Kaz Posted December 24, 2013 Posted December 24, 2013 Jeez, talk about taking a potato light bulb and turning it into a nuclear reactor. Too much holiday spirits for some of you. Bottom line: Would the Bills have had a bigger advantage playing at the Ralph or in Toronto? If you're being honest with yourself, you know the answer. And that is the essence of the OP's point. Not to dissect 14 other games. We're talking about that one game. We'd most likely beat Atlanta in our true element and, at 7-8, we'd still have a playoff pulse. Period, end of story, stop being purposely dense!
BillnutinHouston Posted December 24, 2013 Posted December 24, 2013 There's a competition among owners to earn the most, and while Buffalo won't compete with Dallas or NYC, playing in Toronto moves them closer in that race. Give me a break - the Bills are not even trying to run in that race. How many investor groups are salivating at the opportunity to run a franchise in an area that commands the lowest ticket and suite prices in the league? Do you not think that cultivating the Toronto market, or even attempting to, has any impact on where the next owner decides to locate the team?
B-Man Posted December 24, 2013 Posted December 24, 2013 I gotta think anyone who doesn't understand why the man is pointing out that a SELF IMPOSED disadvantage could potentially have had negative consequences, is trying really really hard not to get it. Amen. 7- Home 9 - away getting into the playoffs would sell more tickets, than crossing the border. It has NOTHING to do with fumbles.
NoSaint Posted December 25, 2013 Posted December 25, 2013 (edited) I gotta think anyone who doesn't understand why the man is pointing out that a SELF IMPOSED disadvantage could potentially have had negative consequences, is trying really really hard not to get it. Could have, but truly, seeming had no effect on our playoff chances at 6-9 with 4 teams between us and the wildcard Jeez, talk about taking a potato light bulb and turning it into a nuclear reactor. Too much holiday spirits for some of you. Bottom line: Would the Bills have had a bigger advantage playing at the Ralph or in Toronto? If you're being honest with yourself, you know the answer. And that is the essence of the OP's point. Not to dissect 14 other games. We're talking about that one game. We'd most likely beat Atlanta in our true element and, at 7-8, we'd still have a playoff pulse. Period, end of story, stop being purposely dense! Even if we got into the big mess of a tie, would we have won it? Otherwise, that's not a pulse still. Edited December 25, 2013 by NoSaint
GG Posted December 25, 2013 Posted December 25, 2013 (edited) Buffalo doesn't have the same advantage in a dome as any other team? Strange reasoning and magical thinking are fueling the OP's (and others) arguments. The Bills don't have as much of an advantage in a dome as Atlanta has a disadvantage in an away outdoor field. The numbers prove that out. That's the point. Nothing more nothing less. The Bills administration added another element of downside to a team that needed all the help it could get this year. Yes, they beat themselves in a lot of games. Too bad the front office added another element to it. Edited December 25, 2013 by GG
PromoTheRobot Posted December 25, 2013 Posted December 25, 2013 Did Stevie and Chandler fumble because of the bright dome lights?
Hapless Bills Fan Posted December 25, 2013 Posted December 25, 2013 (edited) Admittedly, I don't know where the Bills fall along the tiebreaker spectrum vis-a-vis the five 8-7 and 7-8 AFC teams, but if they had played the Atlanta game in Orchard Park, the Bills would in all likelihood be 7-8 right now. If that was the case, next Sunday's game against NE could be be truly meaningful. Someone needs to raise that with Brandon. The Toronto series has to end. I personally despise the Toronto series, but not winning enough against sucky teams we should beat the snot from wherever, whenever cost the Bills a playoff spot. Edited December 25, 2013 by Hopeful
FireChan Posted December 25, 2013 Posted December 25, 2013 (edited) This is just another "Russ Brandon must be the reason we suck" thread, because Lord knows this team can't just not be talented enough to beat teams with records below .250. This might have been the most favorable match up the Bills have ever had in Toronto. To giveaway that game is their own fault. We talk about "changing the culture," well wins like this change the culture and losses make us losers. Give any playoff team a 14 point lead to the Falcons and they win decisively. Every time in Toronto or England or the Arctic Circle. Our coaches preach accountability and the fan base can't get it through their heads. The Bills lost that game. Gilmore being unable to cover. The entire defense for letting them back in it. Stevie and Chandler for fumbling. Not the crowd or the atmosphere. This topic is unbearable. We didn't blame the "conditions" when "wide right" happened. We didn't blame the "hostile crowd" when Stevie dropped the game winner in the end zone against the Steelers. We didn't blame "greedy Russ Brandon" when Fitz threw a game losing interception and George Wilson dropped a game winning interception against the Titans. Time to grow up guys. Playoff teams win games to get in the playoffs. Non playoff teams don't. Edited December 25, 2013 by FireChan
SoulMan Posted December 25, 2013 Posted December 25, 2013 The two fumbles were the difference btw playoff mix and out. They would have occurred in either stadium because the falcons out hustled the Bills on those two plays. Stop wining about Toronto. It is necessary because Buffalo is the second smallest market in the league.
