Alex Carrington.... i don't get it

[NoSaint]

 

 

I think...Had he stayed healthy...Alex might have played his way into a big enough deal to assure he priced himself out of Buffalo...But now that's completely up in the air...I definitely like Carrington...Maybe a bit more than others around here...I think had he played all year, once he got used to this new Defense, he would have been a really big piece down the stretch...And still can be if he comes back...I'm thinking the best thing for him may be to take a one year deal with the Bills if he does not get an outrageous offer elsewhere...If Carrington comes back I think the Bills are 100% set at D-Line, and they can cross that off the needs list...I'm really hoping he comes back to Buffalo and stays healthy next year...Can't have enough athletes on that D-Line...And Carrington at 100% is a solid player who can make plays in the backfield from time to time...That being said I'm quite sure the extension to Branch was an insurance policy in case Carrington moves on...

 

im definitely a carrington fan, was just replying to the OPs assertion that there was some sort of pedestal he was being put on. i dont think thats the case at all. hes a very good contributor who has proven he has a spot in the league. due to a variety of circumstances almost wholly out of his control, he hasnt been able to prove what that spot really is though. in this case i dont think he will be a guy paid on potential, as much as one that is punished for lack of production come contract time. for the bills, thats not a bad thing though as he would be a low risk high reward signing potentially. at the very least i think his floor come contract time is being a good value even if he amounts to just a role player.

[thebandit27]

If Parker is smart, he's going to advise his client that his best chance for a huge pay day is to sign a one-year "prove it" deal--somewhere--and have a monster season in 2014.

 

Now, if I were Alex, I'd want to give myself the best chance to flourish in that scenario, which I think would be with players, coaches, and surroundings that are familiar.

 

I have no trouble believing that the team can replace him if he leaves; I think it's in his best interest, long-term, to sign a 1-year deal here and play his butt off.

 

Just my 1 cent...

[NoSaint]

If Parker is smart, he's going to advise his client that his best chance for a huge pay day is to sign a one-year "prove it" deal--somewhere--and have a monster season in 2014.

 

Now, if I were Alex, I'd want to give myself the best chance to flourish in that scenario, which I think would be with players, coaches, and surroundings that are familiar.

 

I have no trouble believing that the team can replace him if he leaves; I think it's in his best interest, long-term, to sign a 1-year deal here and play his butt off.

 

Just my 1 cent...

 

unless theres a surprise in the market and some other coach has fallen in love with him in another city, or he has some sort of tie we are unaware of - it makes total sense to go that approach. and as much parker hate as there is here, he tends not to be an idiot and would likely be able to see the value there, assuming there werent back or side stories that we arent aware of. as far as we know the coaches seem to like him, he seems to be ok with buffalo (i dont recall anything suggesting otherwise, beyond the fact that weve asked him to do A LOT)

[mountainwampus]

Megahand doesn't just block kicks, he bats a lot of passes. He knows how to clog throwing lanes and get his arms in the way of the QB's ideal pass. I've seen him stuff runs while being double teamed. Lots of details that don't show up on the stat sheet. He's a keeper. Pettine needs DT/DE tweeners like him and Branch.

[John from Riverside]

One thing do have going for us with Carrington is this IS a good defense now....with the potential to be even more dominant next year......take Branch for example who is a quality starting player.......would we have had a shot at signing him before this year?

 

Defensive players will WANT to play on this defense

[ganesh]

He should though. He has not been very good vs there run and he is certainly not better against it than Branch.

 

So if Branch plays on run downs and Hughes on passing downs, where does that leave Carrington? Depth?

+1. You always put your Best Players on the field.

[vincec]

I'd like for the Bills to try and keep him as a rotational player who still has a high upside. Offer him a contract similar to Branch's.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

I'd like for the Bills to try and keep him as a rotational player who still has a high upside.

 

Offer him a contract similar to Branch's.

 

That's way too much money for Carrington IMO.

[Buffaloed in Pa]

He`s not needed....IF his agent and he,want crazy money. Seeya Alex.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

His players would disagree with you. As would I. Crabtree's the only one I can think of, and can we be sure it was Parker who wanted to do that and not Crabtree himself?

 

Outside of the Crabtree holdout, where has he caused problems for his players? Just the opposite, He's caused a lot of problems for teams not willing to pay market value, but he hasn't hurt his players interest. What distinctions does Parker's research slur over? Peters got what he wanted. Byrd almost certainly will to if the Bills don't sign him. You said his players generally get his asking price, so in what way is he hurting the long-term interests of his players?

 

Fair questions, and in many ways touches on intangibles.

 

I'm sure the players think he's a good guy, and not intending to imply that I think he does anything but represent his players best interest, as he sees it.

In many ways it comes down to the question "what is the players best interest, overall" or "is it always in the best interest of players to go for the biggest contract they can get, to "get his asking price"?

 

You point out one of the factors yourself- an NFL career is relatively short, and after-football earnings depend a lot upon the name recognition, the "brand", a player builds.

