clearwater cadet Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 I don't know if I'm explaining this right, but remember in high school the coach would call a sweep play so the QB would get the snap, toss it to the running back while he is running to the outside and let him either cut it back in or run around the outside. If your a football fan you know what I'm talking about. It seem the way the bills do it is that CJ is 7 yards deep the QB is 5 yards deep. The Qb get the balls, CJ runs up to the QB stops to get the hand off and then tries to start up again. It seem to me that CJ is more effective with the ball in his hands when he is moving and is in a little bit of space, I think he make better choices when he is moving, and trust his ability more when he is moving full speed, and not when he is trying to stop and start up again. I've seen the bills burned by these type of plays time and time again the person running the balls doesn't have half the skill set that CJ has. I'm not looking for 80 yards runs on every snap but I feel he can continues to get 5 to 6 yards a carry if he hits the line full speed with a little space, and every now and then he will find a seam to hit and take it for a big gain. They could even line Freddy and CJ and the field at the same time so the defense can't cheat and think it going to be a quick toss everytime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Hammersticks Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 I don't think the o-line has shown that they can block well enough to make holes on those outside running plays. JMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 probably because the lineman are not mobile enough. Levitre was mobile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 Their fat, slow, short-armed guards can't get out there to block, that's why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsBytheBay Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 (edited) The O line all push one way together in a sweep. No pulling guards, or anything special. I refuse to belive it's just the o line. I don't think Hackett does a good job setting up the defense with play calling. He has a short list he can call for anygiven down and distance. Edited December 23, 2013 by JaxBills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Hammersticks Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 Their fat, slow, short-armed guards can't get out there to block, that's why. If anyone knew the answer to this question it would be you. Pretty much sums up what I have been seeing too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 wasn't there a thread on this a few days ago? Weird that a lot of people have been thinking the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xsoldier54 Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 Spiller showed me yesterday that he will never be an elite running back regardless of what plays you run. He is afraid of contact and runs wide and out of bounds almost every single time he gets the ball regardless of the play call. That play at the end of the first half epitomized C.J. Spiller. All he had to do is go down in bounds and the Bills could have let the play clock run before punting and Miami would have had about 5 seconds left in the half. Instead he gives them the ball near midfield with a minute to play. Very lucky that the D saved his ass. I haven't been happy with his constant attempts to get outside all year and yesterday he was just plain putrid. The Bills should get whatever they can for him in the offseason and move on by picking a RB in the draft. Someone with a bit of toughness that can run north and south instead of constantly running out of bounds. Time to move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Hammersticks Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 Spiller showed me yesterday that he will never be an elite running back regardless of what plays you run. He is afraid of contact and runs wide and out of bounds almost every single time he gets the ball regardless of the play call. That play at the end of the first half epitomized C.J. Spiller. All he had to do is go down in bounds and the Bills could have let the play clock run before punting and Miami would have had about 5 seconds left in the half. Instead he gives them the ball near midfield with a minute to play. Very lucky that the D saved his ass. I haven't been happy with his constant attempts to get outside all year and yesterday he was just plain putrid. The Bills should get whatever they can for him in the offseason and move on by picking a RB in the draft. Someone with a bit of toughness that can run north and south instead of constantly running out of bounds. Time to move on. Spiller is who he is. He's a speed back, who if utilized properly, can be a very good weapon for any offense. He's not an every down power back. Imagine what he would be doing in an offense like New Orleans...utilized similar to Sproles. This notion that we need to get rid of him is silly IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Hammersticks Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 Spiller showed me yesterday that he will never be an elite running back regardless of what plays you run. He is afraid of contact and runs wide and out of bounds almost every single time he gets the ball regardless of the play call. That play at the end of the first half epitomized C.J. Spiller. All he had to do is go down in bounds and the Bills could have let the play clock run before punting and Miami would have had about 5 seconds left in the half. Instead he gives them the ball near midfield with a minute to play. Very lucky that the D saved his ass. I haven't been happy with his constant attempts to get outside all year and yesterday he was just plain putrid. The Bills