Leelee Phoenix Posted December 25, 2013 Posted December 25, 2013 It's understandable to build the team's market, but in no way is it necessary.
dwight in philly Posted December 25, 2013 Posted December 25, 2013 (edited) Jeez, talk about taking a potato light bulb and turning it into a nuclear reactor. Too much holiday spirits for some of you. Bottom line: Would the Bills have had a bigger advantage playing at the Ralph or in Toronto? If you're being honest with yourself, you know the answer. And that is the essence of the OP's point. Not to dissect 14 other games. We're talking about that one game. We'd most likely beat Atlanta in our true element and, at 7-8, we'd still have a playoff pulse. Period, end of story, stop being purposely dense! thanks for adding a bit of common senses here.. the OP point was valid, and was spot on.. but naturally lots of the usual blowhards on here have to knock each other over fighting to be the smartest guy in the room by over analyzing the premise. Edited December 25, 2013 by dwight in philly
timtebow15 Posted December 25, 2013 Posted December 25, 2013 I'm tired of the excuses. We've had five years to get used to the Toronto game as a home game. It's certainly not an away game. At worst it is a neutral site game. We lost the game because we fumbled it away like we have done at home plenty of times when we were in an important game. If a game a year helps keep the team in Buffalo than I'm all for it. And the players need to make it their home just like they need to win at home and learn how to win on the road. We are so close to being a good team and it shouldn't matter where we play!
FireChan Posted December 25, 2013 Posted December 25, 2013 (edited) thanks for adding a bit of common senses here.. the OP point was valid, and was spot on.. but naturally lots of the usual blowhards on here have to knock each other over fighting to be the smartest guy in the room by over analyzing the premise. The premise is invalid if the Bills were good. They aren't. If the Bills were any good, the Toronto game would be a home game. And losing the game in the way we did shows that we aren't good. 14 point lead to a team that had nothing to play for and we let them get back in it? That's on the Toronto "atmosphere?" Not the team? The two fumbles is on the atmosphere? And those who can't see the potential value in a Toronto fanbase in keeping the team in Buffalo are too short sighted. I don't care about one less home game if it's the difference between 6-10 and 7-9. The same fans that complain about the Toronto series are the ones that don't buy tickets in November and December. We weren't even selling out games PRIOR to the Toronto game. I would even go as far to say if we weren't mathematically eliminated for the Phins game, it wouldn't sell out. Not by a long shot. How is that Toronto's fault? How any one picks this game out of any of our losses as though it's more valid is absolutely dumbfounding. Edited December 25, 2013 by FireChan
GG Posted December 25, 2013 Posted December 25, 2013 (edited) The premise is invalid if the Bills were good. They aren't. If the Bills were any good, the Toronto game would be a home game. And losing the game in the way we did shows that we aren't good. 14 point lead to a team that had nothing to play for and we let them get back in it? That's on the Toronto "atmosphere?" Not the team? The two fumbles is on the atmosphere? And those who can't see the potential value in a Toronto fanbase in keeping the team in Buffalo are too short sighted. I don't care about one less home game if it's the difference between 6-10 and 7-9. The same fans that complain about the Toronto series are the ones that don't buy tickets in November and December. We weren't even selling out games PRIOR to the Toronto game. I would even go as far to say if we weren't mathematically eliminated for the Phins game, it wouldn't sell out. Not by a long shot. How is that Toronto's fault? How any one picks this game out of any of our losses as though it's more valid is absolutely dumbfounding. No, the premise is that as a middling team, the Bills need all the breaks they can get. Playing a game in Toronto isn't a break. Why is it hard to comprehend that the Toronto game gave Falcons a gift. It's immaterial that Stevie and chandler fumbled. The thesis is that Falcons wouldn't have been even close if the game is in Orchard Park. And if you want to see a difference the home fans make, compare 50k in Orchard Park last weekend vs 50k at the dome a month ago. Edited December 25, 2013 by GG
