Garranimal Posted December 27, 2013 Posted December 27, 2013 BS. He was a rookie asked to run a no huddle offense from the start. Also missing 6 weeks didn't help. Not many rookies were given as much responsibility as EJ was from the jump. But seriously let's draft a qb in the 1st round. And the second he struggles, we can give up on him & draft another guy in the 1st. And then keep doing until we get a pro bowl rookie qb! Wait, i see what you did there...you aren't serious. Or we could draft a QB in the first round who isn't a reach and isn't unanimously considered a project....a long term project for a team that can't afford long term projects at any position. Longshots rarely pay dividends. We are arguing over a QB who to my knowledge has no real defining moment either in college or in the pros. EJ Manuel was never anything special at FSU and was one of those guys that climbed the draft boards but no one knows why.....mostly because of lack of anyone else to talk about during the draft. Its like every presidential election, the candidates all suck....who sucks least? And to answer the next predictable question....Blake Bortles. Or in round two, AJ McCarron or Taj Boyd if he drops.
Kirby Jackson Posted December 27, 2013 Posted December 27, 2013 This isn't meant to be antagonistic but I am wondering what it is that people have seen that make them think that EJ is going to be a player? This is not meant to be a "he's a rookie" conversation. I know that it takes time. This also isn't meant to be a "what do you want them to do take a QB every year" conversation either. I am asking what football traits you have seen that lead you to believe he will be successful? The only thing that I can point to is that I think that he had a few late game drives (Carolina & ATL). I haven't liked his checks, decision making, accuracy or his ability to stay healthy. I don't think that a QB will be coming next year but I am looking for some hope.
YoloinOhio Posted December 27, 2013 Posted December 27, 2013 I don't agree with this statement, but these guys are just trying to get clicks. They love to make over the top statements to incite outrage amongst fan bases. It is their way of staying relevant in an oversaturated world of "reporting." There are plenty of NFL reporters who have said otherwise about EJ and of course some people don't agree with them either. In the end it makes no difference. Neither EJ or Marrone read any of it, or care, I assume.
C.Biscuit97 Posted December 27, 2013 Posted December 27, 2013 This isn't meant to be antagonistic but I am wondering what it is that people have seen that make them think that EJ is going to be a player? This is not meant to be a "he's a rookie" conversation. I know that it takes time. This also isn't meant to be a "what do you want them to do take a QB every year" conversation either. I am asking what football traits you have seen that lead you to believe he will be successful? The only thing that I can point to is that I think that he had a few late game drives (Carolina & ATL). I haven't liked his checks, decision making, accuracy or his ability to stay healthy. I don't think that a QB will be coming next year but I am looking for some hope. 1 - leadership. Came in day 1 & got the respect of the lockerroom. 2 - bounce back ability. He had his worst start against TB & started off awful against Jax. He finished that game up on fire. 1st game Jets, 2nd game Jets (after a bad Pitt one). The guy didn't tell anyone his mother had cancer last year & played for a title contender. This is a huge asset for a qb. 3) arm strength. I was at the jets game. After conditions & windy. It didn't matter with EJ's arm. 4) timing with Wrs. Because of the injuries, ej has struggled with constant practice with his guys. In short, I have no idea if EJ will be the man or not. But in years before fans become completely irrational, his rookie year certainly would have been enough for a 2nd year starting. The biggest question with me is the injuries.
thebandit27 Posted December 27, 2013 Posted December 27, 2013 This isn't meant to be antagonistic but I am wondering what it is that people have seen that make them think that EJ is going to be a player? This is not meant to be a "he's a rookie" conversation. I know that it takes time. This also isn't meant to be a "what do you want them to do take a QB every year" conversation either. I am asking what football traits you have seen that lead you to believe he will be successful? The only thing that I can point to is that I think that he had a few late game drives (Carolina & ATL). I haven't liked his checks, decision making, accuracy or his ability to stay healthy. I don't think that a QB will be coming next year but I am looking for some hope. Start by watching his work against the Jets' D in week 11. A QB that can do that in a 30 mph wind can play in this league.
