Does Fred Jackson merit wall of fame?

[Doug Flutie Band]

I think some folks are confusing the Bills Wall of Fame with THE Hall of Fame in Canton, OH.

 

To be a member of the Wall of Fame, the HOF numbers are not a requirement. We have the 12th Man and Bob Kalsu on ours, for example. They were put on the Wall not for playing stats but incredible intangibles or contributions to the team. While there are many other examples, the Bears (Brian Piccolo) and the Cardinals (Pat Tillman) also come to mind of teams putting players on the Wall of Fame that didn't have the "stats".

 

Kalsu and Tillman were honored because they left football to go serve in our nation's military and DIED in combat.

 

Bob Kalsu has a Bronze Star and a Purple Heart. Pat Tillman has a Silver Star and a Purple Heart.

 

Are you really comparing Fred Jackson to these guys?

 

If you put Fred up on the Wall of Fame, he would be among, if not the single least productive on least decorated Bill on the wall.

[Kirby Jackson]

I'm in the yes category. He embodies everything that you could want in a football player. He's smart, talented, a leader and one of the toughest players to ever put on a Bills uni.

[Doug Flutie Band]

I'm in the yes category. He embodies everything that you could want in a football player.

 

unless you want touchdowns, pro bowls, a top 15 rusher, or to win football games

[bobobonators]

Respect everyone's opinions. Since there are only a few of us who disagree with Freddie being on the WOF, I'll continue the contrarian point:

Yes, Freddie is 3rd all-time for the bills with 5,067 yards; however, he's lightyears away from #1 and #2: Thurman had 11K + and OJ had 10K+. Freddy is lumped in with a bunch of average players after #1/#2.

 

Eric Moulds is #2 in receiving and he's not on the Wall. Heck, Lee Evans is #3 in receiving and scored more points than Freddy and he's not on the Wall. Moulds/Evans are #8 and #9 in points scored in bills history while Freddy is #17. Both Moulds/Evans produced on some pretty bad teams too. Neither are on the Wall.

 

The biggest thing for me against Freddy is that he's just not on the field that much. Out of his 7 seasons with the Bills, in 3 of them he's played in 10 games or less; that's almost half his time as a Bill. And when he has been on the field, he hasn't been the featured back

Maybe if he reaches 10K total yards receiving/rushing I can see it..but I don't see him reaching that mark by a couple of thousand. He's a nice guy. Really professional, etc. but there are a lot of those.

 

15 years from now, when you're sitting at the stadium with your son/grandchild and you go through all the names on that wall and give a brief description for each, what would Freddy's watershed moment be as a Bill? I'd have a hard time to muster something up other than "he played hard/was a good leader". Maybe that's good enough, I dunno. Just waters down the significance of the WOF, in my opinion.

Edited December 27, 2013 by bobobonators

[Kirby Jackson]

 

 

unless you want touchdowns, pro bowls, a top 15 rusher, or to win football games

 

So you think that he is part of the problem over the last 15 years? What would his career look like if he played for Belicheck? I bet that he would have been a HOFer. It's not has fault that he was surrounded by trash for so long. Do you really think that Phil Hansen or Jim Richter were better football players than Freddie?

[Doug Flutie Band]

i think fred is a good serviceable player and his intangibles make him a fan favorite (rightfully so everyone loves freddy!)

 

 

jim richter played 14 seasons for the Bills, was under center for all four of the superbowl runs, and was selected to the pro bowl multiple times - so yes i would say he is of a higher caliber than fred

Edited December 27, 2013 by Noodle

[justnzane]

i think fred is a good serviceable player and his intangibles make him a fan favorite (rightfully so everyone loves freddy!)

 

 

jim richter played 14 seasons for the Bills, was under center for all four of the superbowl runs, and was selected to the pro bowl multiple times - so yes i would say he is of a higher caliber than fred

Richter was guard for the SB run. Hull was center.

