The Toronto game may have cost the Bills a shot at the playoffs

[dwight in philly]

I'd much rather take the team's odds with almost 500 record at home than 1-5 record in that dome. That, and the fact that the players hate the Toronto series, but view it as a necessary evil.

 

As for the predictable tangents, no one is arguing that Bills blew other games as well. But that's not the topic of this thread. If you can't see that the location have an added advantage to that particular opponent then there's no sense debating this thread, because you are arguing a totally different point.

 

And if you insist on hailing OBD for this series to keep the Bills in Buffalo, then you should refresh yourselves on NFL economics. The main benefit the Bills get from the series is generating revenues that don't need to be shared under the CBA. If OBD was as diligent in building a winning program as they have been in trying to improve the revenue base, then they wouldn't need to have the Toronto series.

well said! right on the point of the topic.. its not about chandler fumbling or anything else the TO series apologists try to deflect..

[NewEra]

We are the only team in nfl history willing to sell home field advantage. It sucks. Bad. It makes me sick. That being said, if the Toronto games are keeping the franchise in Buffalo, so be it. It's just typical of our beloved franchise.

Edited December 25, 2013 by NewEra

[littlelouie]

I would agree it would be nice to end the Toronto games but it had nothing to do with the Bills missing the playoffs. You're just fishing for excuses. The Bills missed the playoffs because they are not a very good team yet.

[BillnutinHouston]

well said! right on the point of the topic.. its not about chandler fumbling or anything else the TO series apologists try to deflect..

Sorry but wins and losses come down to actual football plays - this cannot be refuted. The Stevie and Chandler fumbles were the key plays that caused the loss. I've yet to hear how playing in Toronto caused those fumbles.

[NoSaint]

We are the only team in nfl history willing to sell home field advantage. It sucks. Bad. It makes me sick. That being said, if the Toronto games are keeping the franchise in Buffalo, so be it. It's just typical of our beloved franchise.

It's not true that were the only one. Look into green bays history of solidifying their fan base, or even teams looking to sign up for London.

[8-8 Forever?]

Admittedly, I don't know where the Bills fall along the tiebreaker spectrum vis-a-vis the five 8-7 and 7-8 AFC teams, but if they had played the Atlanta game in Orchard Park, the Bills would in all likelihood be 7-8 right now. If that was the case, next Sunday's game against NE could be be truly meaningful. Someone needs to raise that with Brandon. The Toronto series has to end.

Yep. the Toronto series hurts the team's chances of winning. Neutral site game best case. But they are signed up for many more years so get over it.

[NoSaint]

 

Yep. the Toronto series hurts the team's chances of winning. Neutral site game best case. But they are signed up for many more years so get over it.

 

If there was only some way we could take that into our own hands.... If only....

[PromoTheRobot]

We are the only team in nfl history willing to sell home field advantage. It sucks. Bad. It makes me sick. That being said, if the Toronto games are keeping the franchise in Buffalo, so be it. It's just typical of our beloved franchise.

 

Jacksonville sells it's games to London.

[djp14150]

Admittedly, I don't know where the Bills fall along the tiebreaker spectrum vis-a-vis the five 8-7 and 7-8 AFC teams, but if they had played the Atlanta game in Orchard Park, the Bills would in all likelihood be 7-8 right now. If that was the case, next Sunday's game against NE could be be truly meaningful. Someone needs to raise that with Brandon. The Toronto series has to end.

 

 

If they beat Atlanta they likely win at Tampa. They were very flat against them.

 

At 7-8 how could they have made the playoffs......

 

W + MIA L + BAL L + PIT L + SD L

 

BUF-BAL-SD tie at 8-8....tiebreaker #1 since nobody beat the other 2 it goes to conference record...BUF & BAL would be 6-6 vs SD 5-7....then it resets to BUF-BAL which BUF wins in a H2H.

 

Had they beat Atlanta, they likely would have beaten Tampa Bay (they wouldnt have been flat) and actually been 8-7 going into this weekend.

 

At 8-7 they would be in 2nd place....for the WC

 

win + SD L

 

BUF loses a tiebreaker to SD based on strength of victory.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

It's not that this loss is more meaningful, it's that the location itself contributed to the loss. In the other losses, players' mistakes contributed to the loss. In Toronto it was the players and the dome location that gave Atlanta the edge.

 

Buffalo doesn't have the same advantage in a dome as any other team? Strange reasoning and magical thinking are fueling the OP's (and others) arguments.

 

Uh, GG's point is that Atlanta plays no fewer than 10 games each season in a dome.

 

What is yours?

[Gray Beard]

Many people say that home field advantage is worth three points. At the end of regulation the score was tied. If this was a home game, the Bills would have been ahead by three at the end of regulation. I tend to buy this logic, but it can't be proven. I also don't think it can be tied to any particular single play (e.g., a fumble, dropped pass, completed pass by the bad guys, etc.)

[NoSaint]

 

 

 

 

Uh, GG's point is that Atlanta plays no fewer than 10 games each season in a dome.

 

What is yours?