1billsfan Posted December 27, 2013 Author Posted December 27, 2013 (edited) This isn't meant to be antagonistic but I am wondering what it is that people have seen that make them think that EJ is going to be a player? This is not meant to be a "he's a rookie" conversation. I know that it takes time. This also isn't meant to be a "what do you want them to do take a QB every year" conversation either. I am asking what football traits you have seen that lead you to believe he will be successful? The only thing that I can point to is that I think that he had a few late game drives (Carolina & ATL). I haven't liked his checks, decision making, accuracy or his ability to stay healthy. I don't think that a QB will be coming next year but I am looking for some hope. I'll answer it this way. Look up Nick Foles 2012 rookie season and compare it to EJ Manuels 2013 season. They are almost carbon copies. Currently Nick Foles has the #1 QB rating in the league, even over Peyton Manning. Now look at who each rookie had coaching them in their rookie seasons... Nick Foles / rookie season 2012 Head Coach: Andy Reed (14 year HC) Offensive Coordinator: Marty Mornhinweg (12 years experience as an OC) Top Five Receptions: Jeremy Maclin, Brian Celek, LeShan McCoy, Jason Avant, DeShawn Jackson EJ Manuel / rookie season 2013 Head Coach: Doug Marrone (rookie HC) Offensive Coordinator: Nathaniel Hackett (rookie OC) Top Five Receptions: Stevie Johnson, Scott Chandler, Fred Jackson, Robert Woods, CJ Spiller The point is that we don't know what EJ Manuel will become. But there is still the posibility that he can do what Nick Foles is doing if given competent coaching and an upgrade at who the targets he's throwing to are. Foles was a nobody after last year, really he was an afterthought regarding Chip's plans at the position. Edited December 27, 2013 by 1billsfan
C.Biscuit97 Posted December 27, 2013 Posted December 27, 2013 It doesn't negate the fact that they need to draft another QB to hedge their bet. I'd like to see the Bills pull that trigger in the first round. I really don't see any of this years Qbs haven't much more upside than EJ. Like pretty much every year, there are a ton of questions on every prospect. Personally, I'd rather use the first 2 picks on a big target (TE and or wr), oline, or possibly a defensive player. I hate the idea of using back yo back 1st rounders on Qbs, especially with this group. If a guy like Aaron Murray slips to the 3rd, sure. But to give on EJ after one year is the exact opposite of how you build a franchise.
Dibs Posted December 27, 2013 Posted December 27, 2013 ......In short, if they think that they have a chance at a QB that they think will be elite, they should not pass on him simply because Manuel is on the roster. Jmo. I think the above is a very good way to word things. A team rarely gets the chance to draft a QB who they think will be elite. If one is available they should pull the trigger on him regardless of having another potential(but not proven) elite prospect. I personally haven't given up on EJ.......but the concept of having two EJs on the roster only increases the likelihood that one of them will become the guy.....regardless of the fact that progression time would likely be hindered for one or both of them. I am doubtful that there will be a QB available to them whom they think will be elite......but I certainly won't be upset(or feel that they have given up on EJ) if they select one in the 1st round.
Garranimal Posted December 27, 2013 Posted December 27, 2013 I'll answer it this way. Look up Nick Foles 2012 rookie season and compare it to EJ Manuels 2013 season. They are almost carbon copies. Currently Nick Foles has the #1 QB rating in the league, even over Peyton Manning. Now look at who each rookie had coaching them in their rookie seasons... Nick Foles / rookie season 2012 Head Coach: Andy Reed (14 year HC) Offensive Coordinator: Marty Mornhinweg (12 years experience as an OC) Top Five Receptions: Jeremy Maclin, Brian Celek, LeShan McCoy, Jason Avant, DeShawn Jackson EJ Manuel / rookie season 2013 Head Coach: Doug Marrone (rookie HC) Offensive Coordinator: Nathaniel Hackett (rookie OC) Top Five Receptions: Stevie Johnson, Scott Chandler, Fred Jackson, Robert Woods, CJ Spiller The point is that we don't know what EJ Manuel will become. But there is still the posibility that he can do what Nick Foles is doing if given competent coaching and an upgrade at who the targets he's throwing to are. Foles was a nobody after last year, really he was an afterthought regarding Chip's plans at the position. And, after all, because someone else did it, naturally EJ will too. So by the excuses thrown out in this thread, EJ will succeed no matter what metric is applied because if you look long and hard enough, you will find someone with a worse metric who got better.. Got it, case closed. The problem is, using that logic, there is no point in evaluating anything......this is the Jerry Springer mentality.....I am not mentally deranged because clearly i see people on TV who are much worse than me. Why 14 years of futility......wait.................
John from Riverside Posted December 28, 2013 Posted December 28, 2013 After 14 years of futility the bills used a 1st round pick on a quarterback.......that is what they did now you want them to do it again. And what becomes of the other positions on the team that are in need of playmakers? We only have 1 first round pick you know.
Dibs Posted December 28, 2013 Posted December 28, 2013 And, after all, because someone else did it, naturally EJ will too. So by the excuses thrown out in this thread, EJ will succeed no matter what metric is applied because if you look long and hard enough, you will find someone with a worse metric who got better.. Got it, case closed. The problem is, using that logic, there is no point in evaluating anything......this is the Jerry Springer mentality.....I am not mentally deranged because clearly i see people on TV who are much worse than me. Why 14 years of futility......wait................. How do you get that from hist post? He said "The point is we don't know what EJ Manuel will become.", not that he will develop just like Foles did.
thebandit27 Posted December 28, 2013 Posted December 28, 2013 How do you get that from hist post? He said "The point is we don't know what EJ Manuel will become.", not that he will develop just like Foles did. Because if you look hard enough, you can call anyone an apologist.
