1billsfan Posted December 23, 2013 Posted December 23, 2013 And if Thad plays next week and the Bills crush NE? Then what? Certainly propel Lewis to "cult hero" status...LOL Manuel is going to be given next year to establish himself as the Bills franchise QB no matter what Lewis does against the Pats. That's how it works in the NFL when you spend a 1st round pick on a QB.
LB3 Posted December 24, 2013 Posted December 24, 2013 (edited) And if Thad plays next week and the Bills crush NE? Then what? That's easy. He'll be revered like most back up QB's. As a child, I was convinced that Frank Reich was better than Jim Kelly. There was no way my parents and their friends could be wrong about it (cus they're old and stuff). I can still remember all of the "The Reich Stuff" t shirts and memorabilia...Aah memories. Edited December 24, 2013 by KikoSeeBallKikoGetBall
BADOLBILZ Posted December 24, 2013 Posted December 24, 2013 (edited) As long as he stays healthy, it's logical to think that Manuel at 26 will be a QB who's several levels better than what Lewis is today. Sometimes players get better..........sometimes their weaknesses get exposed. During their time with the Bills the latter happened to: Rob Johnson........teams learned he would hold onto the ball and was susceptible to injury so they attacked him more aggressively Doug Flutie..........defenses learned that they could render him ineffective by containing him in the pocket and making him stand in and make throws Drew Bledsoe......his career changed when teams realized that he feared pressure up the middle....his inability to move and throw outside the pocket brought a potential HOF career to a halt. JP Losman..........he went from an effective play action passer as a first year starter to an overnight failure when teams realized he couldn't read defenses and struggled with accuracy on short throws Trent Edwards......his unwillingness to stand in and throw the ball downfiled lead to defenses jumping short routes and rendering him useless Ryan Fitzpatrick.....he was intially able to cover up his inability to complete deep passes by not relentlessly checking down like Edwards did.......but eventually his lack of control of the deep ball lead to teams not respecting the deep throw and squatting on the short stuff EJ has a number of weaknesses and opponents are going to work to expose those. So I don't think it is logical to assume he will just get better. Hasn't been the case with any of those other guys. I didn't put Kelly Holcomb in there because he was already a rich-man's Trent Edwards when he got to Buffalo. Edited December 24, 2013 by BADOLBEELZ
FireChan Posted December 24, 2013 Posted December 24, 2013 Yes, seriously. The difference between being a starting NFL QB who's being counted on to perform well enough to get his team into the playoffs and that of a 3 year journeyman QB who's coming off the bench with literally no expectations of playing well from fans is an enormous difference. I like Thad and I think he'll be a very good backup to EJ, but Thad's pressure of earning a backup job on an NFL team is no where near the heightened amount of pressure on EJ Manuel. Even if Thad has to start this next game it's all gravy for him. If Lewis plays bad then it's completely ok because he's Thad Lewis "backup QB" playing on the road against Tom Brady and the Pats. However, if EJ Manuel starts and plays bad he's not going to get any slack at all because that's how it works in the NFL. Having pointed this difference out, Manuel will either deal with the pressure well or he won't and he'll be gone in a couple of years like former FSU QB Christian Ponder. More like if Thad plays bad, he might not be getting a paycheck next year. If anything EJ has less pressure on him knowing he can look forward to next season. Thad doesn't have that luxury.