For one example of what I mean, Dan Dierdorf had huge name recognition in St Louis which led to a lucrative and prolonged post-career income as a St Louis advertising shill and enterprenuer. For a player to "jump teams" following the $$ may be a good thing for their short-term football earning potential, but may hamper their ability to "build their brand" and enable their post-career earnings, especially if they are not able to be as successful or have as much of a name with the new team.

 

Crabtree, whom you bring up, is one example. I'm sure it's what Crabtree wanted to do, which begs the question "why did he want to do it?" I don't think we can slough off Parker's influence there too easily, especially as Deion Saunders, who was a "confidante", is also a noteable Parker client. It took Crabtree until 2012 to have the kind of season expected of a #10 overall draftpick. Did holding out for the contract Parker thought he deserved hurt his short-term football income, no. Did it hurt his ability to make a name and build his "brand" to position himself as a top receiver in the league and win endorsement deals etc, quite plausibly.

 

Did it really help Steven Jackson, in terms of brand, to void the last year of his Rams contract and jump to the Falcons? Again, you can ask "was it what Jackson wanted to do?" but I don't think you can slough off the influence of the "lifetime agent" Parker "regarded as a good guy" by the players. It got him a new 3 year contract with a worse team than the Rams, as it turned out, and instead of riding his 8 years of St Louis "name recognition" for being one of the few amazing players on a mediocre team into home-town endorsement fervor a la Dierdorf, he now seems poised to slither into mediocre post-NFL obscurity, making headlines only as "is Steven Jackson still an elite talent?"

 

Third potential example, did it help Tyson Jackson to hold out for KC in 2009? It took him until this year to stop wearing the "bust" tag. DId it hurt him to hold out from his rookie training camp? Again, intangibles - team around him, scheme, coaching - but it surely didn't help him. And that's 3 years of "brand building" that's lost.

 

Distinctions he blurs - free safety money vs strong safety money comes to mind.

 

I'm sure Byrd can get the $$ Parker wants somewhere in the league. Will it be to his long term benefit over sticking with a Buffalo team that appears on the verge of building a nationally ranked D, and building a brand in Buffalo? Hard to tell.

 

My point is that "earning the most $$ as an NFL player" and "long term benefit of the player" may not be as synchronous as Parker and his clients appear to believe.

 

As for arguing my point any more: Take it or leave it

[San Jose Bills Fan]

My point is that "earning the most $$ as an NFL player" and "long term benefit of the player" may not be as synchronous as Parker and his clients appear to believe.

 

Good point however it's counterbalanced by the adage that "one in the hand is better than two in the bush."

[RJ (not THAT RJ)]

Hopeful really nailed it in his comment. I think that is the choice that many players face. Nate Clements (not a Parker client, of course) is another example of a player who made a ton of bucks, but did not build much of a brand. I hope he invested well...

 

Hopeful's post below [my quoting function is busted… again! Thanks, Safari!]

 

Fair questions, and in many ways touches on intangibles.

 

I'm sure the players think he's a good guy, and not intending to imply that I think he does anything but represent his players best interest, as he sees it.

In many ways it comes down to the question "what is the players best interest, overall" or "is it always in the best interest of players to go for the biggest contract they can get, to "get his asking price"?

 

You point out one of the factors yourself- an NFL career is relatively short, and after-football earnings depend a lot upon the name recognition, the "brand", a player builds.

For one example of what I mean, Dan Dierdorf had huge name recognition in St Louis which led to a lucrative and prolonged post-career income as a St Louis advertising shill and enterprenuer. For a player to "jump teams" following the $$ may be a good thing for their short-term football earning potential, but may hamper their ability to "build their brand" and enable their post-career earnings, especially if they are not able to be as successful or have as much of a name with the new team.

 

Crabtree, whom you bring up, is one example. I'm sure it's what Crabtree wanted to do, which begs the question "why did he want to do it?" I don't think we can slough off Parker's influence there too easily, especially as Deion Saunders, who was a "confidante", is also a noteable Parker client. It took Crabtree until 2012 to have the kind of season expected of a #10 overall draftpick. Did holding out for the contract Parker thought he deserved hurt his short-term football income, no. Did it hurt his ability to make a name and build his "brand" to position himself as a top receiver in the league and win endorsement deals etc, quite plausibly.

 

Did it really help Steven Jackson, in terms of brand, to void the last year of his Rams contract and jump to the Falcons? Again, you can ask "was it what Jackson wanted to do?" but I don't think you can slough off the influence of the "lifetime agent" Parker "regarded as a good guy" by the players. It got him a new 3 year contract with a worse team than the Rams, as it turned out, and instead of riding his 8 years of St Louis "name recognition" for being one of the few amazing players on a mediocre team into home-town endorsement fervor a la Dierdorf, he now seems poised to slither into mediocre post-NFL obscurity, making headlines only as "is Steven Jackson still an elite talent?"

