Rosenthal bold face lies about EJ in an NFL.com…

[YoloinOhio]

Yeah, because this team (and more importantly this regime) has proven it cannot beat other teams to good talent in the draft, free agency, or rookie UDFAs. That's why we always miss out on guys like Kiko Alonzo, Manny Lawson, and Nickell Robey.

 

Oh wait, perhaps railing on this regime for their personnel decisions is silly at this point.

 

 

 

Saying that he regresses every week is flat out wrong.

 

He played poorly against Pittsburgh, then came back strong against the Jets; ba against Tampa, but played very well after the 1st quarter of the Jax game (unless we're now going to call 17-20 with 2 TDs/0INTs and a rushing TD a poor performance, in which case I'm out of this discussion).

 

Nobody can say if EJ will be the guy it not at this point, but some of the trash ive read on this board the last two weeks is embarrassing to football fans everywhere.

 

He isn't regressing every week.

He hasn't been outplayed by Thad Lewis.

He isn't soft.

 

None of those things have any backing in reality, yet I read them here daily...

 

It's unbelievable.

It is getting to the point where a lot of the posts here are just made up to support one's side of the EJ coin. I can't stand it. Those who support him are saying we don't know what he will be, but are looking at the entire situation and what we know about the player and the team and are willing to give him a chance based on what we have seen thus far. Those who are on the other side just constantly look for reasons to prove why they are right. Not sure why some feel the need to be so extreme. If SJ doesn't fumble in the ATL game, Carpenter comes in and kicks the winning FG. EJ would have led that scoring drive. If SJ doesn't drop the pass in the 1st NE game, likely we win that one too again as a result of EJ's execution. So people can bash him for getting hurt (I'll never understand this) but those 2 games alone would have had us in the playoff hunt AND the tiebreaker over Miami and Baltimore. Those who say he can't lead this team to the playoffs are not seeing the whole picture. He did that as a raw rookie who the Bills didn't plan on starting this year. Which other rookie QB would have been better? None of them, IMO. Get the kid a real QB coach, a real LG and some WRs who can hold onto the freaking ball. Edited December 28, 2013 by YoloInTheBlo

[QCity]

2) By a large percentage people on this board at this time last year wanted to hang Fitz. Where are those people now?

 

I'm still here! And I couldn't be happier that Fitz is not our starting QB.

 

But seriously let's draft a qb in the 1st round. And the second he struggles, we can give up on him & draft another guy in the 1st. And then keep doing until we get a pro bowl rookie qb!

 

This has been the biggest straw man argument on this board for the past few weeks, and probably will be up until the draft. No one is saying to keep drafting 1st rounders until we hit a Pro Bowl rookie. How about at least drafting a high QB (1st-3rd round) until we get one that doesn't have glass knees?

[BADOLBILZ]

Yeah, because this team (and more importantly this regime) has proven it cannot beat other teams to good talent in the draft, free agency, or rookie UDFAs. That's why we always miss out on guys like Kiko Alonzo, Manny Lawson, and Nickell Robey.

 

Oh wait, perhaps railing on this regime for their personnel decisions is silly at this point.

 

 

 

Saying that he regresses every week is flat out wrong.

 

He played poorly against Pittsburgh, then came back strong against the Jets; ba against Tampa, but played very well after the 1st quarter of the Jax game (unless we're now going to call 17-20 with 2 TDs/0INTs and a rushing TD a poor performance, in which case I'm out of this discussion).

 

Nobody can say if EJ will be the guy it not at this point, but some of the trash ive read on this board the last two weeks is embarrassing to football fans everywhere.

 

He isn't regressing every week.

He hasn't been outplayed by Thad Lewis.

He isn't soft.

 

None of those things have any backing in reality, yet I read them here daily...

 

It's unbelievable.

 

I don't know if I have ever seen anyone regress EVERY week. Ever.

 

I do think he has played worse since he returned from the Cleveland knee injury.

 

Part of that is not improving........part of that is that his weaknesses are accumulating on tape now.

 

Example: the frontside blitz he couldn't see coming against Tampa and that was repeated by Jax.

 

That part is only going to get worse.

 

As for improving.......the Bills have had a procession of QB's come thru with one or two killer weaknesses.....all touted as correctable.........that prevented them from being successful.

 

Manuel has his.

 

Assuming that he will overcome them........or even risking another season to his development alone..... is taking a lot for granted.

[Dibs]

Followed by: "But there is still the posibility that he can do what Nick Foles is doing if given competent coaching and an upgrade at who the targets he's throwing to are."

 

That is how i got that out of what was said....easy...all you had to do was include the VERY NEXT sentence.

 

You and I must have a different dictionary. "There is still the possibility" does not mean that he believes that EJ will do what Foles did.