3rdand12 Posted December 24, 2013 Posted December 24, 2013 Sometimes players get better..........sometimes their weaknesses get exposed. During their time with the Bills the latter happened to: Rob Johnson........teams learned he would hold onto the ball and was susceptible to injury so they attacked him more aggressively Doug Flutie..........defenses learned that they could render him ineffective by containing him in the pocket and making him stand in and make throws Drew Bledsoe......his career changed when teams realized that he feared pressure up the middle....his inability to move and throw outside the pocket brought a potential HOF career to a halt. JP Losman..........he went from an effective play action passer as a first year starter to an overnight failure when teams realized he couldn't read defenses and struggled with accuracy on short throws Trent Edwards......his unwillingness to stand in and throw the ball downfiled lead to defenses jumping short routes and rendering him useless Ryan Fitzpatrick.....he was intially able to cover up his inability to complete deep passes by not relentlessly checking down like Edwards did.......but eventually his lack of control of the deep ball lead to teams not respecting the deep throw and squatting on the short stuff EJ has a number of weaknesses and opponents are going to work to expose those. So I don't think it is logical to assume he will just get better. Hasn't been the case with any of those other guys. I didn't put Kelly Holcomb in there because he was already a rich-man's Trent Edwards when he got to Buffalo. oh the humanity ! I cringe reliving the truisms. You bastard BOB . good night to you
YoloinOhio Posted December 24, 2013 Posted December 24, 2013 Bill, as an o-line guy, surprised you didn't mention the game that Wood had today - one of the best I've ever seen. Urbik was a force as well. Wood had a great block on Fred's TD!
Boatdrinks Posted December 24, 2013 Posted December 24, 2013 And if Thad plays next week and the Bills crush NE? Then what? If he starts and the Bills win with an incredible display of Defense, or by some fluky ST type deal (like a couple return TD's) or Brady is knocked out of the game, then I'd say great job filling in. If he truly plays impressively and the Bills win a shootout with Tom Brady, I would at least pencil him in as my starter for 2014. The bad news is, this will not happen.
smuvtalker Posted December 24, 2013 Posted December 24, 2013 If he starts and the Bills win with an incredible display of Defense, or by some fluky ST type deal (like a couple return TD's) or Brady is knocked out of the game, then I'd say great job filling in. If he truly plays impressively and the Bills win a shootout with Tom Brady, I would at least pencil him in as my starter for 2014. The bad news is, this will not happen. Stranger things have happened....it is possible!!! Either way though, I believe the job is EJ's even if Thad goes out and throws for 400 yards and 4 td's. One game does not a starter make. (see Rob Johnson) With that said, I would not be at all surprised to see the Bills go QB with their first pick, if one of the studs is there for the taking....Heck the Redskins did it with RG3 and Cousins, and look how gorgeously that has worked out for them!!
thewildrabbit Posted December 24, 2013 Posted December 24, 2013 Sometimes players get better..........sometimes their weaknesses get exposed. During their time with the Bills the latter happened to: Rob Johnson........teams learned he would hold onto the ball and was susceptible to injury so they attacked him more aggressively Doug Flutie..........defenses learned that they could render him ineffective by containing him in the pocket and making him stand in and make throws Drew Bledsoe......his career changed when teams realized that he feared pressure up the middle....his inability to move and throw outside the pocket brought a potential HOF career to a halt. JP Losman..........he went from an effective play action passer as a first year starter to an overnight failure when teams realized he couldn't read defenses and struggled with accuracy on short throws Trent Edwards......his unwillingness to stand in and throw the ball downfiled lead to defenses jumping short routes and rendering him useless Ryan Fitzpatrick.....he was intially able to cover up his inability to complete deep passes by not relentlessly checking down like Edwards did.......but eventually his lack of control of the deep ball lead to teams not respecting the deep throw and squatting on the short stuff EJ has a number of weaknesses and opponents are going to work to expose those. So I don't think it is logical to assume he will just get better. Hasn't been the case with any of those other guys. I didn't put Kelly Holcomb in there because he was already a rich-man's Trent Edwards when he got to Buffalo. And look at the people who were developing those QB's... HoF coach Bill Walsh stated it usually takes 4 years to properly develop a QB. So, can we give EJ more then 10 games?
Bill from NYC Posted December 24, 2013 Author Posted December 24, 2013 Wish granted. Good call. You know what they say about blind squirrels..... This was a superior move, one frankly I didn't expect. I don't even know the contract numbers and I don't care. The Bills have tons of cap space.
Chandler#81 Posted December 24, 2013 Posted December 24, 2013 And look at the people who were developing those QB's... HoF coach Bill Walsh stated it usually takes 4 years to properly develop a QB. So, can we give EJ more then 10 games? 10 games. Hmmm. At his current rate of time missed to injury, that's gonna take 3 seasons..