bocheu Posted December 28, 2013 Posted December 28, 2013 (edited) Not even Schopp comes close to saying that. But please continue, EJ fans Jesus every time i see you comment something it's the worst. I can't wait until EJ gets a full off season and improves next year. With some better offensive play/lineman we will easily make the playoffs. Please don't mention Schopp he's literally the worst radio personality i've ever heard. I hope John Bon Jovi comes to town- buys you both- and moves you to Canada. Edited December 28, 2013 by bocheu
Garranimal Posted December 28, 2013 Posted December 28, 2013 How do you get that from hist post? He said "The point is we don't know what EJ Manuel will become.", not that he will develop just like Foles did. Followed by: "But there is still the posibility that he can do what Nick Foles is doing if given competent coaching and an upgrade at who the targets he's throwing to are." That is how i got that out of what was said....easy...all you had to do was include the VERY NEXT sentence.
CodeMonkey Posted December 28, 2013 Posted December 28, 2013 After 14 years of futility the bills used a 1st round pick on a quarterback.......that is what they did now you want them to do it again. And what becomes of the other positions on the team that are in need of playmakers? We only have 1 first round pick you know. Yup. We as fans have to hope and trust that the FO has a good read on Manuel and will either: a) Correct their previous mistake (or hedge their bet) by getting another QB this draft or b) Know they have a good QB and fill the other holes in the team We only get to see so much, the Bills coaches and FO have much more data to work from.
Garranimal Posted December 28, 2013 Posted December 28, 2013 Yup. We as fans have to hope and trust that the FO has a good read on Manuel and will either: a) Correct their previous mistake (or hedge their bet) by getting another QB this draft or b) Know they have a good QB and fill the other holes in the team We only get to see so much, the Bills coaches and FO have much more data to work from. Talk about a leap of faith.....trusting this organization to make good personnel decisions is like expecting the AD at Tennessee to hire a good coach.
CodeMonkey Posted December 28, 2013 Posted December 28, 2013 Talk about a leap of faith.....trusting this organization to make good personnel decisions is like expecting the AD at Tennessee to hire a good coach. Well they are supposed to know much more than us and do have access to much more material on Manuel than we have, so ... But I know what you mean, 14 years and counting of suck can do that to you
RyanC883 Posted December 28, 2013 Posted December 28, 2013 I am not sure that I disagree with him. They dumbed down the playbook in week 14. He made poor reads and audibles. EJ struggles with accuracy. I have been one to support him but have not seen anything that tells me that he is going to be a quality NFL starter. 100% agree with this post. I REALLY thought he would be a great QB. But he regresses every week even after they dumb down the playbook. My hope was he would be a Big Ben type of QB, then a Andy Dalton mediocre QB, not I'm not sure he is more than a long term backup. Small sample size, but the FO cannot go into next season with a large ? at the most important position on the team. We must add a vet FA. Schwab would be a good addition IMO (assuming he is cut).
Garranimal Posted December 28, 2013 Posted December 28, 2013 100% agree with this post. I REALLY thought he would be a great QB. But he regresses every week even after they dumb down the playbook. My hope was he would be a Big Ben type of QB, then a Andy Dalton mediocre QB, not I'm not sure he is more than a long term backup. Small sample size, but the FO cannot go into next season with a large ? at the most important position on the team. We must add a vet FA. Schwab would be a good addition IMO (assuming he is cut). Charles Schwab? He could beef up everyone's portfolio.
thebandit27 Posted December 28, 2013 Posted December 28, 2013 Talk about a leap of faith.....trusting this organization to make good personnel decisions is like expecting the AD at Tennessee to hire a good coach. Yeah, because this team (and more importantly this regime) has proven it cannot beat other teams to good talent in the draft, free agency, or rookie UDFAs. That's why we always miss out on guys like Kiko Alonzo, Manny Lawson, and Nickell Robey. Oh wait, perhaps railing on this regime for their personnel decisions is silly at this point. 100% agree with this post. I REALLY thought he would be a great QB. But he regresses every week even after they dumb down the playbook. My hope was he would be a Big Ben type of QB, then a Andy Dalton mediocre QB, not I'm not sure he is more than a long term backup. Small sample size, but the FO cannot go into next season with a large ? at the most important position on the team. We must add a vet FA. Schwab would be a good addition IMO (assuming he is cut). Saying that he regresses every week is flat out wrong. He played poorly against Pittsburgh, then came back strong against the Jets; ba against Tampa, but played very well after the 1st quarter of the Jax game (unless we're now going to call 17-20 with 2 TDs/0INTs and a rushing TD a poor performance, in which case I'm out of this discussion). Nobody can say if EJ will be the guy it not at this point, but some of the trash ive read on this board the last two weeks is embarrassing to football fans everywhere. He isn't regressing every week. He hasn't been outplayed by Thad Lewis. He isn't soft. None of those things have any backing in reality, yet I read them here daily... It's unbelievable.
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