should get whatever they can for him in the offseason and move on by picking a RB in the draft. Someone with a bit of toughness that can run north and south instead of constantly running out of bounds. Time to move on. Spiller is who he is. He's a speed back, who if utilized properly, can be a very good weapon for any offense. He's not an every down power back. Imagine what he would be doing in an offense like New Orleans...utilized similar to Sproles. This notion that we need to get rid of him is silly IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jukester Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 (edited) Spiller showed me yesterday that he will never be an elite running back regardless of what plays you run. He is afraid of contact and runs wide and out of bounds almost every single time he gets the ball regardless of the play call. That play at the end of the first half epitomized C.J. Spiller. All he had to do is go down in bounds and the Bills could have let the play clock run before punting and Miami would have had about 5 seconds left in the half. Instead he gives them the ball near midfield with a minute to play. Very lucky that the D saved his ass. I haven't been happy with his constant attempts to get outside all year and yesterday he was just plain putrid. The Bills should get whatever they can for him in the offseason and move on by picking a RB in the draft. Someone with a bit of toughness that can run north and south instead of constantly running out of bounds. Time to move on. I don't know about trading him but I agree with you on everything else. He’s a classic sideline hound. His first thought is to always run for the edge and after 3 years he still doesn’t get it. Yes, he’ll spring one once in a while but it’s so infuriating to watch him try to outrun people to the sideline 85-90% of the time. :wallbash: No instincts/vision to cut back against the grain. How many plays for losses has he had this year because he’s running sideways. There are times when you have to take the 2-3 yarders. Watching Freddie cut it up the field and make holes where there are none and keep the chains moving was nice. Fred should be our featured back and Spiller is good for a change of pace, that’s it. Running out of bounds at the end of the half yesterday was brainless and epitomizes Spiller’s time here. If I were Marrone or the running backs coach I would challenge spiller to go 5 plays in a row without running sideways and out of bounds. I can’t fathom how they haven’t corrected this tendency all year. Injury or not, I see major regression from Spiller this year. Oh and to address the OP, sweep plays would exacerbate the situation because Spiller rarely makes a decisive cut back. He likes to tippy-toe and juke to find a hole rather than seeing the holes develop and make that hard cut back up the field. Sweeps would just get him closer to the sideline. Edited December 23, 2013 by Jukester Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodeMonkey Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 Spiller is who he is. He's a speed back, who if utilized properly, can be a very good weapon for any offense. He's not an every down power back. Imagine what he would be doing in an offense like New Orleans...utilized similar to Sproles. This notion that we need to get rid of him is silly IMO. If the Bills can't/won't utilize a "speed back" as you call him, then what is the point of keeping him? Keeping him in that scenario would be the silly thing IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fergie's ire Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 I think the belief that Spiller gets his yardage on outside runs is a bit of a myth. In the Cincinnati game, for example, when Spiller was routinely running the ball for 8-12 yards, he would go through the line between guard and tackle and THEN bounce it outside. It is only at the second level that he would run to the outside. Linebackers, and even linemen, are so fast at the NFL level that if a running back runs parallel to the line of scrimmage, he is doomed to be tackled for a loss (as Spiller seems happy to demonstrate repeatedly). A toss-sweep (as described by the o.p.) can be effective, but usually in goal-line and short yardage situations when the defense is bunched in the middle expecting a power run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machine gun kelly Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 I think the belief that Spiller gets his yardage on outside runs is a bit of a myth. In the Cincinnati game, for example, when Spiller was routinely running the ball for 8-12 yards, he would go through the line between guard and tackle and THEN bounce it outside. It is only at the second level that he would run to the outside. Linebackers, and even linemen, are so fast at the NFL level that if a running back runs parallel to the line of scrimmage, he is doomed to be tackled for a loss (as Spiller seems happy to demonstrate repeatedly). A toss-sweep (as described by the o.p.) can be effective, but usually in goal-line and short yardage situations when the defense is bunched in the middle expecting a power run. You just answered this guy's question. Good safeties and LB will almost always catch even fast RB's running laterally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xsoldier54 Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 I think the belief that Spiller gets his yardage on outside runs is a bit of a myth. In the Cincinnati game, for example, when Spiller was routinely running the ball for 8-12 yards, he would go through the line between guard and tackle and THEN bounce it outside. It is only at the second level that he would run to the outside. Linebackers, and even linemen, are so fast at the NFL level that if a running back runs parallel to the