HankBulloughMellencamp Posted December 24, 2013 Posted December 24, 2013 Sometimes players get better..........sometimes their weaknesses get exposed. During their time with the Bills the latter happened to: Rob Johnson........teams learned he would hold onto the ball and was susceptible to injury so they attacked him more aggressively Doug Flutie..........defenses learned that they could render him ineffective by containing him in the pocket and making him stand in and make throws Drew Bledsoe......his career changed when teams realized that he feared pressure up the middle....his inability to move and throw outside the pocket brought a potential HOF career to a halt. JP Losman..........he went from an effective play action passer as a first year starter to an overnight failure when teams realized he couldn't read defenses and struggled with accuracy on short throws Trent Edwards......his unwillingness to stand in and throw the ball downfiled lead to defenses jumping short routes and rendering him useless Ryan Fitzpatrick.....he was intially able to cover up his inability to complete deep passes by not relentlessly checking down like Edwards did.......but eventually his lack of control of the deep ball lead to teams not respecting the deep throw and squatting on the short stuff EJ has a number of weaknesses and opponents are going to work to expose those. So I don't think it is logical to assume he will just get better. Hasn't been the case with any of those other guys. Fantastic post. I worry that the book on EJ has already been written by Sexy Rexy (in the Meadowlands), and copied by Pitt and Tampa ... extreme overload pressure whereby he does not ever make them pay by hitting one-on-one matchups quickly. And I understand that the guy has had some knee issues. But his athleticism has not translated into any real scrambling ability/threat thus far. He is quite awkward when he takes off ... almost as awkward as when Jimbo used to run and it was like a car wreck waiting to happen. There is not a doubt in my mind that EJ will be a guy who is continually dinged up and missing time --- these NFL guys close very fast and he doesn't really protect himself. We need to get someone else cooking on the roster. I don't want to just play out the string in 2014 if EJ is again hit and miss and injured.
Dibs Posted December 24, 2013 Posted December 24, 2013 ..... I worry that the book on EJ has already been written by Sexy Rexy (in the Meadowlands)..... Didn't EJ have his best game of the season against Sexy Rexy?
BigBuff423 Posted December 24, 2013 Posted December 24, 2013 ...what? Winning games at the end of the season, when the Bills are already eliminated, only worsens the team draft position for 2014. Winning meaningless December games mean nothing next season. I'm sorry but in all due respect, that is just inane thinking...especially considering the BILLS will be playing the Pats at New England. This team needs to change....the culture....of losing!! A few draft picks in the 1st round is nowhere near the value of teaching the winning mentality to a young group of players and especially in a new coaching regime. There needs to be an understanding that every single game has value and it is difficult to teach that or hope that such comprehension is granted when it WILL matter...you instill this thinking NOW! And then when it is important, your team will draw on such winning character. This is an important game coming up...not for draft projections, but for the future.
dave mcbride Posted December 24, 2013 Posted December 24, 2013 (edited) Sometimes players get better..........sometimes their weaknesses get exposed. During their time with the Bills the latter happened to: Rob Johnson........teams learned he would hold onto the ball and was susceptible to injury so they attacked him more aggressively Doug Flutie..........defenses learned that they could render him ineffective by containing him in the pocket and making him stand in and make throws Drew Bledsoe......his career changed when teams realized that he feared pressure up the middle....his inability to move and throw outside the pocket brought a potential HOF career to a halt. JP Losman..........he went from an effective play action passer as a first year starter to an overnight failure when teams realized he couldn't read defenses and struggled with accuracy on short throws Trent Edwards......his unwillingness to stand in and throw the ball downfiled lead to defenses jumping short routes and rendering him useless Ryan Fitzpatrick.....he was intially able to cover up his inability to complete deep passes by not relentlessly checking down like Edwards did.......but eventually his lack of control of the deep ball lead to teams not respecting the deep throw and squatting on the short stuff EJ has a number of weaknesses and opponents are going to work to expose those. So I don't think it is logical to assume he will just get better. Hasn't been the case with any of those other guys. I didn't put Kelly Holcomb in there because he was already a rich-man's Trent Edwards when he got to Buffalo. Awesome post. Interesting thing about Bledsoe -- I didn't realize how little he was sacked in his first four seasons. A sub-4 percent rate is really low, and under 5 percent is good too. To sustain it over three seasons is impressive. Of course, he had some good coaches. After 1996, he was never under 5 percent again. Of course, his nadir came with the Bills (9.4 percent in 03). http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BledDr00.htm Edited December 24, 2013 by dave mcbride