Edited December 29, 2013 by Dibs

[run dat back]

The main reason we find ourselves discussing the pros and cons of EJ Manuel as Bills QB is the gross mismanagement of Nix and company. You have a starter who is nothing more than a serviceable backup, and who loses games for you single-handed. So skip over the year that has many good QBs in the draft and then reach for a guy in a year that doesn't have any standouts. Brilliant.

[BADOLBILZ]

The main reason we find ourselves discussing the pros and cons of EJ Manuel as Bills QB is the gross mismanagement of Nix and company. You have a starter who is nothing more than a serviceable backup, and who loses games for you single-handed. So skip over the year that has many good QBs in the draft and then reach for a guy in a year that doesn't have any standouts. Brilliant.

 

Nix blew it at the QB position but if Whaley and Marrone don't get their QB it will be their own fault.

 

Sisyphean made a good point the other day.....everybody from Russ to Whaley to Marrone needs to know that they need to build a long term successful organization IMMEDIATELY because at Ralph's age ownership could change in a heartbeat and the new owner is going to look at Russ and Whaley's long term association with losing.....Russ is about 15 years into it and Whaley is 4 years in......and chances are that the new owner isn't going to spend that kind of money and then take a chance on people with losing track records when he can bring in his own management.

 

For those guys, they need to know that a WR or TE....or anything other than a QB.... is not going to give them the chance to achieve that kind of success that more chances on QB's would.

Edited December 29, 2013 by BADOLBEELZ

[YoloinOhio]

Nix blew it at the QB position but if Whaley and Marrone don't get their QB it will be their own fault.

 

Sisyphean made a good point the other day.....everybody from Russ to Whaley to Marrone needs to know that they need to build a long term successful organization IMMEDIATELY because at Ralph's age ownership could change in a heartbeat and the new owner is going to look at Russ and Whaley's long term association with losing.....Russ is about 15 years into it and Whaley is 4 years in......and chances are that the new owner isn't going to spend that kind of money and then take a chance on people with losing track records when he can bring in his own management.

 

For those guys, they need to know that a WR or TE....or anything other than a QB.... is not going to give them the chance to achieve that kind of success that more chances on QB's would.

Has it been concluded that Nix wanted to draft EJ and Whaley and Marrone (and Brandon for that matter) disagreed? Typically, this is not how it works. They all would have decided to take him. If they wanted another QB or no QB than Nix would have had to override them. Despite his title at the time, that would have been a HUGE deal especially considering they must have known he was not going to be there to see it through. Just wondering if this was actually said because it seems crazy, the organization (Whaley a big factor as wasn't he director player personnel or scouting before? And the HC is significantly involved as well) makes the decision on a 1st rounder of any kind but a QB - wow, always. Edited December 29, 2013 by YoloInTheBlo

[thebandit27]

 

 

I don't know if I have ever seen anyone regress EVERY week. Ever.

 

I do think he has played worse since he returned from the Cleveland knee injury.

 

Part of that is not improving........part of that is that his weaknesses are accumulating on tape now.

 

Example: the frontside blitz he couldn't see coming against Tampa and that was repeated by Jax.

 

That part is only going to get worse.

 

As for improving.......the Bills have had a procession of QB's come thru with one or two killer weaknesses.....all touted as correctable.........that prevented them from being successful.

 

Manuel has his.

 

Assuming that he will overcome them........or even risking another season to his development alone..... is taking a lot for granted.

 

His best game as a pro came in his 2nd week back from the Cleveland knee injury; not sure how you can say he's been worse since then given that fact.

 

As for the rest; making any conclusion--either that EJ's deficiencies are correctable or not--is misguided. Basing such a decision on what other QBs have done in the past is borderline crazy.

 

 

[BADOLBILZ]

His best game as a pro came in his 2nd week back from the Cleveland knee injury; not sure how you can say he's been worse since then given that fact.

 

As for the rest; making any conclusion--either that EJ's deficiencies are correctable or not--is misguided. Basing such a decision on what other QBs have done in the past is borderline crazy.

 

I'd say his worst two games as a pro ALSO came after his return(Pittsburgh and Tampa) and he played poorly in the Atlanta game as a whole and started frighteningly bad against a decimated Jacksonville team.

 

The bad quarters outweighed the good ones by a lot. And early in the season it wasn't as bad.

 

To me I think the turning point in his season was the Tampa game. Coming off of the Jets game they clearly wanted to see how he would do with balanced playcalling and it was disastrous.

 

A great part of the EJ defense had been that young QB's in recent years had gotten better later in the year and that is the point when that plan got punched in the mouth.

 

I think it was probably a good idea to not play him against NE and not risk an injury OR a disastrous closing performance.