 

Third potential example, did it help Tyson Jackson to hold out for KC in 2009? It took him until this year to stop wearing the "bust" tag. DId it hurt him to hold out from his rookie training camp? Again, intangibles - team around him, scheme, coaching - but it surely didn't help him. And that's 3 years of "brand building" that's lost.

 

Distinctions he blurs - free safety money vs strong safety money comes to mind.

 

I'm sure Byrd can get the $$ Parker wants somewhere in the league. Will it be to his long term benefit over sticking with a Buffalo team that appears on the verge of building a nationally ranked D, and building a brand in Buffalo? Hard to tell.

 

My point is that "earning the most $$ as an NFL player" and "long term benefit of the player" may not be as synchronous as Parker and his clients appear to believe.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Not everyone can build a brand, even if they spent their entire career in one market.

 

Does Darryl Talley have a "brand?"

 

How much money do guys like Bruce Smith, Andre Reed, and Thurman Thomas make based on their reputations?

 

The recipe for personal brand success is a combination of professional individual success, team success, market size, likeability, and probably some other stuff that are impossible to measure.

 

Again, one in the hand is better than two in the bush.

 

You take the money.

 

You don't take less money on the miniscule chance that it will somehow benefit you in the future.

[3rdand12]

Exactly which is why there's probably less than a 50% chance that he returns.

 

I think some team out there desperate for D-linemen will offer him borderline starter's money.

 

Especially in view of Parker's relationship with the Bills, I think Carrington's departure is a fait accompli.

I might disagree. to some degree SJBF.

1. thats a guess at best . I would guess opposite.

2 Quite likely true+ but injury and small production sample might be in Bills favor here. Excepting special teams.

3 i dont want to presume anything at this point. Lets wait till we hear of some posturing .

 

I think keeping Alex and calling him defensive end would be nice .

Definitely something to keep an eye out for because i think he is would add good value to the Bills

 

The listing at DE is not definitive. The reason Carrington appeals to me is not just his ability but his versatility .

[San Jose Bills Fan]

I might disagree. to some degree SJBF.

1. thats a guess at best . I would guess opposite.

2 Quite likely true+ but injury and small production sample might be in Bills favor here. Excepting special teams.

3 i dont want to presume anything at this point. Lets wait till we hear of some posturing .

 

I think keeping Alex and calling him defensive end would be nice .

Definitely something to keep an eye out for because i think he is would add good value to the Bills

 

The listing at DE is not definitive. The reason Carrington appeals to me is not just his ability but his versatility .

 

I understand your reasoning but I think that if there is interest in Carrington and the Bills can find a serviceable O-lineman at a comparable price that they'll go in that direction.

 

And while I like Carrington, it could certainly be argued that he was not missed at all this season.

[Martifal]

Carrington in my opinion has not played enough under the current regime to make any clear statement about.

if they like him still sign him. Simple enough

Some folks here have a Eugene Parker hangover. Rightly so , but Bills wont overpay for what appears a rotational guy .

As a defensive starter prior to 2013 Leodis Mckelvin had first round bust written all over him, look what they gave him and what he did this year. If the current regime really likes AC don't be surprised what they give him.

[3rdand12]

As a defensive starter prior to 2013 Leodis Mckelvin had first round bust written all over him, look what they gave him and what he did this year. If the current regime really likes AC don't be surprised what they give him.

Marrone has mentioned a number of times Carrington. After he was injured for the season !

i think they like him. But he will have to show a full recovery from injury to get to the bargaining table .

Hope its a one year to prove yourself deal with secret handshakes. Like i might have mentioned thats a nearly complete defensive line. add some super fat and tall NT space eating unmovable object fresh from college and you might have something !

Go Bills Dline!

 

Whats fair value for Carrington all said ?

 

He`s not needed....IF his agent and he,want crazy money. Seeya Alex.

Whats fair value for Carrington all said ?

[RyanC883]

Some team will overpay. Save money and pay Byrd. Draft Aaron Donald.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Good point however it's counterbalanced by the adage that "one in the hand is better than two in the bush."

 

After reading the "cockney" post in the EJ Manuel thread I'm sure you realize how this can be interpreted. And I thought this was a "family" board

 

If Parker is smart, he's going to advise his client that his best chance for a huge pay day is to sign a one-year "prove it" deal--somewhere--and have a monster season in 2014.

 

Players (and their agents) rightfully hate 1 year deals. If the player is injured, the Big Payday in the Sky will remain there. If for reasons beyond his control (coaching, scheme, team) he can't have that monster season he's capable of, ditto.

 

Parker is undoubtedly smart, and will be pushing hard to get his client a solid multi-year deal.

 

Hopeful really nailed it in his comment. I think that is the choice that many players face. Nate Clements (not a Parker client, of course) is another example of a player who made a ton of bucks, but did not build much of a brand. I hope he invested well...

 

Thanks for the kind words. I think there's a case to be made for a valid counterpoint that many players who could build brands and build a career, don't, so maximize the football earnings while you can. I do think it's an overlooked point that the money a guy makes in a short NFL career is potentially only part of his career earnings.

Edited December 29, 2013 by Hopeful