line of scrimmage, he is doomed to be tackled for a loss (as Spiller seems happy to demonstrate repeatedly). A toss-sweep (as described by the o.p.) can be effective, but usually in goal-line and short yardage situations when the defense is bunched in the middle expecting a power run. Did you watch the game yesterday? Spiller is a kitty who loathes contact of any kind. He should not be featured in this offense, only a bit player. And if he won't turn upfield instead of running out of bounds at every opportunity then he needs to sit his ass down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Hammersticks Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 (edited) Did you watch the game yesterday? Spiller is a kitty who loathes contact of any kind. He should not be featured in this offense, only a bit player. And if he won't turn upfield instead of running out of bounds at every opportunity then he needs to sit his ass down. 1244 yards and 6 TDs for Spiller last season. What has changed? New coaching staff. New offensive scheme. Inconsistent offensive line play, especially LG and RT. Rookie QB who has been injured. There are a lot of things to consider here before placing all of the blame squarely on Spiller's shoulders. Miopic thinking if you ask me. Yeah, let's just trade him away for a 4th rounder. Great idea folks. Edited December 23, 2013 by Johnny Hammersticks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xsoldier54 Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 (edited) 1244 yards and 6 TDs for Spiller last season. What has changed? New coaching staff. New offensive scheme. Inconsistent offensive line play, especially LG and RT. Rookie QB who has been injured. There are a lot of things to consider here before placing all of the blame squarely on Spiller's shoulders. Miopic thinking if you ask me. Yeah, let's just trade him away for a 4th rounder. Great idea folks. One good season does not make him an All Pro. I ask again, did you watch yesterday's game and have you been watching him THIS YEAR? He shows no desire to do anything except head for the sideline at every possible opportunity. He has regressed this year and the coaching has nothing to do with it. Neither does the play calling. Freddie had no trouble yesterday grinding out yardage and eating up precious clock at the same time. Spiller will NEVER be an elite back. He doesn't have the heart for it. I realize you like him, but I have no stake in it whatsoever. I want him to succeed, but what I saw yesterday was pathetic. It is not the first time I have felt this way and I am not alone. You can call it short sighted if you want, but I am only commenting on what I see. If he is of no use to this offense, then get rid of him and draft someone who will be more productive in this offense. Edited December 23, 2013 by xsoldier54 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 One good season does not make him an All Pro. I ask again, did you watch yesterday's game and have you been watching him THIS YEAR? He shows no desire to do anything except head for the sideline at every possible opportunity. He has regressed this year and the coaching has nothing to do with it. Neither does the play calling. Freddie had no trouble yesterday grinding out yardage and eating up precious clock at the same time. Spiller will NEVER be an elite back. He doesn't have the heart for it. I realize you like him, but I have no stake in it whatsoever. I want him to succeed, but what I saw yesterday was pathetic. It is not the first time I have felt this way and I am not alone. You can call it short sighted if you want, but I am only commenting on what I see. If he is of no use to this offense, then get rid of him and draft someone who will be more productive in this offense. I think they keep him but don't re-sign him. I like the idea of trying anything other than the shotgun sweep play... It never works well and rarely works at all. I'd like to see spiller on kick offs and PRs as mck is solid enough at corner, no need to risk an injury on a special teams play. I love to Use spiller situationally as a third down back but he can't pass protect so well... He's really just the same gadget player he was at Clemson ultimately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Hammersticks Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 One good season does not make him an All Pro. I ask again, did you watch yesterday's game and have you been watching him THIS YEAR? He shows no desire to do anything except head for the sideline at every possible opportunity. He has regressed this year and the coaching has nothing to do with it. Neither does the play calling. Freddie had no trouble yesterday grinding out yardage and eating up precious clock at the same time. Spiller will NEVER be an elite back. He doesn't have the heart for it. I realize you like him, but I have no stake in it whatsoever. I want him to succeed, but what I saw yesterday was pathetic. It is not the first time I have felt this way and I am not alone. You can call it short sighted if you want, but I am only commenting on what I see. If he is of no use to this offense, then get rid of him and draft someone who will be more productive in this offense. Buffalo has the #2 rushing offense in the NFL. You want to be rid of Spiller, who is a major part of that, and then waste a draft pick on a RB (when we have much more pressing needs). Glad you're not the Bills' GM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 probably because the lineman are not mobile enough. Levitre was mobile. I agree with this. That was the best part of Levitre's game. It's also why he is overrated here. He's not a good straight ahead blocker. But he is very good in space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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