FireChan Posted December 27, 2013 Posted December 27, 2013 There'd be at least one guy who would think he was rubbish if he makes the next 3 probowls and wins us the SB. I just couldn't understand why at this point in time(when it is reasonable to have not given up on him) you would make that comment. For everyone to keep in mind that most people have their minds made up and these points have been argued over and over. And no one is budging.
Dibs Posted December 27, 2013 Posted December 27, 2013 For everyone to keep in mind that most people have their minds made up and these points have been argued over and over. And no one is budging. Actually, from looking at the other thread which asked for people's confidence level in EJ......a vast majority showed that they hadn't made their minds up......and only an insignificantly small amount had made their minds up that EJ will definitely be the answer at QB.
Johnny Hammersticks Posted December 27, 2013 Posted December 27, 2013 EJ doesn't have pocket awareness which to me is something a QB either has or he doesn't and isn't something anyone can learn His mechanics are terrible and haven't improved at all which begs the question...what has this coaching staff been doing with him all year? You can't write a guy off after one year but I have serious doubts EJ will ever turn into a good starting QB in the NFL I will disagree with you that pocket awareness is something that can't be learned. IMHO it is a skill, similar to reading defenses, that comes with experience. Some young QB's adapt to the NFL faster than others depending on the circumstances they are drafted into. I will agree, however, that it appears that this coaching staff hasn't done much to correct EJ's footwork/mechanics issues. Keep in mind that these things are heavily reliant on muscle memory, consistency, and repetition. EJ's season has been so "choppy" having missed half of the preseason, and 6 games during the regular season. I will beat the same drum here, and say that EJ needs a coach who specializes in teaching and reinforcing these skills in QB's. A solution to this would be bringing in a legitimate QB coach. A good example of this is Philip Rivers. He is no longer a young QB, but just look at what Ken Whisenhunt and Frank Reich have done to revitalize his career. He looks like a completely different player this year. I believe the same could be accomplished with EJ. Working in his favor are some attributes that cannot be taught. Namely intelligence, size, and athleticism. He at least deserves a fighting chance, and should be given the proper support.
TheBrownBear Posted December 27, 2013 Posted December 27, 2013 Assuming EJ continues to play 7-8 games a season, we should have enough game film to evaluate him sometime in 2017.
FireChan Posted December 27, 2013 Posted December 27, 2013 Actually, from looking at the other thread which asked for people's confidence level in EJ......a vast majority showed that they hadn't made their minds up......and only an insignificantly small amount had made their minds up that EJ will definitely be the answer at QB. But there are posters who argue both ways and there's no point. Posters have made their mind up about not making their mind up yet.
Dibs Posted December 27, 2013 Posted December 27, 2013 But there are posters who argue both ways and there's no point. Posters have made their mind up about not making their mind up yet. The point would be to discuss EJ's relative merits and flaws.......rather than arguing the value of one's made up mind.
DefenseWinzChampionshipz Posted December 27, 2013 Posted December 27, 2013 Excellent article, and unfortunately very depressing. EJ has a long way to go. The training facilities are only a couple feet away... not TOO long of a way to go. My point is, we don't NEED the next Jim Kelly in Buffalo. If EJ can just get better at doing certain things, he can officially become a "game manager". If our defense continues to improve next year, we can win many games with a "game managing" QB much like KC did this year. Though they DO have Andy Reid as their teacher. Since we more than likely will not be drafting another QB in round 1 this upcoming draft, our only hope is EJ getting better and finally "developing". I'm actually excited about the draft and free agency. Nomore Nix to blame. Let's see what Whaley brings to the table next year.
Garranimal Posted December 28, 2013 Posted December 28, 2013 EJ sucks, so we should have drafted someone else who sucks, because then he wouldn't suck. But if EJ doesn't suck then clearly with the amount of field time that Nassib (insert QB name here) has seen, how can that QB suck. You can't have it both ways, you just can't. The only mumbling i continue to hear repeated is that EJ has the most upside. What the frick is upside? Is that measured with a probe? There cannot be a more vague, unspecified, imagined 'plus' than that?? I didn't want Nassib, but seeing as our three qbs of varying pedigrees have all played relatively similar to one another, how could he be worse? How can you even begin to argue it?
Johnny Hammersticks Posted December 28, 2013 Posted December 28, 2013 But if EJ doesn't suck then clearly with the amount of field time that Nassib (insert QB name here) has seen, how can that QB suck. You can't have it both ways, you just can't. The only mumbling i continue to hear repeated is that EJ has the most upside. What the frick is upside? Is that measured with a probe? There cannot be a more vague, unspecified, imagined 'plus' than that?? I didn't want Nassib, but seeing as our three qbs of varying pedigrees have all played relatively similar to one another, how could he be worse? How can you even begin to argue it? Nassib couldn't even beat out Curtis Painter for the backup job in NY. So, I don't think you could definitively say that he "sucks," but you might surmise that EJ is the better player at this point in their careers. Upside means potential. Meaning the player hasn't completely reached their potential, but has the attributes that could help them to develop into a very good player. No, you can't take a blood test to determine a player's upside, but that is what NFL talent evaluators do. What coaches and players do with that "upside" when they reach the NFL is a whole other issue.