HankBulloughMellencamp Posted December 24, 2013 Posted December 24, 2013 (edited) Didn't EJ have his best game of the season against Sexy Rexy? It takes time to adapt to the NFL game for nearly every QB. And yes, EJ played pretty well in the home win over the Jets, although the windblown TD to Graham coulda woulda shoulda been picked. But I am most concerned with his lack of production in those road debacles like Tampa, Pitt and against the Jets in the Meadowlands. I can count on one hand the number of strikes he has delivered with his whole body into the throw. And I am tired of all the high-arcing floaters that fall incomplete as he throws as if his right and left shoelaces are tied together. I like your quote, and have dreams of him being the guy, but he's gotta step his game up. I really hope I am wrong, but other than the fact that he was our first-round pick, I see very little evidence that gives me confidence he can magically put it all together and be a franchise guy other than he looks the part. I really don't care if he can light up a room upon entry, I want to see him light up a defense or two ... preferably on the road. Edited December 24, 2013 by HankBulloughMellencamp
thewildrabbit Posted December 24, 2013 Posted December 24, 2013 10 games. Hmmm. At his current rate of time missed to injury, that's gonna take 3 seasons.. The injuries are a concern. Perhaps some knee braces to help, along with less running. Upgrading that line would be a big help.
Bill from NYC Posted December 24, 2013 Author Posted December 24, 2013 The injuries are a concern. Perhaps some knee braces to help, along with less running. Upgrading that line would be a big help. Upgrading an offensive line is never bad, but I disagree wrt less running. In fact, I hope that he works to improve his running, to include called qb draws as well as making the decision to take off earlier. There is no reason to nursemaid him. The chances of him being an elite QB exist, but they are far from great. EJ needs to utilize every weapon that he has to excel in this league. That said, I hope to see Lewis start on Sunday because imo, he gives us a better chance to win the football game. Jmo.
HankBulloughMellencamp Posted December 24, 2013 Posted December 24, 2013 (edited) Upgrading an offensive line is never bad, but I disagree wrt less running. In fact, I hope that he works to improve his running, to include called qb draws as well as making the decision to take off earlier. There is no reason to nursemaid him. The chances of him being an elite QB exist, but they are far from great. EJ needs to utilize every weapon that he has to excel in this league. That said, I hope to see Lewis start on Sunday because imo, he gives us a better chance to win the football game. Jmo. Great point, and let me say that I love your threads/insights. EJ's scrambling should really be an asset, but that has not been the case so far. Good scramblers are very frustrating to defend. Aaron Rodgers comes to mind. And from what I saw last night, SF is using Kaepernick's take-off-and-run skills to help keep the chains moving and the defense guessing. And I agree that any thought of restricting EJ to pocket-only passing would effectively reduce his options and effectiveness, and ultimately bring out the punt team even more often. So, if EJ's pocket presence, passing mechanics, and scrambling abilities all improve, I do think he can be the guy we have always wanted. But I really can't see that happening with the information I have available to me at this time. This isn't Children's Hospital ... wishing and hoping just isn't going to get it done. Edited December 24, 2013 by HankBulloughMellencamp
Bufcomments Posted December 24, 2013 Posted December 24, 2013 Bill.....I'm with ya on Thad. So far he played against Cinny, N.O. Miami Twice. 2 wins vs Fish and 2 losses to playoff teams. Want to see Thad play Sunday not EJ. There I said it and sticking to it. Robey is my fav Bills player this year. Woods should have known better, I bet Marrone cussed him out on that one. Sack record plus some...yay. We not that far away and I am confident that Wailey goes out and get HIS QB, not one Buddy drafted for him. Off-season is gonna be hella interesting for sure.
Recommended Posts