FireChan Posted December 25, 2013 Posted December 25, 2013 (edited) No, the premise is that as a middling team, the Bills need all the breaks they can get. Playing a game in Toronto isn't a break. Why is it hard to comprehend that the Toronto game gave Falcons a gift. It's immaterial that Stevie and chandler fumbled. The thesis is that Falcons wouldn't have been even close if the game is in Orchard Park. And if you want to see a difference the home fans make, compare 50k in Orchard Park last weekend vs 50k at the dome a month ago. So what? You and the rest of the anti-Toronto series crowd are gambling this one loss that the team GREATLY contributed to is not worth keeping the Bills economically viable in the area? Who knows how the game would have played out in the Ralph? To say that it is a disadvantage that can make or break our season is a testament to our ineptness and the uncertainty of it "not even being close" at home. Does Spiller break off huge runs in the elements? How packed was Raymond James Stadium when we got blown out? Are we gonna look at our home field success this year as a barometer for our chances? Pretty sure we're just around .500 at home. What about our late November and December home games? Oh, under .500 again? Doesn't sound like such an advantage to me. Especially when it's weighed against keeping the Bills here. Like I said, if you're so anti-Toronto, buy tickets and attend every home game. Not enough money for it? You're the reason it exists. Moved out of the area? You're the reason it exists. Don't want to freeze for meaningless games? You're the reason it exists. If you don't go to every home game, you don't deserve to be anti-Toronto. You want the team to be given a break? Time to pony up some cash. Edited December 25, 2013 by FireChan
SoulMan Posted December 25, 2013 Posted December 25, 2013 So what? You and the rest of the anti-Toronto series crowd are gambling this one loss that the team GREATLY contributed to is not worth keeping the Bills economically viable in the area? Who knows how the game would have played out in the Ralph? To say that it is a disadvantage that can make or break our season is a testament to our ineptness and the uncertainty of it "not even being close" at home. Does Spiller break off huge runs in the elements? How packed was Raymond James Stadium when we got blown out? Are we gonna look at our home field success this year as a barometer for our chances? Pretty sure we're just around .500 at home. What about our late November and December home games? Oh, under .500 again? Doesn't sound like such an advantage to me. Especially when it's weighed against keeping the Bills here. Like I said, if you're so anti-Toronto, buy tickets and attend every home game. Not enough money for it? You're the reason it exists. Moved out of the area? You're the reason it exists. Don't want to freeze for meaningless games? You're the reason it exists. If you don't go to every home game, you don't deserve to be anti-Toronto. You want the team to be given a break? Time to pony up some cash. FireChan nailed it. Of course a playoff team would fix a lot.
NoSaint Posted December 25, 2013 Posted December 25, 2013 No, the premise is that as a middling team, the Bills need all the breaks they can get. Playing a game in Toronto isn't a break. Why is it hard to comprehend that the Toronto game gave Falcons a gift. It's immaterial that Stevie and chandler fumbled. The thesis is that Falcons wouldn't have been even close if the game is in Orchard Park. And if you want to see a difference the home fans make, compare 50k in Orchard Park last weekend vs 50k at the dome a month ago. What do you think the odds are of a bills win in Toronto vs the odds of in buffalo? While I'd expect a small swing, this thread has made it sound like buffalo is 100% to be a win and Toronto was advantage to Atlanta AND cost us a second game If someone made the argument that we went from 65% to 60% I wouldn't fuss about it too much (though with a big back, big WRs, and a qb who's played in weather, they might actually be better built for an weather advantage than dome)
BillnutinHouston Posted December 25, 2013 Posted December 25, 2013 For some reason my quote function is not working, but FireChan sure blew up this thread. He is dead on. This is a sensitive topic for me because although I have moved out of the area, I still support the team through season tickets. I hate not being able to attend most games so it burns me to see whiny, entitled local fans complain about Toronto and then leave seats empty at the Ralph. These will be the same ones voicing their outrage the loudest once the next owner realizes that Buffalo won't give him enough return on his investment. They'll swear that "The Man" did it to them again.
GG Posted December 25, 2013 Posted December 25, 2013 I'd much rather take the team's odds with almost 500 record at home than 1-5 record in that dome. That, and the fact that the players hate the Toronto series, but view it as a necessary evil. As for the predictable tangents, no one is arguing that Bills blew other games as well. But that's not the topic of this thread. If you can't see that the location have an added advantage to that particular opponent then there's no sense debating this thread, because you are arguing a totally different point. And if you insist on hailing OBD for this series to keep the Bills in Buffalo, then you should refresh yourselves on NFL economics. The main benefit the Bills get from the series is generating revenues that don't need to be shared under the CBA. If OBD was as diligent in building a winning program as they have been in trying to improve the revenue base, then they wouldn't need to have the Toronto series.
MDH Posted December 25, 2013 Posted December 25, 2013 I gotta think anyone who doesn't understand why the man is pointing out that a SELF IMPOSED disadvantage could potentially have had negative consequences, is trying really really hard not to get it. No kidding. Some people will argue any point just to argue.
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