 

Freddy deserves the honor, imo. As someone who has interviewed two of the Wall of Famers, including Booker Edgerson the week he was inducted, Freddy plays old school football that represents the team very well. The WOF is not all about on the field contributions, but behind the scenes as well. Unless Freddy plays until he is 40 (you never know with him), he will likely wait behind some other Bills greats.

[Kirby Jackson]

i think fred is a good serviceable player and his intangibles make him a fan favorite (rightfully so everyone loves freddy!)

 

 

jim richter played 14 seasons for the Bills, was under center for all four of the superbowl runs, and was selected to the pro bowl multiple times - so yes i would say he is of a higher caliber than fred

 

Richter was a decent guard on a good line. I think that he made 2 pro bowls (which Fred could have done if the team was competitive). Hansen I don't think ever went to a pro bowl and he was a role player even in his best years. No one ever schemed against him. He was a nice player but no way was he was the player that Fred is.

[dpberr]

Kalsu and Tillman were honored because they left football to go serve in our nation's military and DIED in combat.

 

Bob Kalsu has a Bronze Star and a Purple Heart. Pat Tillman has a Silver Star and a Purple Heart.

 

Are you really comparing Fred Jackson to these guys?

 

If you put Fred up on the Wall of Fame, he would be among, if not the single least productive on least decorated Bill on the wall.

 

No comparison, but illustration of a point, my friend. Those gentlemen are on the Wall for other reasons besides what you'll find in the NFL stats. Walls of Fame league wide are filled with players who weren't year in and year out Pro Bowlers, Hall of Famers or even elite football talents.

 

Brian Piccolo really didn't do much on a football field but he's immortilized in Chicago. Don Fleming played in only 38 games for the Browns but had his jersey number retired upon his death. Jerome Brown went to the Pro Bowl only twice and yet had his jersey retired in Philadelphia.

[Dan]

If that is the case then there is only one or two players from 2002-2012 that can be put on The Wall. Those would be Moulds and Kyle Williams. Maybe Dareus will one day be there if he continues as a Bill, or Byrd, SJ13, Alonso, or McKelvin, or Spiller, or EJ... a lot of possibilities.

 

That means in 2024 we get to see Antowain Smith, Don Beebe or Mark Pike instead.

I think when you look at the last 15 years of Bills' football, there's very few players worthy of the recognition. Maybe some of the current, young players, but we'll have to let their careers play out. Freddie, however, is the only player in my mind that has consistently been the heart and soul of the team and the fanbase. He's been productive on the field; he's one of the few players that I think could have played on any of the great teams in Bills' history.

 

We, as fans of a losing team, have had little to be proud of for 15 years. Freddie's play has been one of them. He plays every play like it could be his last and has earned more than he has received.

[MarkyMannn]

Will they even have a wall of fame in Toronto?

 

Put FJ right between Jacques Plante and Tim Horton

[Doug Flutie Band]

No comparison, but illustration of a point, my friend. Those gentlemen are on the Wall for other reasons besides what you'll find in the NFL stats. Walls of Fame league wide are filled with players who weren't year in and year out Pro Bowlers, Hall of Famers or even elite football talents.

 

Brian Piccolo really didn't do much on a football field but he's immortilized in Chicago. Don Fleming played in only 38 games for the Browns but had his jersey number retired upon his death. Jerome Brown went to the Pro Bowl only twice and yet had his jersey retired in Philadelphia.

 

Why do you keep comparing Fred Jackson to players that died an untimely early death?

 

First you compared him to Bob Kalsu and Pat Tillman who both died in military service.

 

Don Fleming died at 25. Piccolo died at 26. Jerome Brown made his two pro bowls before he died at 27.

Edited December 27, 2013 by Noodle

[KGUNBILLS]

The guy bleeds Buffalo Red, White, and Blue. Hell yes he belongs on the Wall.

