by the predictably obvious current situation. Again, this is just one more instance where this team has no vision whatsoever. None!

[KeisterHollow]

What makes me frustrated with the pick is we've had an undrafted street FA play as good or better than a 1st round pick. The good things Manuel has done have been far out-weighed by the negative things he's shown us. You might as well ask if we'd be satisfied with Thaddeus Lewis as our 1st round pick. Of course we wouldn't be. There's argument as to whether or not Lewis is good enough to be a full time 2nd string QB. Yet, arguably the worse of the two QB's has a large percentage of people saying he'll end up being a quality starting NFL QB - or, to just give him time. I don't understand it. Given the Bills past, their current situation - I don't know about the rest of the Bills fan base, but it's getting harder and harder to continually see this team fall short - I'd say it should be Bills policy to CONTINUE TO DRAFT QB's UNTIL THEY GET ONE THAT IS PROVEN TO BE STAR MATERIAL. Which means, if I were running the show, I'd throw another 1st or 2nd round pick at one of the next batch of QB's, giving myself and my team at least a fallback option. I just don't see why we'd sacrifice another few years on a QB we don't have any reason to believe is good enough - and what if he only ends up being like a middle of the road NFL QB, are we going to be happy then? I want a top QB on this team, and I think we need to continue bringing guys in until we find a star - and if we end up with 2 or 3 QB's who are capable of starting, then you can begin to regain draft picks via trades. Heck - New England has a second string QB that is probably capable of being a top 12 QB in Mallet, and they have Brady, and I bet they go for another top rated QB in the next draft or two. You don't sit pat at that position!!!! (I wrote this all in one paragraph because this site, for some reason, makes it almost impossible to type if I hit enter - I have to peck out each letter, and half the time they don't register - it is something with this website, because not long ago I couldn't even hit enter and have the cursor move to another line!)