 

Weo was clearly saying the lack of wind and good footing should help us too. That it's not something that is a big learning curve to play in.

Edited December 26, 2013 by NoSaint

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Weo was clearly saying the lack of wind and good footing should help us too

 

No WEO clearly wasn't saying that.

 

WEO directly replied to GG and I directly replied to both.

 

In the post I replied to WEO makes no mention of wind and footing so unless I missed something, you're putting words in WEO's mouth.

 

To the actual subject, the fact that Atlanta plays no fewer than 10 (actually no fewer than 9) games each and every season in a domed stadium exacerbates even more the fact that the game isn't played in Ralph Wilson Stadium.

 

It's quite simple.

 

Who benefits from the game being in Toronto instead of in Buffalo? Atlanta.

 

Who benefits more from the game being played in a dome? Atlanta.

 

Does anyone here think that oddsmakers don't take this into account?

 

Here's my take on this conversation (hint: it's like the "opponents coming off bye weeks conversation):

 

What some people won't, can't, or don't qualify their opinions with is this:

 

"I'm sick and tired of the Bills ineptitude so I'm gonna cut them zero slack in any discussion. If they're screwed by the schedule maker, I'm gonna call it excuse making. If they screw themselves by scheduling a game in Toronto, I'm gonna call it excuse making."

 

These people are angry at the Bills and so they can no longer approach a discussion from reason. They're anger causes them to not be honest.

 

I'm also sick and tired of the Bills losing but not to the point that I can't still clearly see that the Bills (regardless of putting themselves in that situation) lose homefield advantage when playing against Atlanta in Toronto.

 

I would have more empathy and respect for a frustrated fan that simply says "They did this to themselves so too bad for them" than a frustrated fan that says "Disadvantage? What disadvantage?"

 

Just because someone is pissed off at the team shouldn't mean that they have to be dishonest.

[NoSaint]

Many people say that home field advantage is worth three points. At the end of regulation the score was tied. If this was a home game, the Bills would have been ahead by three at the end of regulation. I tend to buy this logic, but it can't be proven. I also don't think it can be tied to any particular single play (e.g., a fumble, dropped pass, completed pass by the bad guys, etc.)

 

I just think that if Toronto is being considered 100% nuetral, or as some have argued on this board a home game for the other team.... That's not just on Russ Brandon

[San Jose Bills Fan]

I just think that if Toronto is being considered 100% nuetral, or as some have argued on this board a home game for the other team.... That's not just on Russ Brandon

 

The argument is that the Bills lose homefield advantage.

 

Who said that it's a home game for the other team?

[NoSaint]

 

 

No WEO clearly wasn't saying that.

 

WEO directly replied to GG and I directly replied to both.

 

In the post I replied to WEO makes no mention of wind and footing so unless I missed something, you're putting words in WEO's mouth.

 

To the actual subject, the fact that Atlanta plays no fewer than 10 (actually no fewer than 9) games each and every season in a domed stadium exacerbates even more the fact that the game isn't played in Ralph Wilson Stadium.

 

It's quite simple.

 

Who benefits from the game being in Toronto instead of in Buffalo? Atlanta.

 

Who benefits more from the game being played in a dome? Atlanta.

 

Does anyone here think that oddsmakers don't take this into account?

 

Here's my take on this conversation (hint: it's like the "opponents coming off bye weeks conversation):

 

What some people won't, can't, or don't qualify their opinions with is this:

 

"I'm sick and tired of the Bills ineptitude so I'm gonna cut them zero slack in any discussion. If they're screwed by the schedule maker, I'm gonna call it excuse making. If they screw themselves by scheduling a game in Toronto, I'm gonna call it excuse making."

 

These people are angry at the Bills and so they can no longer approach a discussion from reason. They're anger causes them to not be honest.

 

I'm also sick and tired of the Bills losing but not to the point that I can't still clearly see that the Bills (regardless of putting themselves in that situation) lose homefield advantage when playing against Atlanta in Toronto.

 

I would have more empathy and respect for a frustrated fan that simply says "They did this to themselves so too bad for them" than a frustrated fan that says "Disadvantage? What disadvantage?"

 

Just because someone is pissed off at the team shouldn't mean that they have to be dishonest.

 

But what about the fan saying "they not only lost this game because of location but they lost the next too!" compared to "sure it'd have been better to be at home but lets not get crazy here and pretend its THAT kind of swing in our season."

 

Atlantas qb has played more games in the elements, they have big physical WRs better suited for the elements - sure they'd prefer a dome but frankly they may be as well suited for a game in the outdoors when compared to our roster.

 

Would I rather it at the Ralph? sure. Would I say we lost the game because of it? No. Would I say we lost the following week because of it? Absolutely not.

 

 

 

The argument is that the Bills lose homefield advantage.

 

Who said that it's a home game for the other team?

Through the existence of the series? A lot. With us playing a dome team this year? Even more.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

But what about the fan saying "they not only lost this game because of location but they lost the next too!" compared to "sure it'd have been better to be at home but lets not get crazy here and pretend its THAT kind of swing in our season."