[Thunderstealer]

If Fred carries Patriot chumps on his back into the end zone -- spikes the ball (does hulk move) to beat the Pats in Gilete Field. Yes.

[MarkyMannn]

What would his career look like if he played for Belicheck?

 

. I think that he made 2 pro bowls (which Fred could have done if the team was competitive).

 

But FJ didn't. Can't justify WOF with if's, and's, but's, coulda, shoulda, woulda

 

It is the Wall of Fame. Not the Wall of very good. I like and respect FJ's career, but NO

[boyst]

I think when you look at the last 15 years of Bills' football, there's very few players worthy of the recognition. Maybe some of the current, young players, but we'll have to let their careers play out. Freddie, however, is the only player in my mind that has consistently been the heart and soul of the team and the fanbase. He's been productive on the field; he's one of the few players that I think could have played on any of the great teams in Bills' history.

 

We, as fans of a losing team, have had little to be proud of for 15 years. Freddie's play has been one of them. He plays every play like it could be his last and has earned more than he has received.

Kyle Williams cannot be denied and fits this list, as well. Plus, he has earned Pro Bowl honors.

[Kirby Jackson]

 

 

 

 

But FJ didn't. Can't justify WOF with if's, and's, but's, coulda, shoulda, woulda

 

It is the Wall of Fame. Not the Wall of very good. I like and respect FJ's career, but NO

 

Do you think that Phil Hansen was a better Buffalo Bill than Fred Jackson? I don't and he is on the wall. No team ever had to gameplan against him. He was a role player.

 

Not to mention there are not a lot of guys waiting to go up with better cases than Fred and they are not going to just stop inducting people. This year was an exception but they are looking for more guys to go up.

[metzelaars_lives]

It's funny this came up as a topic as my friends and I have started to discuss this very topic recently. I think the answer is yes. I think if he plays one more season at the level he did this year, then it's a slam dunk. I have not read this whole thread but I'm sure someone has mentioned this: clearly the WOF takes into consideration the players' professionalism and commitment to the organization. For example, Cornelius Bennett is still not a WOF'er due to (I'm assuming) his off the field incidents and perceived attitude. Fred Jackson is the consummate professional and has personified commitment to his organization. By becoming the team's 3rd all time leading rusher, I think he clinches it.

[Dan]

Kyle Williams cannot be denied and fits this list, as well. Plus, he has earned Pro Bowl honors.

I agree, completely. However, Kyle has quite a few years left to play. So, I'd like to see how his career ends, ie does he stay in Buffalo or chase money elsewhere. With Fred, I firmly believe he wants to be a Bill till he retires, which is unfortunately only a couple years away.

 

It is an interesting delimma though. Outside of a few players like Beebe, we're either about to go through 4 or 5 years with no one being put up on the wall... or several really marginal players going up, just to have a half time ceremony. I wonder which way Russ will go?

 

[boyst]

I agree, completely. However, Kyle has quite a few years left to play. So, I'd like to see how his career ends, ie does he stay in Buffalo or chase money elsewhere. With Fred, I firmly believe he wants to be a Bill till he retires, which is unfortunately only a couple years away.

 

It is an interesting delimma though. Outside of a few players like Beebe, we're either about to go through 4 or 5 years with no one being put up on the wall... or several really marginal players going up, just to have a half time ceremony. I wonder which way Russ will go?

I will eventually start a thread on it this off season when we have nothing else to do because this dilemma is so unfortunate. Do we celebrate mediocre players from the good times? Do we go back to the beginning and put up some golden oldies? I forgot who the couple were since they were before my time but there are certainly some deserving players Bills related folks who deserve recognition.

 

Now, a disclaimer is simple. I do not want to have PR stunts that make us honor a Buffalo Jill who overcame _____ and now teaches children in 3rd world nations how to eat Vegan and I do not want to put up Frank Reich or Darrick Holmes. We appreciate almost every player that has worn a Bills buffalo but we need to keep the water clean and pure and not murk it up.