RuntheDamnBall Posted December 28, 2013 Posted December 28, 2013 it's no more cherry picking than picking on the tampa game. 3 games under 65, 3 over 100. take out his best and worst, and he is at an 80. The sample size is only 10, so cherry picking 3 results is basically a third of the sample. summary: we haven't seen enough Hey now, we agree. But if EJ doesn't suck then clearly with the amount of field time that Nassib (insert QB name here) has seen, how can that QB suck. You can't have it both ways, you just can't. The only mumbling i continue to hear repeated is that EJ has the most upside. What the frick is upside? Is that measured with a probe? There cannot be a more vague, unspecified, imagined 'plus' than that?? I didn't want Nassib, but seeing as our three qbs of varying pedigrees have all played relatively similar to one another, how could he be worse? How can you even begin to argue it? Oh, I don't know. One of them has had knee injuries all year, and if you want to argue that Tuel has played as well as the other two, I suggest an eye exam. The point would be to discuss EJ's relative merits and flaws.......rather than arguing the value of one's made up mind. Why should we argue the value of zero? It's the surest thing there is.
3rdand12 Posted December 28, 2013 Posted December 28, 2013 But if EJ doesn't suck then clearly with the amount of field time that Nassib (insert QB name here) has seen, how can that QB suck. You can't have it both ways, you just can't. The only mumbling i continue to hear repeated is that EJ has the most upside. What the frick is upside? Is that measured with a probe? There cannot be a more vague, unspecified, imagined 'plus' than that?? I didn't want Nassib, but seeing as our three qbs of varying pedigrees have all played relatively similar to one another, how could he be worse? How can you even begin to argue it? Upside was what the pre draft scouting reports were consistent in using to describe him. He is a smart kid . He has the work ethic. Pre draft alot of the noise was his physical element and then the ability to learn,work hard and stay focused . The kid had an introduction to the NFL I would strongly suspect was not as Buffalo Bills had planned at all. thats a different story though. He was described as having a shiton of potential. Does that make sense ? Measuring with probes is science. Measuring a QB potential is hardly that. i might guess. " ) Hey now, we agree. That makes 3 of us !
RuntheDamnBall Posted December 28, 2013 Posted December 28, 2013 Upside was what the pre draft scouting reports were consistent in using to describe him. He is a smart kid . He has the work ethic. Pre draft alot of the noise was his physical element and then the ability to learn,work hard and stay focused . The kid had an introduction to the NFL I would strongly suspect was not as Buffalo Bills had planned at all. thats a different story though. He was described as having a shiton of potential. Does that make sense ? Measuring with probes is science. Measuring a QB potential is hardly that. i might guess. " ) That makes 3 of us ! Very well stated.
Dibs Posted December 28, 2013 Posted December 28, 2013 ...... What the frick is upside? .... If you don't understand the concept of upside(or potential), the draft must be a complete mystery to you.
Buffaloed in Pa Posted December 28, 2013 Posted December 28, 2013 No strengths and lots of weaknesses. Get ready for camp E.J. Needs lots of work. Slow release and slow decisions are his biggest downfall.
Johnny Hammersticks Posted December 28, 2013 Posted December 28, 2013 No strengths and lots of weaknesses. Get ready for camp E.J. Needs lots of work. Slow release and slow decisions are his biggest downfall. Yikes! No strengths? Tough assessment.
K-9 Posted December 28, 2013 Posted December 28, 2013 No strengths and lots of weaknesses. Get ready for camp E.J. Needs lots of work. Slow release and slow decisions are his biggest downfall. Slow release? That's absurd. His decision making will only improve with experience. His first year was gonna be a challenge from that standpoint even if things went well. Him missing six weeks of action over the course of the season and preseason did more to curtail that aspect of his game than anything. GO BILLS!!!
26CornerBlitz Posted December 28, 2013 Posted December 28, 2013 No strengths and lots of weaknesses. Get ready for camp E.J. Needs lots of work. Slow release and slow decisions are his biggest downfall. Wrong!
OCinBuffalo Posted December 28, 2013 Posted December 28, 2013 (edited) No strengths and lots of weaknesses. Get ready for camp E.J. Needs lots of work. Slow release and slow decisions are his biggest downfall. Slow release? That's absurd. Yes, there's opinion...and then there's just utter nonsense. EJ's release is the closest to Marino's that I've seen...since Marino. It's measurable, and it's consistent. You want to say he's a slow reader...that's a matter of opinion, and I don't have any issue with it. Perhaps he gets better, perhaps he doesn't. But his release is the quickest, most effortless...maybe in the entire league. That's what people don't get: that's the one thing you can't teach...much...and EJ has "it". "It" doesn't matter if the ball doesn't go where it needs to go, due to bad reads, footwork, etc. Doing all the other things right, but not having the release? That = Ryan Fitzpatrick. Bottom Line: Now that EJ can see what he needs to do, he needs to spend the whole offseason practicing it. IF he can get the rest of it right, he can be absolutely deadly. Edited December 28, 2013 by OCinBuffalo
John from Riverside Posted December 28, 2013 Posted December 28, 2013 Its gonna be a long offseason with the horse pucky people are gonna spew on this board..... In a couple of months there will be fans trying to spew that EJ Manuel is a fat, lazy, noodle armed, mentally challenged, locker room distraction that teammates cant stand......just wait
DefenseWinzChampionshipz Posted December 28, 2013 Posted December 28, 2013 But if EJ doesn't suck then clearly with the amount of field time that Nassib (insert QB name here) has seen, how can that QB suck. You can't have it both ways, you just can't. The only mumbling i continue to hear repeated is that EJ has the most upside. What the frick is upside? Is that measured with a probe? There cannot be a more vague, unspecified, imagined 'plus' than that?? I didn't want Nassib, but seeing as our three qbs of varying pedigrees have all played relatively similar to one another, how could he be worse? How can you even begin to argue it? Our 3 QBs playing "relatively similar" to me just indicates that Hackett is ruining all 3 of em in one season.
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