 

Atlantas qb has played more games in the elements, they have big physical WRs better suited for the elements - sure they'd prefer a dome but frankly they may be as well suited for a game in the outdoors when compared to our roster.

 

Would I rather it at the Ralph? sure. Would I say we lost the game because of it? No. Would I say we lost the following week because of it? Absolutely not.

 

I never addressed (nor did the WEO or GG in the posts I replied to) the following week's game so I'm not sure why you're bringing it up here. That's someone else's discussion.

 

As for your second paragraph, we know the Bills players and their fans would prefer the game to be in Orchard Park.

 

I'm not gonna get into a hypothetical about how suited their team is to play in a cold, northerly climate other than to say that they're a dome and southern team playing 9 games in a dome, and a game apiece in Tampa and Charlotte.

 

What would you guess the Atlanta team would do if they could vote on the venue?

Edited December 26, 2013 by San Jose Bills Fan

[BuffaloBill]

 

 

I never addressed (nor did the WEO or GG in the posts I replied to) the following week's game so I'm not sure why you're bringing it up here. That's someone else's discussion.

 

As for your second paragraph, we know the Bills players and their fans would prefer the game to be in Orchard Park.

 

I'm not gonna get into a hypothetical about how suited their team is to play in a cold, northerly climate other than to say that they're a dome and southern team playing 9 games in a dome, and a game apiece in Tampa and Charlotte.

 

What would you guess the Atlanta team would do if they could vote on the venue?

 

This line of discussion is becoming rather tiresome. Points have been made. It is also evident that minds are made up. Might be time to let this one drop. This has gone from discussion to a form of pointless arguing.

 

Fact is the Bills have missed the playoffs. Their entire w-l record contributed to this situation. I think it is also safe to say the vast majority of Bills fans would prefer that the game in Toronto go away. It is not broadly supported. Whether it contributes to the loss of advantage to the team is a moot point.

 

 

 

 

[NoSaint]

 

 

I never addressed (nor did the WEO or GG in the posts I replied to) the following week's game so I'm not sure why you're bringing it up here. That's someone else's discussion.

 

As for your second paragraph, we know the Bills players and their fans would prefer the game to be in Orchard Park.

 

I'm not gonna get into a hypothetical about how suited their team is to play in a cold, northerly climate other than to say that they're a dome and southern team playing 9 games in a dome, and a game apiece in Tampa and Charlotte.

 

What would you guess the Atlanta team would do if they could vote on the venue?

 

SJBF, you know as well as anyone that these discussions dont occur in a vacuum. just because youve chosen which ones you are addressing doesnt mean that those two are the only ones in the conversation, and they arent addressing others or there arent others discussing their points.

 

 

GG has made claims like "the game wouldnt have even been close" that atlanta is "a team that stinks outdoors" so.... i disagree with that premise that the conversation isnt speculating on how the falcons handle the cold. as i said earlier in the thread, if someone wants to argue that the odds of a win dipped from 62% to 58% have at it but to say that the game wouldnt have been close, it was a gimme at the ralph, or (and i know its not yours but many in this conversation have said with certainty) that we wouldve had a 2 game swing is pretty extreme in my opinion and the words of an angry fan not a rational person.

 

if the number one thing is the crowd, go buy tickets people - for all the die hard best in the league talk it surely seems that trip kills a lot of fans. if that game was such a crossroad and the crowd was such a disadvantage, what is the excuse? i know it doesnt work for everyone, but does it really work for nearly no one? or are we so busy showing our displeasure over it that we are sabotaging the team to prove a point? (you in the following being RB) "you wouldve won with a home crowd and you wont get that support from me until you do what i want - and now im going to post about how YOU ruined the season by causing me not to show up" seems to be a pretty big recurring theme that is danced around in this threads.

 

 

 

 

 

This line of discussion is becoming rather tiresome. Points have been made. It is also evident that minds are made up. Might be time to let this one drop. This has gone from discussion to a form of pointless arguing.

 

Fact is the Bills have missed the playoffs. Their entire w-l record contributed to this situation. I think it is also safe to say the vast majority of Bills fans would prefer that the game in Toronto go away. It is not broadly supported. Whether it contributes to the loss of advantage to the team is a moot point.

 

fair enough, and agreed. i think we can all agree its a shame that the discussion has a reason to be had, and we would all prefer a full slate of games at the ralph.

Edited December 26, 2013 by NoSaint

[Big Gun]

Or the fact the bills seemed to play everyone coming off a bye or that played on the prior Thursday. I know excuses are for losers and am not saying those are the reasons the bills lost, but the hand the NFL dealt them sure didn't help as playing games in Toronto didn't help either. They are young and have young new coaches and don't know how to win but they sure have not had one single break aid them at all. Unlike the Patriots who seem to get every single questionable break go in their favor on the field and off.

 

Would be interesting to see where the Bills would be with their record had the NOT played a Toronto game or NOT played god knows how many teams coming off the break. I guarantee you the would be better than their current 6-9 record.

Edited December 26, 2013 by old school