 

I also do believe Thad gives them a slightly better chance tomorrow. They've both been horrible and need Hackett to call 2 runs to every pass in order to succeed but I think Thad being healthier may allow him to make a few extra plays with his feet.

 

As for your other assessment.......there is no better indicator of future results than past ones. Footwork and accuracy were both concerns for JP Losman and Fitz and they weren't correctable. Manuel has like 7 or 8 areas of concern so I am not sure he can get much done in one offseason when he has been well coached going back to HS as a super prep. I think people forget that Thad and EJ haven't been in a shootout all season..........not that much has really been asked of them and when MORE has been asked of them they have not been up to it.

Edited December 29, 2013 by BADOLBEELZ

[BADOLBILZ]

Has it been concluded that Nix wanted to draft EJ and Whaley and Marrone (and Brandon for that matter) disagreed? Typically, this is not how it works. They all would have decided to take him. If they wanted another QB or no QB than Nix would have had to override them. Despite his title at the time, that would have been a HUGE deal especially considering they must have known he was not going to be there to see it through. Just wondering if this was actually said because it seems crazy, the organization (Whaley a big factor as wasn't he director player personnel or scouting before? And the HC is significantly involved as well) makes the decision on a 1st rounder of any kind but a QB - wow, always.

 

I didn't say they disagreed, in fact I think they were probably all in favor of it. Nix just blew it by not selecting a QB sooner. Manuel's season hasn't been encouraging going forward.......even if you excuse the poor play....the injuries to both knees are concern.

[thebandit27]

 

 

I'd say his worst two games as a pro ALSO came after his return(Pittsburgh and Tampa) and he played poorly in the Atlanta game as a whole and started frighteningly bad against a decimated Jacksonville team.

 

The bad quarters outweighed the good ones by a lot. And early in the season it wasn't as bad.

 

To me I think the turning point in his season was the Tampa game. Coming off of the Jets game they clearly wanted to see how he would do with balanced playcalling and it was disastrous.

 

A great part of the EJ defense had been that young QB's in recent years had gotten better later in the year and that is the point when that plan got punched in the mouth.

 

I think it was probably a good idea to not play him against NE and not risk an injury OR a disastrous closing performance.

 

I also do believe Thad gives them a slightly better chance tomorrow. They've both been horrible and need Hackett to call 2 runs to every pass in order to succeed but I think Thad being healthier may allow him to make a few extra plays with his feet.

 

As for your other assessment.......there is no better indicator of future results than past ones. Footwork and accuracy were both concerns for JP Losman and Fitz and they weren't correctable. Manuel has like 7 or 8 areas of concern so I am not sure he can get much done in one offseason when he has been well coached going back to HS as a super prep. I think people forget that Thad and EJ haven't been in a shootout all season..........not that much has really been asked of them and when MORE has been asked of them they have not been up to it.

 

I agree about his worst 2 games; my point isn't that he's been better, but rather about the same.

 

I also don't think. It's fair to say that the bad has outweighed the good, as I believe all games have been a mixed bag from beginning to end.

 

As bad as his start was against Jacksonville, his final 3 quarters were excellent.

 

As inconsistent as he was against Atlanta, he played his best football with the game on the line.

 

To your point about past predicting the future: this isn't the stock market. We're talking about people, and those other players and their deficiencies have zero to do with EJ.

 

I don't see 7 or 8 issues, I see three: lower body mechanics, timing, and--perhaps most of all--confidence. The first two can be corrected rather quickly; it's well within the realm of reason to think that a smart, hard-working kid with lots of physical ability can make that kind of improvement from year 1 to year 2.

 

Confidence is only going to come from better performance on the field.

 

 

 

I didn't say they disagreed, in fact I think they were probably all in favor of it. Nix just blew it by not selecting a QB sooner. Manuel's season hasn't been encouraging going forward.......even if you excuse the poor play....the injuries to both knees are concern.

 

Agreed regarding Nix...history is showing that he should've pulled the trigger on one of Dalton, Kaepernick, or Wilson.

[1billsfan]

How do you get that from hist post? He said "The point is we don't know what EJ Manuel will become.", not that he will develop just like Foles did.

 

Thanks, these guys obviously want people to pick a team. I think that Manuel had an average season for a raw rookie with upside. There's good, bad and ugly to EJ's game. None of us have a clue as to whether he'll be Nick Foles or "fill in name of a bust QB".

 

If a guy like Bortles is there when the Bills pick then I won't throw a fit if they pick him. On the flipside, if they don't go QB in the 1st then I still have faith that the hard working Manuel will dramatically improve with a year under his belt, an upgrade at WR or TE and a couple of upgrades on the OL. That's why I mentioned Foles, his rookie season looked no better than Manuel's.

Edited December 29, 2013 by 1billsfan